NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

Northern Ireland is an exception. You've already admitted that in other posts. Let's stick to the case at hand.

The soul of your argument seems to be based around The fact is, if Gibson does not meet FIFA's criteria to represent another Association, then he should not be allowed to do so.

Do you not feel that for FIFA to force Gibson or any other player in the same situtation to represent Nothern Ireland, compromises somewhat his civil right of choice of Nationality?

By the same token, could you acknowledge that the IFA lobbying FIFA to ammend the criteria could be percieved by some people born in Northern Ireland as attempts by the IFA to compromise their right of choice of Nationality for their own gain?

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Your post shows a clear misunderstanding of the situation.

Northern Ireland (IFA), along with the other three British Associations, IS an exception - it is made clear in black and white in FIFA's Articles and Regulations. Whereas, the ROI (FAI) is nowhere excepted or exempted from any of FIFA's Arts and Regs. Those are two simple, incontrovertible facts.

And FIFA is NOT forcing Gibson or anyone else to represent NI. It could not do so, even if it wanted to. Rather, it is considering whether he might be allowed also to represent another Association, as well as NI. The two are not the same.

Nor is "the IFA lobbying FIFA to ammend the criteria". FIFA made an addition to its eligibility criteria last year, entirely without reference to the IFA. The IFA is consequently seeking clarification as to the applicability of these new criteria, particularly in respect of players born within its footballing jurisdiction.

I don't know whether you are incapable of understanding these not very difficult concepts, or whether it is that you are so determined to apply your own particular (political) preferences to this case, that you are wilfully ignoring the real (regulatory) issues here.

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Originally Posted by lopez

Anyway, in answer, so too was Gibson's Irish international career (at youth level) initiated prior to this annex. So if Taylor's career has continued, so will Gibson's.

I'm interested in whether the IFA can still trawl England for players desperate enough to play for you on the technicality that they are British, yet have no connection with the O6C. If they still do, then it's still good old IFA double standards.

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Apples and pears. Taylor was eligible under the regulations for senior international football which existed at the time, just like Gibson (presumably) qualified for under-age international football at the time he was picked.

Had Gibson been capped at Senior level before the Annex came in, then presumably he would have been OK.

As for your supplementary interest, I don't see what Taylor has got to do with Gibson's case. FIFA is hardly going to operate some sort of offset, or quota system, along the lines of "The IFA is allowed one non-NI born UK Passportholder for every NI-born Irish Passport holder who plays for the FAI"

If you are really so concerned about Maik Taylor, having brought him up repeatedly, why don't you start a separate thread for his case and others like it?

Or lobby FIFA?

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Originally Posted by co. down green

eg

Leaving to one side the fact that February was seven months ago

Yeah it easy to leave things to the side when the reporter/IFA are telling lies.

I suggest if you are looking for some answers regarding Darron's commitment to his country you should contact Kenny Shiels, the north's u17 manager back in 2003-2004.

The last man to coach Darron Gibson in Northern Ireland colours feels the Derry teenager will not be the last to go south of the border.

Kenny Shiels was in charge of the under-17 side when the Manchester United defender decided that his international career lay with the Republic.

Shiels though knew that from a young age, Gibson had his heart set on playing for the Republic.

"He enjoyed his time with us but he always wanted to play for the Republic," he explained.

I see some over on 'Are We A Country' are also having a go at young Evans for daring to speak outside the box. How sad.

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I am not claiming that the passing of seven months means that whatever happened previously doesn't matter, merely pointing out that a lot can change in that time, especially with a new manager and President.

As for Kenny Shiels, I really don't know exactly what went on, but it is hardly beyond the bounds of possibility that when a particularly promising youngster suddenly ups sticks and leaves for another team, his manager at the time will feel obliged to cover his ass by saying that there was nothing anyone could have done to prevent it.

And as for those individuals on OWC who may be having a pop at Evans, they certainly don't speak for me, nor (I would guess), the great majority of the GAWA.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

I am not claiming that the passing of seven months means that whatever happened previously doesn't matter, merely pointing out that a lot can change in that time, especially with a new manager and President.

As for Kenny Shiels, I really don't know exactly what went on, but it is hardly beyond the bounds of possibility that when a particularly promising youngster suddenly ups sticks and leaves for another team, his manager at the time will feel obliged to cover his ass by saying that there was nothing anyone could have done to prevent it.

And as for those individuals on OWC who may be having a pop at Evans, they certainly don't speak for me, nor (I would guess), the great majority of the GAWA.

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So it was Kenny Shiels fault :rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy

Why don't you go somewhere else and bore the ball s off someone else? This is the only thread you ever post on! Get a life FFS.

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In fairness Paddy he is not the only one not interested in regular football threads.With Potter out and Kilbane possibly playing at lb there is a fair chance Gibson could be playing some role in these forhcoming games.Because he is so inexperienced that would worry me but it would be fascinating to see how he would get on.We really need midfielders to come through.How about Garvan to be promoted to senior squad.:)

Anyone catch the representative from the IFA on NewsTalk tonight? Said a whole lot of nothing.

Id love if gibson got a run in one of the games. It might stop the boys over in 'are weea country' moaning about an irish man opting to play for Ireland!!

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Anyone catch the representative from the IFA on NewsTalk tonight? Said a whole lot of nothing.

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Welcome to the bizarre world of Howard Wells.

He said more than nothing. Barefaced lies according to accounts. The guy has no integrity.

He was asked a direct question about FIFA's reply and said he has received none.
He refused to come clean that FIFA have already replied to the IFA in October.
He refused to admit that the IFA have received a direct reply on the eligibility situation last october
He said the FAI have received some letter but said no more.

He also claimed that the FAI have received some questions from FIFA which they have failed to reply.

The FAI for their part said that they are in regular communication with FIFA but have not received one question or request about the eligibility situation.

Bluster and blarney.

I have a question.

Is it possible for Darren Gibson to play for the North after already being capped for the Republic.

Because Im a bit confused.

I think if your capped at A level with one country you cant change to another country. Not that im recognising the north as a country or anything!

I'd be amazed if Gibson does not play some part over the next 2 games. Very good player imo. And the "wee, wee" chaps will be burning bonfires and frothing at the mouth so thats a double bonus. And there will be double nay triple threats of FIFA expulsions from Howie. And docking of points. Beheadings even. Our darkest hour is upon us.

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Originally Posted by geysir

I heard the voice of Wells in a radio interview this evening
What a pompous condescending prxk.

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On that, my friend, we can wholeheartedly agree.:)

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Your post shows a clear misunderstanding of the situation.

Northern Ireland (IFA), along with the other three British Associations, IS an exception - it is made clear in black and white in FIFA's Articles and Regulations. Whereas, the ROI (FAI) is nowhere excepted or exempted from any of FIFA's Arts and Regs. Those are two simple, incontrovertible facts.

And FIFA is NOT forcing Gibson or anyone else to represent NI. It could not do so, even if it wanted to. Rather, it is considering whether he might be allowed also to represent another Association, as well as NI. The two are not the same.

Nor is "the IFA lobbying FIFA to ammend the criteria". FIFA made an addition to its eligibility criteria last year, entirely without reference to the IFA. The IFA is consequently seeking clarification as to the applicability of these new criteria, particularly in respect of players born within its footballing jurisdiction.

I don't know whether you are incapable of understanding these not very difficult concepts, or whether it is that you are so determined to apply your own particular (political) preferences to this case, that you are wilfully ignoring the real (regulatory) issues here.

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I am in no way ignoring the regulatory issues. I'm simply saying they are A factor in this situation, not THE factor, as you seem to cite above and for me base your entire argument on.

I made the mistake of asking a question that could be pulled appart rather than answered, when you (should at least) know what was the intended question.

I'm asking you to commit to something in terms of the implications of ammended/clarified FIFA regulations, instead of burying a responses in non commital jargain and thinly veiled insults. I'll coin my argument once more in three lines.

I feel that if FIFA regulations are amended/clarified to remove players like Darron Gibsons' choice of representation, despite the choice of Nationality afforded to them, that this compromises their civil rights. It diminishes the relevence of their choice.

There it is. I ask you to do coin yours. In a few lines please. You've spent alot of posts telling people what you're NOT saying and attacking our cappacity to understand. What do they say in college about not being able to coin your argument in a few lines?

And politics? If my perceived politics mean that I respect choice in this situation and expect FIFA to do the same, then I don't think I'll be loosing much sleep. However going by what I think you intended by bringing my politics into this, I admit that whilst I take pleasure in the choice of Gibson to represent us, I also lament missing out on likes Kevin Nolan and welcome players like Clinton Morrison into our team. Easily proven. Hardly the postings of a true 'Fenian'. Why did you have to 'go there'?

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Apples and pears. Taylor was eligible under the regulations for senior international football which existed at the time, just like Gibson (presumably) qualified for under-age international football at the time he was picked.

Had Gibson been capped at Senior level before the Annex came in, then presumably he would have been OK.

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Still talking out of your tradesman's entrance I see. Gibson's international career at youth level is totally irrelevant? Keep dreaming!

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

As for your supplementary interest, I don't see what Taylor has got to do with Gibson's case. FIFA is hardly going to operate some sort of offset, or quota system, along the lines of "The IFA is allowed one non-NI born UK Passportholder for every NI-born Irish Passport holder who plays for the FAI"

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They'll (or rather have already) come to conclusion that as NI can pick players that don't pass the three points mentioned by our missing 'wee mind', so too can Ireland. Why? Because both accept players on their passport.

You can keep going on about this, but there is absolutely no chance of denying Gibson an international career and continuing to pick naturalised Britons who have never been to the O6C, let alone have any connection or love for the place.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

If you are really so concerned about Maik Taylor, having brought him up repeatedly, why don't you start a separate thread for his case

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This is a repeated line with you. Bring in something connected with the thread, you want it taken out, if you can't answer. I've said it before, it's the mods that have the right to ban stuff, so you can either answer or go into one of your hissy fits and pretend you've put me on the ignore list.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Or lobby FIFA?

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The FAI will be lobbying FIFA, and I dare say the Spanish and Swedish FAs will aswell. But one word of warning, Europe isn't as black and white, where everyone born within a state belongs to that nation. You might fancy Slovakia, Czech republic, Germany and Cyprus (even San Marino), wetting their lips at Gibson's inclusion, but leaving aside the fact that FIFA have already approved his place in the team (so that the best you can hope for is a future cut off), we might see these teams with their own Gibson of the past or present, because the first four have had history of communities living outside its present state borders, while Sweden has a minority within Finland.

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

I am in no way ignoring the regulatory issues. I'm simply saying they are A factor in this situation, not THE factor, as you seem to cite above and for me base your entire argument on.

There it is. I ask you to do coin yours. In a few lines please.

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If FIFA should deviate in this instance from their usual practice of resolving this dispute solely by reference to their Articles and Regulations, then that will be unprecedented. That is why I consider the regulatory issues not just to be THE factor in all this, but the ONLY factor..

As for the following:
"I feel that if FIFA regulations are amended/clarified to remove players like Darron Gibsons' choice of representation, despite the choice of Nationality afforded to them, that this compromises their civil rights. It diminishes the relevence of their choice"
You may consider it to be a "civil right" to play international football for one Association rather than another, but (irrespective of the personal sympathy I feel for Gibson) I do not. Neither do FIFA.
Therefore, if they consider that the Annex does not apply to him due to his "Dual Nationality", then his switch to the ROI will be ratified, but if they consider it does apply, it will not. The player's "civil rights" do not come into it.

Why is Gibson eligible to play underage football for Ireland but (supposedly) not senior football?

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Why is Gibson eligible to play underage football for Ireland but (supposedly) not senior football?

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The regulations are different, particularly with regard to switching Associations, being tied in etc. He may, however, be eligible for the ROI at both levels.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

The regulations are different, particularly with regard to switching Associations, being tied in etc. He may, however, be eligible for the ROI at both levels.

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So the fact that he has played competitively for Ireland at different underage levels has no bearing on his eligibility for the senior team?

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Why is Gibson eligible to play underage football for Ireland but (supposedly) not senior football?

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A supposition is based on a presumption without certain knowledge.
That certain knowledge is absent.

The certain knowledge is that Gibson is eligible. Dogma gets in the way of some peoples perception of that certainty.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

So the fact that he has played competitively for Ireland at different underage levels has no bearing on his eligibility for the senior team?

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It is not that it has "no bearing" (it may have); rather, you cannot conclude that just because he has represented the ROI at under-age level, he must be allowed to represent them at senior level.

Besides, he first represented Northern Ireland at under-age level! ;)