As regards the match yesterday, you knew who was going to win when the camera panned passed the two teams during their anthems.
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As regards the match yesterday, you knew who was going to win when the camera panned passed the two teams during their anthems.
After 24 hours to reflect here are my tournament player ratings, for whatever its worth.
Dempsey - 5. Does what it says on the tin. Not good enough for modern rugby unfortunately.
Murphy - 5. Only got one real run (travesty) and he tried a lot, but not a lot came off.
Horgan - 3. Came in to the tournament injured and never looked fit. Nothing of note.
O'Driscoll - 7. As a captain, leads by example rather than by motivation. Our only World Class player.
D'Arcy - 1. Has there ever been a more dramatic loss of form? Has outshone BO'D over the last 2 years. Played like a mannequin throughout the tournament.
Trimble - 3. May have a future for Ireland.......at centre. Terrible decision to play him on the wing. Not nearly enough pace.
Hickie - 5. Some good, some bad, always tried, not nearly physical nor clinical enough for the top sides. Still, what a wonderful career.
O'Gara - 1. The man clearly has something on his mind. Sad to see him shown up so badly against Hernandez, that was O'Gara a few years ago.
Stringer - 2. A quick pass isn't the only pre-requisite to be a great 9. But hard to play behind an outmuscled pack.
Redden - 4. Acceptable against France, ponderous against Argentina. Deserves a run in the team.
Horan - 3. Plays in spite of his scrummaging (or lack of it), which means when he isn't performing in the loose he's as useful as a chocolate teapot.
Flannery - 4. Good to see him back. Put it about in the loose but lineout malfunctioned badly. Hard to know who's fault that was.
R Best - 4. See Dempsey above.
Hayes - 4. Scrummaged well. Nothing else.
O'Callaghan - 2. Truly abysmal in all facets.
O'Connell - 4. Huffed and puffed, looked himself on a few occasions, but the reality is that he hasn't improved his game since before the last Lions tour.
Easterby - 5. Performs reasonably well for a limited player. Hard to justify having a player in the modern game who touches the ball twice a match.
N Best - 5. Lots of intensity, no real direction. Needs to channel the agression in a meaningful manner to become an international backrower.
D Wallace - 2. Invisible Man No1.
D Leamy - 2. Invisible Man No2.
Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadend
I thought it was more to do with Argentina being considerably better at pretty much every part of the game than Ireland.
Well since you've completely missed my point, the Argentinians looked absolutely fired up to the last during the anthem while Ireland looked non-plussed about the impending game. Better teams don't always win but when you have the passion to back up your skill you definitely will.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
You missed my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadend
Passion is overrated in professional sports.
If you go back to the last time we beat Argentina, I'd hazard a guess our lads looked pretty similar at the anthem.
Correlation = pretty close to zero.
I'd prefer to concentrate on the real reasons we underperformed.
The anthem is a non issue being stoked by people with a certain degree of sectarian bias imo. Being too fired up can be as much a problem given how important discipline is in the modern game. The Argentinian game plan is based on disciplined, controlled agression, not some anthem driven adrenaline rush.
Not saying Irelands Call isn't brutal, plenty of cross community traditional songs that could've been used, but it's an equally brutal excuse. Or perhaps more an excuse to bash the IRFU from some who reveal in partition sports, or sports that draw support from just one community on the Island.
As for the players, I'm really not sure whether it's the players past their best or simply our game plan has been well and truely found out. I'm always likely to concentrate on the forwards as a front rower in my youth, but the backs can only function if the pack is functioning. At line out we failed to hit our man consistently enough, and totally failed to challenge anyone else's ball. At ruck time we failed to secure our own ball, and never looked like turning over - we never got there in the numbers or with the zeal of other much more limited nations. Scrum has been poor for a long time - they need to start feeding Horan full irish with a dash of creatine 6 times a day. Everybody elses pack has got more heavy weight since the last would cup, whereas ours is lighter and we still don't pick the old style back rowers like Gleeson who can still turnover ball. The pack needs more Gym time! We need to poach a scrum coach from somewhere asap.
With almost every Irish player involved in selling everything from suits, mobile phones, drinks, jewellery to feckin wavin pipe - its no wonder we have performed so poorly in this world cup - lots of players have clearly taken thier eye off the prize and with all the fame and fortune attached to professional sport these days its clear to me the team were not as motivated as they should have been pre and early tournament and when things went wrong the management were incapable of turning things around.
The Irish rugby teams dreadful perfomance in this world cup is down with the IRFU's failure to identify that players need the mental aspect of thier lives stable as well as the playing aspect stable. some of these players have gotten very wealthy very quickly and it has clearly taken the edge from thier desire to do what they set out to do as professional athletes at the start of thier careers. How else do you explain to amazingly dramatic loss in form of some of our key players? Ronan O'Gara and Gordon D'Arcy are the two most prominent examples of two fine footballers who have amazingly fell completly out of form. Gordon D'arcy took the ball into contact very single time he recieved the ball yesterday - while O'Gara's perfomance from one of the world's finest kickers yesterday just makes me sad. A talent like his deserves to be in a world cup semi final.
Contrast our situation with that of Argentina. Supremely motivated and a wonderfully well drilled side. These lads didn't take thier eye off the ball - tactically assured and competent in all areas of the game. Superb at the basics of rugby, - scrum, lineout, ruck and with 3 guys immeadiatly behind the scrum with the talent to make maximum use of all the great possession they got. But the technical side of the game aside - it was thier motivation which gave these an edge over us. Actually not an edge - they beat us double scores, but the cause they were fighting for - to put themselves on the map for once and for all. And surely yesterday they achieved that - they will surely be involved in some competition from next year on, on the basis of this world cup.
As for Ireland - lets hope we can re-discover our cause and maybe win a grand slam - if the current crop are not willing then - its time to give the the next batch the jersey, see what they can do.
Thank God someone else can see this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
The anthem issue is mentioned mostly by non-rugby people who have jumped on the bandwagon and have no sense of what Irish rugby is or stands for.
As you say Macy, Ireland's Call is a mediocre song and is a compromise in the same way as the new South African anthem.
But to somehow seek to link the non-singing of Amhrán na bhFiann to our performances is ridiculous in the extreme.
As a nation we don't sing our anthem loudly in any sport. Soccer is possibly the loudest, but its mumbled through and cheered over in the GAA where overfamiliarity has lessened its importance. In Lansdowne Ireland's Call is always sung louder than Amhrán na bhFiann.
In my view this is simply because whilst Ireland's Call is twee and pompous, its a more upbeat song. Amhrán na bhFiann isn't particularly high tempo and isn't designed to be belted from the rooftops the way la Marsellaise or the Italian anthem is.
I think you might be confused as to what amounts to a good question in isolation and what amounts to a good question that will lead to a worthwhile answer. I would prefer an incisive question rather than some pointless petty dig at the manager, but clearly others wanted the opposite, fair enough, but I don't see how that's any way constructive. I'm surprised you would have asked such a futile tabloidy question though, you could get across the vitriol the nation felt and try get something out of O'Sullivan with one meaningful broadsheety question. Whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Good post on the players by the way. D'Arcy's loss of form was stupefying, where once he made five yards more than he should have he now goes two yards backwards. How the hell did that happen? As for the general shyteness, I know it's a crap excuse but in hindsight playing the two weaker teams first definitely came against us. I think we were too complacent in the build-up as we knew we had those two five-point bankers to ease our way into the tournament, peaking nicely for the important games. Or so the theory went at least.
You still don't get what I'm saying. It doesn't matter if it was the anthem or Irelands call, the anthem is NOT the issue. It was the overall look of a team who didn't seem to care one way or the other. It was proven somewhat after the match as not one of them looked upset over going out. Of course they weren't not one of them can say they gave their all at any stage in the tournament.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
I try not to chime in on comments about journalism on Foot.ie but I'm willing to make an exception here. Professionally it was an excellent question as it didn't just inquire as to O'Sullivan's tenability in the position but also brought into context the albatross that is the contract extension which is an important part of the story.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdom hoop
Incidentally she wasn't from Setanta. It was Sinead Kissane from TV3, Setanta carried the interview as well hence the confusion, I think they also carried ITV's interview as there were three interviews with O'Sullivan shown on Setanta post-game.
But what was the point of asking it to O'Sullivan straight after the match when it was obvious he wasn't going to bite? (Though he did have a snarly look on his face!) I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm still just genuinely wondering what benefit there was to asking the question, we all know it was wrong to give him a new contract, what's the point in asking the man who is gaining most from the faux pas if that decision needs to be revised? (thanks for making an exception for me by the way, your expertise is most welcome!)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aberdonian Stu
Good point. SA are forced to take some token players & it does not seem to affect them, Ireland clearly not coping so well with their token players ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
I do not expect great analysis from the media as most of them are far too close to the current players & manager to a lesser extent. I do not expect them to criticise their friends too harshly. Short of winning the 6 Nations Championship I think this World Cup will tarnish the International careers of many of those players.
I suspect a fair few players have played their last games for Ireland? When are the IRFU contracts up for renewal as? Hayes, O'Kelly, Hickie (already retired), Carney, Quinlan, Sheahan & maybe Easterby as all on the far side of 30...
There weren't any yesterday to blame :D On that subject, where are the clowns who said earlier in the thread that at least one Ulster player/Protestant has to play in the starting XV?!?!Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Depends on what you consider biting. Asking the question is often almost as important as the answer in order to elicit some response from him in public. If he no comments or says all is well then or even delivers the snarly look he he gave yesterday then that is an answer in itself and there was no better time to ask it then when the bitter failure of Ireland's World Cup adventure and the implications of the investment in O'Sullivan are at their mostly grimly obvious and there is no better man to ask than the prime beneficiary of the faux pas.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdom hoop
I believe its been revised to "one player born in the United Kingdom"Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Easterby is that man ;)
maybe, but if they cant even get ireland's national anthem to be played, then you cant expect much, can you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Thank you! That, finally, makes some sense of it. I suppose I was basing my notion on the fact that his response revealed nothing to me, so it seemed like a silly question. But I understand the logic now so it doesn't seem quite so inane. I don't think I would have asked it all the same though. I think I'd have tied in something like; 'What do you say to those watching to reassure them your new contract wasn't the biggest feck up ever/prematurely awarded....' In my opinion her question was just a bit too gauchely cutting. But that's just me being a nit-picking w*nker, sorry Sinéad!Quote:
Originally Posted by Aberdonian Stu
Who are the token players for South Africa?Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Habana? Pietersen? Hardly token players, either of them.
Have you read any of whats gone before or did you just choose to ignore it?Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
I've followed the Irish rugby team for 20 years and I can tell you whats on the mind of most genuine rugby fans this morning, yesterday evening and indeed over the last few weeks wasn't the bloody anthem.
If you have a problem with the anthem, suggest you bring it up with your club, who will raise it at provincial council and onwards to the IRFU.......