Robbie Keane

Okay TOWK, you're finally getting somewhere. I don't think anyone here would say that Robbie is a guaranteed starter anymore, especially against the top sides where we'll more than likely have to play 4-5-1 or some variant with a striker who is a little younger than Robbie.

With regards his walking away comment, yes he did say as quoted in 2011 but he was asked to clear it up last year and he did, he said was that he would walk away when the manager had no use for him anymore, in that he had no problem playing until he wasn't being called up.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/robb...-29755390.html

With regard Robbie not scoring against the top sides, well my personal opinion is that he scored more than anyone else. The reason he didn't score more wasn't a Robbie Keane problem, it was an Irish team problem. Against good sides, Robbie like most stikers that he's similiar to, needs to be surrounded by good players in order to convert chances. There are other goalscorers like Messi, Suarez, Ronaldo, Van Persie who will score against anyone because they are capable of creating chances out of nothing. Robbie was rarely that sort of striker, but that's not an indictment of him as a footballer. It takes all sorts to make teams. To criticise Robbie for not scoring more goals is extremely harsh. There's no evidence that any other player would of scored more. A quick look at Shevchenkos international goals shows a similiar pattern to Robbie, yet he's worshipped in his home country and rightly so. There are probably loads of other examples. I hope when Robbie is gone and we struggle to score against the Faroe Islands and go scoreless against the top sides consistently that people will finally appreciate Robbie.

TOWK - could you confirm a couple of things for me, im just interested - where in Ireland are you from and what team(s) do you support?

Weighing up his performances against top 3 standard teams, I don't think his goalscoring record is good enough to warrant a guaranteed start anymore. Even in the Sweden game, he was completely ineffective apart from the goal. I think we have to start thinking about how to utilise players like Hoolahan, Reid, Ireland, Pilkington, Brady, McClean, McGeady, Stokes and Long effectively.

We need to figure out a way to get more goals all over the pitch. Pilkington, McClean and Reid for example are all capable of scoring goals.

As I keep saying, the ideal scenario would be to use Keane as a bench option for the games against the top seeds and go with e.g. Gibson, McCarthy and Reid in midfield behind Long.

This is the root issue at the end of the day, if that day comes, will Keane be willing to sit on the bench?

I don't see how he could complain. He had the option of moving to a European giant in Besiktas and competing against teams like Galatasaray, Trabzonspor and Fenerbahce and competing in the Europa League/Champions League but he took the option of moving to Los Angeles. So, you can't say the level he is playing against is anywhere near good enough. And ad nauseum, nor are his performances against direct rivals.

Not sure has it been mentioned but Shane Long has scored only one competitive international goal at the age of 27.

That says plenty.

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Not sure has it been mentioned but Shane Long has scored only one competitive international goal at the age of 27.

That says plenty.

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He's 27 years old as opposed to 34 years old. He's playing and playing well in the Premier League though and averaging 1 goal in every 3 starts. He's also, crucially, playing well for Ireland. How many competitive games has he even started for Ireland anyway? Trapattoni had a bizarre infatuation with starting inferior players like Caleb Folan, Leon Best, Simon Cox and Jon Walters ahead of him.

You could play Keane in to his forties or you could try and look to the future.

Age waits for no man.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

As I keep saying, the ideal scenario would be to use Keane as a bench option for the games against the top seeds and go with e.g. Gibson, McCarthy and Reid in midfield behind Long.

This is the root issue at the end of the day, if that day comes, will Keane be willing to sit on the bench?

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Okay, well this little discussion that's being centred around you the last few days had nothing to do with those two points. It all started when you said Robbie only scores against small nations. Since that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it, and clearly nobody else agrees with you, we'll move on from it.

Do people think Robbie should start a September qualifier at home against the Netherlands for example. And do people think that if he's dropped for a game similiar to that, he'll walk away as TOWK is suggesting?

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

He's 27 years old as opposed to 34 years old. He's playing and playing well in the Premier League though and averaging 1 goal in every 3 starts. He's also, crucially, playing well for Ireland. How many competitive games has he even started for Ireland anyway? Trapattoni had a bizarre infatuation with starting inferior players like Caleb Folan, Leon Best, Simon Cox and Jon Walters ahead of him.

You could play Keane in to his forties or you could try and look to the future.

Age waits for no man.

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I don't think anyone said Keane should be starting ahead of Long? In fact nobody has even argued that Keane should be starting all the time. It'd be harsh to compare Shane at 27 against Robbie at 27 because Robbie was such a better player than Shane between 17 and 25. Shane for his part has started in 6 competitive games for Ireland and hasn't scored in any of them.

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

Okay, well this little discussion that's being centred around you the last few days had nothing to do with those two points. It all started when you said Robbie only scores against small nations. Since that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it, and clearly nobody else agrees with you, we'll move on from it.

Do people think Robbie should start a September qualifier at home against the Netherlands for example. And do people think that if he's dropped for a game similiar to that, he'll walk away as TOWK is suggesting?

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The discussion is not centered around me. It's centered around Robbie Keane.

I said Robbie only scores against small nations and I provided statistics which don't exactly make a mockery of what I said.

"Since that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it, and clearly nobody else agrees with you, we'll move on from it." Is there really any need for that?

In response to the final paragraph, I would be very curious to see what would happen if that hypothesis came to fruition. In my opinion, I would not grant Keane a start on merit.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

He's 27 years old as opposed to 34 years old. He's playing and playing well in the Premier League though and averaging 1 goal in every 3 starts. He's also, crucially, playing well for Ireland. How many competitive games has he even started for Ireland anyway? Trapattoni had a bizarre infatuation with starting inferior players like Caleb Folan, Leon Best, Simon Cox and Jon Walters ahead of him.

You could play Keane in to his forties or you could try and look to the future.

Age waits for no man.

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That's grand and all. But if Shane Long took a few of the many excellent opportunities to score over the past year, then none of us would be having this discussion. The debate only exists because these Robbie replacements just don't have what a diminished figure like Keane still has.

We don't need workhorses or potential - we need goals. Down to you Shane.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

He's playing and playing well in the Premier League though and averaging 1 goal in every 3 starts.

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If by playing well you mean he's running around a lot and not scoring many goals. We had five years under Trap of Kevin Doyle running around a lot and not scoring many goals. That type of player is certainly useful, but if you don't have goals coming from other areas of the pitch, they're not particularly conducive to winning football matches. Assuming our game plan for the next 2+ years is something a little more evolved than Trap's philosophy of running around a lot and not scoring many goals.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

If by playing well you mean he's running around a lot and not scoring many goals. We had five years under Trap of Kevin Doyle running around a lot and not scoring many goals. That type of player is certainly useful, but if you don't have goals coming from other areas of the pitch, they're not particularly conducive to winning football matches. Assuming our game plan for the next 2+ years is something a little more evolved than Trap's philosophy of running around a lot and not scoring many goals.

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Well, we can knock Doyle and Long but without them we would have been virtually out of the running for Brazil 2014 after one match.

You're the one who knocks, pal. I'm not saying they're bad players, just that they're not goalscorers. Neither is David Forde but I'd still have him in the team. Nevertheless, we need somebody to score goals otherwise we won't win.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Well, we can knock Doyle and Long but without them we would have been virtually out of the running for Brazil 2014 after one match.

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The Kazakhstan away game? What did Long do? Doyle had a huge impact but nothing more than Keane has done time after time after time...

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

The Kazakhstan away game? What did Long do? Doyle had a huge impact but nothing more than Keane has done time after time after time...

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When Long and Doyle came on and Cox and Walters came off, it totally changed our attacking impetus. For 70 odd minutes, Kazakhstan were the better team and then Long and Doyle come on and Ireland look like a completely different team. You have Keane trying to nick a goal and win penalties and offering nothing to the overall play, you have Walters and Cox running around like headless chickens, incapable of holding up the ball, crossing the ball or even the fundamentals of controlling it. Then Doyle and Long come on and show how to cross the ball, pass the ball and retain possession; reminds you how important Long and Doyle's overall contributions are.

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

Robbies best XI and some other interesting info in a conversation with Kilbane for the daily mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...-pressure.html
Given
Zannetti Dunne King Bale
Beckhame Keane Seedorf Gerrard Duff
Berbatov

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Zanetti

He has good taste in full backs.

Given that my question has been ignored twice now I am making the following assumption about TOWK.

1) Culchie.
2) Liverpool fan.

:)

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Given that my question has been ignored twice now I am making the following assumption about TOWK.

1) Culchie.
2) Liverpool fan.

:)

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1 out of 2 is correct. :p

I still don't see why the MLS is such a problem. I think his strike rate since he moved there is still at least as good. It keeps him fresh and used to scoring goals. I think he absolutely made the right move, for him, his family and to prolong his career.

Despite all this, I agree he shouldn't be a certain starter. His selection dictates the shape of the team, a shape that probably puts us at a disadvantage in many respects. But Long, McGeady, Hoolahan/Reid, McClean and Walters all need to start mucking in with more goals. Giroud is hardly prolific for Arsenal, but at various times this year Ramsey, Wilshere and most recently Cazorla have got the necessary goals to compensate. It's a risk to assume midfielders will continue to score enough goals though. Ireland would run a similar risk if they dropped Keane, and also run the risk of less possession if we don't.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Despite all this, I agree he shouldn't be a certain starter.

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Yeah, I don't think anybody disagrees with TOWK's opinion that Keane "shouldn't be a certain starter". I don't think anybody has a problem with him thinking Klose is a better player either. The logic and stats used to bring about these conclusions is where the crater sized holes can be picked.

I really hate when I don't quote and my post goes on to a new page.