Kazakhstan V Republic of Ireland - Friday, 7th September 2012 - World Cup 2014 Q

The Kazakh players were not technically better than ours. We have better technical players who could pass them off the park easily if they had been instilled with the cultural inclination to do so. Passing and moving is not some bizarre foreign import - every 6 year old learns how to do it - but you have to actually exercise that on a weekly basis and be entrusted by the manager to do so. It's fairly clear from the Kazakh game that our players are caught in two minds about what they're supposed to be doing, which is why you see St Ledger hoofing the ball when McCarthy has come short, or O'Shea bashing it long to Walters when Cox is in acres down the line.

Too true. There are a lot of changes needed but we all know Trap won't make them.

That's the problem with the guy. He's way too stubborn. Just look at Whelan. The lad barely shows for the ball, is as slow as a wet week and doesn't have an ounce of leadership in him.

The team is lacking leadership and has no defence - all four of the lads at the back could be replaced. Perhaps keep Sledge and let the other three go. Wilson should be the left back hands down. Coleman should come in at right back and Dunne and Sledge (I would even go for Andrews as a partner for Dunne as he has all the attributes of a good defender).

Work on from there with McCarthy bossing proceedings in the middle and McGeady Long and Doyle all featuring. Walters too perhaps, but Robbie is not past it, he's way past it. Time to build a new ball playing team.

It's probably been mentioned already, but as bad as the tactics (or lack of) were last night. There didn't seem to be any leadership on the pitch.
No one was willing to take control of the game or even attempt too.
Our "leaders" Keane, Whelan, O'Shea were probably the worst players on the pitch.

Keith Andrews "Few positives but we still won": http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...on-206938.html

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Originally Posted by Zizou

More like anyone who is sad and pathetic enough to pick the bones out of a win, like anyone on here actually knows better than Trap. The lot of you make me laugh. Keyboard experts.. 3 points ladies. 3 points.

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Yeah, f*cking genius masterplan from Trap yesterday.

Cop yourself on.

Is it worth mentioning that on 14 October 2009
[Kazakhstan] Kazakhstan 1:2 Croatia [Croatia] 1:2 (1:1)
Sergey KHIZHNICHENKO (26')
Ognjen VUKOJEVIC (10')
Niko KRANJCAR (90'+3)

So Croatia only sneaked a win in the 93rd minute, worse than us!!!

I would remind you Croatia were world ranked 8th at the time!!

Also Denmark and Greece only managed 2-1 in 2005 both ranked about 20ish.

They occasionally take a hammering presumable when they concede early, but if they
do not it seems they are a tricky fixture.

May work in our favour the match was so close.

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Originally Posted by mark12345

Work on from there with McCarthy bossing proceedings in the middle and McGeady Long and Doyle all featuring. Walters too perhaps, but Robbie is not past it, he's way past it. Time to build a new ball playing team.

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Nobody seems willing to credit Robbie with actually winning the penalty!! Had he not been following up in hope for the umpteenth then nothing would have come from doyle's run, would just be another example of disjointed, aimless play. The Trap approach actually suits Robbie the least, chasing hopeful knock ons is not using his talent wisely. Apart from STILL being our best goalscorer he also has more guile, skill, awareness than the other striker we have but that ability is not being utilized. If I was building a ball playing team Keane would absolutely be part of the plan.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

The Kazakh players were not technically better than ours. We have better technical players who could pass them off the park easily if they had been instilled with the cultural inclination to do so. Passing and moving is not some bizarre foreign import - every 6 year old learns how to do it - but you have to actually exercise that on a weekly basis and be entrusted by the manager to do so. It's fairly clear from the Kazakh game that our players are caught in two minds about what they're supposed to be doing, which is why you see St Ledger hoofing the ball when McCarthy has come short, or O'Shea bashing it long to Walters when Cox is in acres down the line.

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CD - they are technically better as they've been schooled better than our players. The most eye-opening moment for me came 2 years ago in Dublin, watching Ireland panic and collapse against a decent Russian team. Ireland began playing with conviction, had the first chance, and before the match the Russian media and public were hopeful - yes, hopeful - of grabbing a point! Then there was a mistake at the back for Ireland and suddenly the players reverted to type. Skill and ability has been coached out of our players by the British system, it's embarrassing to admit, but it's true. All the talk always drags back to the EPL and our players there. There was a time, 20-30 years ago, when our players were good enough to play on mainland Europe at the top level. Now, we have Aiden McGeady who sparkles in a different formation in Russia though is probably on the way out. Money and glamour is all important so our players (and their families and agents) won't venture far from home. But it's not their fault.

Armenian football is weak but they have been investing in their youth development and their players are playing abroad at good levels. The Kazakhs likewise are investing in youth development (I wasn't sure but was told last night it's a German plan) and gradually seeing results. We (I won't say prostitute) flog our youth off the England and Scotlan for a quick buck and then rely on a poorly constructed home league to pick them up when it doesn't work out. Our players are not comfortable on the ball, regardless of the manager, because they've been trained not to. If we develop our youth structures at home then we might just get back on track.

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Originally Posted by Zizou

3 points.
We got the maximum amount of points on offer.
On a plastic pitch.
In flippin' Kazahkstan.
Who gives a monkey's how we did it.
On to the next.

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No doubt that's what you thought after San Marino.

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Originally Posted by PatJR

Nobody seems willing to credit Robbie with actually winning the penalty!! Had he not been following up in hope for the umpteenth then nothing would have come from doyle's run, would just be another example of disjointed, aimless play. The Trap approach actually suits Robbie the least, chasing hopeful knock ons is not using his talent wisely. Apart from STILL being our best goalscorer he also has more guile, skill, awareness than the other striker we have but that ability is not being utilized. If I was building a ball playing team Keane would absolutely be part of the plan.

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That's the run you'd expect Robbie to make every time though. The running of the strikers as a whole when balls were coming into the box was poor generally though.

I tell you what, major credit to Robbie for the way he took the penalty. Totally unflustered by the delay and despatched without any fuss whatsoever. Quality.

I personally thought Kazakhstan we're technically poor. There were occasions in the game where if they were able to move the ball quicker they would have opened us up but they didn't have the technical ability to do so. They also did resort to launching the ball long up to their number 9, who technically must be one of the poorest players our centre halves will play against in international competition.

We certainly have the players to play a more expansive game than what we showed the other night.

Calling for Robbie's head is a bit unfair. The supply he received was somewhat slack and he wasn't presented with any half-chances. The run for the penalty was good and the finish was without fuss and well-dispatched. I wouldn't be calling for Doyle and Long up front quite yet. I'd prefer Keane and Doyle as strikers, with Long on the wing in place of Cox.

In the case of Long, it's quite irritating to see one of our best organically home-grown talents failing to gain a start behind players of lesser quality and form.

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Originally Posted by bishbash

Anyone who defends this rubbish is mentally unstable.

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Appalling description, and wrong.

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But hey he got us to euros and should only be judged on results.

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Accurate description, and correct.

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Originally Posted by Colbert Report

There's no breaking these guys down, not with nine men across the box like that. Twenty minutes to go in the match and we all know that we won't score.

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.......

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Great win. It was never in doubt, just a matter of time before we got the goals we needed I figured.

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:eek:

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

How the hell did we get a win?!

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Because we scored 2 and they scored less.

The job was done, however unpretty it looked, it was done. The campaign is over 10 games. The pressure is now on Austria and Sweden to go to that far flung hellhole, and dodgy pitch, and get the same result. Unlike in San Marino, just 3 teams have beaten that lot on their own patch by more than 3 goals over the years in UEFA competition.

Trap remains unbeaten as Irish coach away from home, a record that has now stretched to 13 games. Goodness knows how a squad stuffed with players from world beaters such as Wolves, Stoke, Sunderland etc would cope without him at top class international level.

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

Holy Sh*t, was swamped at work all day, thought this one was in the bag anyway. Just reading back...must have been a hell of a game to watch in the pubs.
But a win is a win right?:confused:

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A win is not a win in this case. It's a miserable loss.

It's a loss of understanding of what the game of football is. It's a loss of understanding, somewhere along the line, by the players and management, of what actually the fans want to see.

And I can say this, with my hand on my heart, that some of the players in the current Ireland team (Ward, O'Shea, O'Dea, Whelan) wouldn't get their place in teams I have played for throughout an amateur career. The team needs three defenders, a leader on the pitch (you're right Robbie is not a leader nor is Richard Dunne) and a leader off the pitch. And all of them, if they're worth their salt, should get together and challenged themselves to play the ball on the floor.

No it's not worth mentioning. What your missing my friend is the elephant in the room. And that is the horrendously bad performance from the winning team.

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Originally Posted by mark12345

A win is not a win in this case. It's a miserable loss.

It's a loss of understanding of what the game of football is. It's a loss of understanding, somewhere along the line, by the players and management, of what actually the fans want to see.

And I can say this, with my hand on my heart, that some of the players in the current Ireland team (Ward, O'Shea, O'Dea, Whelan) wouldn't get their place in teams I have played for throughout an amateur career. The team needs three defenders, a leader on the pitch (you're right Robbie is not a leader nor is Richard Dunne) and a leader off the pitch. And all of them, if they're worth their salt, should get together and challenged themselves to play the ball on the floor.

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Seriously? I'd honestly make reference to all Dunne's leadership qualities but I'm hoping your comment was in jest. Wasn't it?

I agree. I said it before the Euros that Robbie should be our playmaker in the middle of the park. It's a no brainer because, as you point out, he has the guile, skill and awareness to make things happen. Having said that though (and I do give him credit for winning the penalty) he was five yards off the pace against Kazakstan. And long term I can't see Robbie commuting all the way from LA for a team which keeps hoofing the ball long. I think Robbie is one or two games away from quitting the scene.

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Originally Posted by mark12345

No it's not worth mentioning. What your missing my friend is the elephant in the room. And that is the horrendously bad performance from the winning team.

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I think we really need to address the Elephant in the room. It'll cost us a fortune in stamps, but we have to do it ;)

Trap has to go. Friday was embarrassing and our late goal is just prolonging the inevitable embarrassment that will be germany and Sweden if we continue with these tactics.

The problem is Delaney can't afford to sack him.

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Originally Posted by mark12345

A win is not a win in this case. It's a miserable loss.

It's a loss of understanding of what the game of football is. It's a loss of understanding, somewhere along the line, by the players and management, of what actually the fans want to see.

And I can say this, with my hand on my heart, that some of the players in the current Ireland team (Ward, O'Shea, O'Dea, Whelan) wouldn't get their place in teams I have played for throughout an amateur career. The team needs three defenders, a leader on the pitch (you're right Robbie is not a leader nor is Richard Dunne) and a leader off the pitch. And all of them, if they're worth their salt, should get together and challenged themselves to play the ball on the floor.

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I can see what you're broadly trying to say and would agree to some extent but you've presented it far too melodramatically.

I don't think "what the fans want to see" is that important, if entertainment is what you mean. I maintain that entertainment isn't a big deal but my main gripe is that we try to be compact but we're not, we don't utilise some players in their natural roles, we place too much pressure on limited enough players by asking them to perform a role their toolkit doesn't allow them to perform or by putting them at a numerical disadvantage. The problem with the team is not so much that they're not entertaining, it's that it's anti-entertaining, it's actually frustrating and annoying to watch because I think we can get more from this bunch.

I think Dunne is a leader on the pitch. He's got presence.

For me leadership isn't just fist pumping and shouting, it's playing to the best of your ability more often than not and showing your team mates that you're better than your direct opponent. Dunne has done that a lot over the years.