Liverpool

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Originally Posted by reder

I got the number of goals scored tonight correct but didnt account for more poor defending against the worst attacking side in the PL, in my opinion.

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I hate to say I told you so, but I will anyway

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Originally Posted by reder

I got the number of goals scored tonight correct but didnt account for more poor defending against the worst attacking side in the PL, in my opinion.

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2 chances and 2 goals. Very poor defending for the first and a wonder strike for the second. 24 efforts on goal by Liverpool - issues at both ends of the park sums up our season. Thought Lucas was good last night and has been for the past few games - until Gerard came on. Then he stopped playing his natural game and seemed to look for Gerard with every pass. Blatant dive by Ngog, not good to see but he played well over all. Johnson was great, Kyut is strugging to find last years form. 3 more injuries - Riera,Yossi and Agger(again). Thank god for the International break - hopefully Ireland can cheer up us Liverpool fans:(

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Originally Posted by papa-j

2 chances and 2 goals. Very poor defending for the first and a wonder strike for the second. 24 efforts on goal by Liverpool - issues at both ends of the park sums up our season. Thought Lucas was good last night and has been for the past few games - until Gerard came on. Then he stopped playing his natural game and seemed to look for Gerard with every pass. Blatant dive by Ngog, not good to see but he played well over all. Johnson was great, Kyut is strugging to find last years form. 3 more injuries - Riera,Yossi and Agger(again). Thank god for the International break - hopefully Ireland can cheer up us Liverpool fans:(

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My exact opinion.

Am I the only person around who thinks there's more to the penalty decision debate than just "it was a dive"?

Carsley slid / lunged right across Ngog's path and missed the ball. You can't have players just lunging & missing. Yes, Ngog dived but Carsley's rash and wrongly timed challenge cost Ngog control of the ball in a really dangerous position. In my mind it's not just about whether there was contact.

Just repeating what I've said dozens of times in the Ireland forum.

I thought the same as you when I seen it first actually. However, the more I look at it the more unnessessary the dive was. If he had to hurl over Carsley's leg I'd say it's a penalty, contact or no contact but I don't really think he had to.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Am I the only person around who thinks there's more to the penalty decision debate than just "it was a dive"?

Carsley slid / lunged right across Ngog's path and missed the ball. You can't have players just lunging & missing. Yes, Ngog dived but Carsley's rash and wrongly timed challenge cost Ngog control of the ball in a really dangerous position. In my mind it's not just about whether there was contact.

Just repeating what I've said dozens of times in the Ireland forum.

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Haha - I rarely come in this forum but thought Id have a nosey at this thread to see if Stutts had come out in defence of Ngog despite there being no contact.:D

I definitely understand your point and do agree to an extent. Though If we just look at the incident at face value without over complicating it

A) Ngog dived in order to win the penalty
B) Carsley mistimed his tackle possibly causing Ngog to lose control / though it did appear his focus was already on how he was going to go down.

If it was a simple question of who you would back A or B, Im afraid you'd have to come down in favour of B everytime.

The Media today and ESPN panel after the game seem to be wholeheartedly in agreement that it was a dive and not a penalty.

Out of interest I never did read your opinion on the Eduardo / Boruc incident -Please dont let me down and say it wasnt a penalty:D

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

I thought the same as you when I seen it first actually. However, the more I look at it the more unnessessary the dive was. If he had to hurl over Carsley's leg I'd say it's a penalty, contact or no contact but I don't really think he had to.

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With the luck we have had we will take every decision that goes our way. That penalty reverses the beachball incident:D

Seriously though he dived but I think that 9 times out of 10 that challenge from Carsley is a free kick if outside the box. He lunged in and got nowhere near the ball, thats dangerous play. Harsh but you cant go to ground and not win the ball.

Last 2 games Liverpool played fairly well and created chances while limiting the opposition to very few chances, however poor decision making while defending( set piece again) and poor finishing have cost us. Signing another striker in Jan is vital

Dive.

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Originally Posted by Junior

Haha - I rarely come in this forum but thought Id have a nosey at this thread to see if Stutts had come out in defence of Ngog despite there being no contact.:D

I definitely understand your point and do agree to an extent. Though If we just look at the incident at face value without over complicating it

A) Ngog dived in order to win the penalty
B) Carsley mistimed his tackle possibly causing Ngog to lose control / though it did appear his focus was already on how he was going to go down.

If it was a simple question of who you would back A or B, Im afraid you'd have to come down in favour of B everytime.

The Media today and ESPN panel after the game seem to be wholeheartedly in agreement that it was a dive and not a penalty.

Out of interest I never did read your opinion on the Eduardo / Boruc incident -Please dont let me down and say it wasnt a penalty:D

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See, I knew someone was paying attention. :)

I think there's more to it than simply "it was a dive" but in Ngog's case the dive was so blatant it completely distracts from the other viewpoint - that defenders can't just go across people aimlessly and claim that just because they made no contact it wasn't a foul.

Eduardo - I thought was a blatant dive at the time (I was at the game) but saw on youtube 2 weeks later that there was minor contact with Boruc's knee. I think it was a dive though - he was going to go down anyway.

I wonder will Ngog be met with the same opprobrium that Eduardo was met with, despite Eduardo having quite a quiet, modest and honest outlook on the game in general. I know very little about Ngog.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think there's more to it than simply "it was a dive" but in Ngog's case the dive was so blatant it completely distracts from the other viewpoint - that defenders can't just go across people aimlessly and claim that just because they made no contact it wasn't a foul.

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Completely agree.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Eduardo - I thought was a blatant dive at the time (I was at the game) but saw on youtube 2 weeks later that there was minor contact with Boruc's knee. I think it was a dive though - he was going to go down anyway.

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As you say he was going down anyway and in much the same way as non contact should not mean it is not a free, there being contact equally does not automatically equate to it being a free no matter where it is on the pitch.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I wonder will Ngog be met with the same opprobrium that Eduardo was met with, despite Eduardo having quite a quiet, modest and honest outlook on the game in general. I know very little about Ngog.

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I think the fact the Eduardo had been afforded so much sympathy and best wishes following his leg break - the blatant act of cheating (which is what it was) did not go down well with Celtic supporters and the footballing public at large.


Rightly or wrongly the Celtic/Arsenal game could be deemed of more importance.

UEFAs Flagship tournament
One off fixture whereby the winner (over the 2 legs of course) stood to gain a minimum of £10m in TV Revenue / Gate Receipts / Group Stage Points Bonus etc...
Effects more than one footballing association (SPL and FA)

The game last night was one game out of 38, that ended in a draw and whereby general consensus is "these things even themselves out" though somehow I doubt McCleish will be agreeing with that come the final weeks of the season, should Birmingham be in 'trouble'.

yeah, fair points all.

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Originally Posted by papa-j

With the luck we have had we will take every decision that goes our way. That penalty reverses the beachball incident:D

Seriously though he dived but I think that 9 times out of 10 that challenge from Carsley is a free kick if outside the box. He lunged in and got nowhere near the ball, thats dangerous play. Harsh but you cant go to ground and not win the ball.

Last 2 games Liverpool played fairly well and created chances while limiting the opposition to very few chances, however poor decision making while defending( set piece again) and poor finishing have cost us. Signing another striker in Jan is vital

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so what your saying is that everytime a player lunges / tackles and misses ball it should be a free kick / penalty if this is the case we will have no time for any football between all the fouls ... would ngog have went down so easily if same situation occured outside box and he was straight through on goals looking for equalizer / winner i don't think so :mad: ... players will always mistime tackles and unfortunatly opponents of most teams now seem to find it easier to go down looking for frees rather than staying on their feet.. marcus bent also won a penalty for sunderland against spurs when he was already on his way down before gomes challanged him... personally i think f.a. should review any clear cut diving incidents punish players with bans and how about punshing clubs also ( problem here is what punishment is enough to get clubs to stamp down on players from all clubs diving ) did you see benitiz interview after match when asked about penalty benitiz said he asked ngog was it a penalty and ngog replied " im not sure i don't think so " so if player & mangers cannot even be honest and admit the truth here lies most of the problems .. but will stress again every team have the divers and mangers who always miss incidents but are 100% adament they should have been awarded free kicks / penaltys / goals etc .. will agree on you liverpool have played well the last 2 games and poor finishing & defending is a problem at the moment... striker badly needed and maybe centre half/ fullback as well in january :ball:

Rafa B / Papa-j found the answer to the pools striker problem should be available in january for a small fee has a sweet left foot and clinical finisher .. needs a bit of work on goal celebrations though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaXUXwmCztI

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Originally Posted by papa-j

With the luck we have had we will take every decision that goes our way. That penalty reverses the beachball incident:D

Seriously though he dived but I think that 9 times out of 10 that challenge from Carsley is a free kick if outside the box. He lunged in and got nowhere near the ball, thats dangerous play. Harsh but you cant go to ground and not win the ball.

Last 2 games Liverpool played fairly well and created chances while limiting the opposition to very few chances, however poor decision making while defending( set piece again) and poor finishing have cost us. Signing another striker in Jan is vital

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That's beside the point.

That's like arguing that if someone leaves their phone or wallet behind them your free to steal it.

The fact is he DIDN'T connect and he DID dive,that **** really annoys me, in all my years playing it never even crossed my mind to go down like that, i'd naturally try stay standing, as do 99%. it's sad how the further up the ladder you do(and the further away from the British and Irish isles you do it gets more evident, some people have no pride, I'd find it embarrassing tbh

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Originally Posted by old git

Rafa B / Papa-j found the answer to the pools striker problem

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Liverpool have scored 27 to Utd's 24 in the league. Run along now dear.

Jaysus lads there is a lot of moralising going on here. Its a professional sport, players, managers everyone will take and advantage whenever they can.Be that diving, pressuring refs during games, using the media to put pressure other managers, refs or players, taking performance enhancing drugs, tapping up under contract players or changing the competition rules to help certain countries qualify for world cups( FIFA), FAI charging 50 quid for kids to watch Ireland in Thomand Park, even fans abusing refs and players - they are all guilty of it in some form. I'm not saying its right as I hate diving myself but unless the authorities get serious and tackle it properly then its part of the game.

If Ireland get a penalty v France through a dive and qualify I think I'll get over the injustice on the French fairly quickly. At the end of the day most opinions on these incidents are formed based on your vested interest in the game.

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Originally Posted by papa-j

I hate diving myself but unless the authorities get serious and tackle it properly then its part of the game

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Couldn't agree more with this bit. You can dislike a player because of it but it's really the fault of the authorities at this stage.

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Originally Posted by Roadend

Liverpool have scored 27 to Utd's 24 in the league. Run along now dear.

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... why do you assume i support utd..?? unfortunatly i have bigger problems worring about celtic ... as for running along now dear 3 goals more scored i'd rather have the points :D:D and by the way it was a little bit of craic for rafa b & papa-j

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

Couldn't agree more with this bit. You can dislike a player because of it but it's really the fault of the authorities at this stage.

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more than likley we all agree on this ... authorities should be doing more to cut it out but all the club's are not blameless either .. if liverpool dropped / fined ngog for diving / chelsea drogba / utd rooney etc .. this would really help but we all now it will never happen :ball:

From what I heard on TalkSport this evening it looks like the authorities are doing their bit.

Yes - They've stood the referee down from Premier League duties for missing the dive. No word on N'gog receiving any punishment though.

Laughable really.