Euro 2012 Qualifying Group B - General Discussion

Can't help thinking the victory on Saturday night is something of a poison chalice.

The victory seems to be blinding everyone from the fact that the performance wasn't up to scratch and the scoreline doesn't tell the whole story. If I hear another "But you can't argue with Trap, he's getting results", I think I'll explode. What results? Macedonia? Whoop de friggin doo ... If we have genuine aspirations for qualifying for the Euros and competing with Europe's best then the likes of Macedonia should never be allowed dictate the game, the way they did in the second half in Dublin. Yes, there are no easy games in Europe but some are a lot easier than others, and some should be put away in a lot more professional manner than we did.

As regards Macedonia away game being heralded as the crucial game of the campaign (that seems to happen every game we play nowadays), I actually think its the least consequential game we have left. Win, lose or draw, our fate will not be decided by what happens in Skopje ...Our fate will be decided by the outcome of the Slovakia/ Russia double header in September.

If we are to actually win a group we will have to do something we have not done since 1987 and actually beat a big team away. I think it is quite telling that we are bottom of the table in terms of head to heads between ourselves Russia and Slovakia. It would be great to see us freed of the shackles of conservatism that has so many times seen us play out for draws against the bigger sides in matches where they were there for the taking. Its this psyche that has resulted in all those glorious failures we have become accustomed to.

Wouldn't it be great to see some of that "throw caution to the wind" style football we saw in Paris. By playing within the straight jacket system we play in now, I predict it will be another near but yet so far outcome.

I thought that when Noely wrote 'down through the years', he should have written 'as I have witnessed down through the decades' .

Macedonia away is vitally important, because it's the next game. Then the next game after that is the important one.

I'd love to see us take the game to the opposition too and throw away this stand-off-them nonsense, but I'd also like to see us have a midfielder we can genuinely expect to compete in CM.

The result is absolutely not a poisoned chalice. I haven't read one person here who was happy with the way the game panned out, or was "blinded by the result". We played well in parts, very badly in other parts. Maybe you're referring to the folk at home though, if so fair enough.

I don't think we have "played out for draws" that recently: we did in Sofia probably, but not at home to Bulgaria or Italy or even in Slovakia. Getting pegged back and not taking chances are not the same as playing out for a draw. The performance in Slovakia was good enough for a win, but it didn't yield one.

Is our approach conservative? Yes. Is it too conservative? I think so. Would throwing caution to the wind improve results? I'd like to think so but it's anyone's guess.

I think those of us who have been watching the BIG "down through the decades" know just how hard it is to get out of the groups. We used to play engaging football, and with good players, and it got us nowhere!

FT, don't worry there are some of us on here, who use previous results and performances to analyse and predict(succesfully somtimes too like the 2 -1) our future games. The old cliche of you will take the win, no one remembers the performance but the result is clearly not true, because we have had too many poor performances at this stage that we remember them all. In fact I put down these wins to a certain amount of luck which we know Trap has, because if you look at the last campaign we came through some games with these poor performances with the win, but ultimately when it mattered against France at home, they punished us, this sitting back and giving too much respect proved our undoing and showed in Paris had we done the same in Dublin we would have been through to the World cup and no one would have cared about Henrys Handball.

The reason macedonia is so vitally important is not because its the next game, but it relieves us of some pressure going into the next 2 games, which obviouslly makes it easier to get a better result.

Kingdom don't be so smug, if you put your money where your mouth is, then you didnt win anything, you predicted 3-0, I predicted 2 - 1. Mwwhaahahahahaha :D Touché

I predicted 2-1 too, lest you forget.

We all look at previous results and performances, some of us draw different comclusions. Mine (the right one :)) is that this would be a good team if we had a more competitive central midfield. We don't, so we live on the seat of our pants.

I thought France outplayed us in the second half in Dublin and a gritty performance just about kept us in it. We played well enough in the first half.

ya i feel teh same, i think this is the first time in a long time we have had so many premiership regulars as well and its a lot more competitive now than it was 5+ years ago or even 3+ years ago.
But just because we say that a proper midfield would transform the team is no excuse for our current poor performances our reasons to be blinded by that fact.

i thought we let them outplay us until the last 10 mins where we created 2 great chances. Im sure in france there was an element of them sitting back too but had we pressed them as much in dublin and as high up the field then im sure the result would have been different.

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

The way we go about things it is perfectly feasible for us to draw with Slovakia and a few days later go and beat Russia away.

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I hear ya, does anyone else feel more confident watching Ireland away from home these days than at home. We seem to play better when the impetus isnt on us. Im not saying we are going to win in Russia but win in Macedonia is a possibility.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Kingdom don't be so smug, if you put your money where your mouth is, then you didnt win anything, you predicted 3-0, I predicted 2 - 1. Mwwhaahahahahaha :D Touché

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You'rewrong there POS, because I didn't say we'd win 3-0 anywhere. And I did back the one thing I was sure of, with real money too, and the feel of those 50's was lovely.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

You'rewrong there POS, because I didn't say we'd win 3-0 anywhere. And I did back the one thing I was sure of, with real money too, and the feel of those 50's was lovely.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Ireland by 3.
McGeady, Whelan, Keane, McCarthy .

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Correct you didn't, my mistake, you did say Ireland by 3, i took that for some reason to mean 3 - 0. You got keane and mcgeady among the scorers and also mccarthy and whelan - but you originally had put in Walters who wasnt even there!!, but im going by your prediction, that you went for mcgeady first scorer and Ireland to win by 3, what odds did you get on that then ;) :D

Unless of course you didn't go with Ireland by 3 and put your money where your mouth is....or you went with the 2-1 prediction and mcgeady first scorer! Geysir said something about you getting 4/1 on mcgeady first scorer and ireland to win(that seems fairly big odds, was it ireland to win 2-1 :D )

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Geysir said something about you getting 40/1 on mcgeady first scorer and ireland to win(that seems fairly big odds, was it ireland to win 2-1 :D )

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Geysir never said anything remotely like that.
Consider the ridiculousness of those 40/1 odds and consider would I say something so ridiculous?
The bell ringing in your head should have been as loud as Big Ben :)

sorry geysir typo updated. very busy at work. 4/1 on ireland to win and the fact that mcgeady hadn't scored in 38 games, as you said previously (paraphrasing) he was destined to score, is quite high. Anyway well done geysir, for not taking your post to seriouslly about winning by 3 and being realistic and getting some money out of it.

I seem to remember 2-1 being the consensus. But everyone's too blind to have seen it. ;)

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Anyway well done geysir, for not taking your post to seriouslly about winning by 3 and being realistic and getting some money out of it.

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You can call Kingdom a lot of things but don't call him geysir.

FWIW I thought we would win handy enough, stroll the game. We suffered from losing our MVP, Doyle, so early in the game.

I think we did win handy enough, strolled most of the first half and strolled the crucial last 18 minutes after the 75 min mark.
Very impressive ball retention from both McGeady and Duff in those last 18 minutes.

For me the end of the game was a high five, a cause for celebration, a great result and a commanding performance (despite the 47% possession stat), some jitters, overall a performance which we can improve upon.

The victory over Macedonia is a cause for celebration all right, but I felt we should have tried to put 3 or 4 past them and I thought we might have after 2-0. It's always good to have goal-difference in your favour.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think those of us who have been watching the BIG "down through the decades" know just how hard it is to get out of the groups. We used to play engaging football, and with good players, and it got us nowhere!

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For the first time in a long time we got a few breaks on Saturday. Russia drawing was a great start. We won 2-1 with a weakened team and matched Russia's and Slovakia's results. Back in 1987 Stapo's 9.8 to get the peno in Belgium was the break we never seemed to get. Everyone for obvious reasons remembers Gary McKays goal but it was the peno against Belgium that signalled a change of fortune. Armenia have been great for us (so far) in this group. I definetely feel a change of fortune coming our way. We have got ourselves back to the top of the group and are in a position once more to take advantage of any breaks that come our way. Does anyone remember the two draws at home to Belgium and Scotland in Jacks first campaign?

The win was of utmost importance, the performance and indeed the margin less so.

Macedonia home and away is more about keeping ourselves in the race to fight it out with Russia and Slovakia in the autumn.

I wouldn't bemoan the lack of a cricket score as other nations have turned nicking barely deserved results into a fine art - England have won ugly on many occasions and the match is soon forgotten.

We deserved the win and I've viewed Macedonia - home and away - as a difficult obstacle to negotiate where we'll earn to right to battle it out in the autumn.

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Originally Posted by geysir

For me the end of the game was a high five, a cause for celebration, a great result and a commanding performance (despite the 47% possession stat), some jitters, overall a performance which we can improve upon.

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That 47% could cause us serious problems in Macedonia though, i think thats the point some are trying to make.

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

Does anyone remember the two draws at home to Belgium and Scotland in Jacks first campaign?

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The Belgium game was a tense game with no a major amount of goal attempts. I've a vague recollection of Liam Brady making a break into their box and having a shot blocked on the line?????

Two notable results that were huge for us in that group early on - drew away with Belgium and beat Scotland away.