League of Ireland in Europe 2019

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Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

Marino shouldnt you be taking a break from the internet after your embarrassing display in the other thread? This is for european games anyway. Not really something you need to worry about as a proud underachiever.

Nesta would you not say you got out of our last meeting with a lucky 3 points no? Most would. Best ive seen us play against you and I think its a sign the gap is closing. Made you look pretty normal for the first time in years. Bar gannon. Unreal player. The one that got away.

On the field things are even enough . On the league table its another matter but thats down to our games against the hipsters. Wed be top if we managed to put them away.

As for missing players.... You brought in a lad who was starting for watford as a replacement.. Among others. I dont think anyone would buy that dundalk have limited depth. Shields and benson are great players but you coped just fine. Almost have two league winning elevens up there to pick from whereas rovers were fielding kids. We've added depth now with cummins, farrugia and oneill. Bench starting to look better which we need. 14 man game and all that. Dundalk still so stacked though and it will probably carry you to another league. Congrats if so.

The AP v Qarabag debate is a bit silly but a neutral would probably look at the Cypriot league being ranked above the Azerbaijani along with AP beating lazio and marseille in europe last year whereas Q, while qualifying impressively to the CL group stages, didn't exactly set the world alight when there. The club coefficient tells a different story but we know all the coefficient stuff is a bit problematic, league and club alike. Footballs about more than points or we wouldn't bother watching it!

Two good sides though, with great pedigree in europe and both our sides will be doing well to go through. Think rovers are handling it better so far in that they are winning games, but dundalk find ways to win even when they arent playing well. That's why they are champions elect.

Good luck with qarabag. On balance id rather you dropped into the europa but in the spirit of football supporters sticking together.....

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Rovers are constantly improving along with Bradley as a manager. The gap is closing but not at a rate that has Dundalk fans really looking over the shoulders yet. A couple of shrewd signings in the close season could change that quickly. I'm sure I will be reminded of saying this if we throw away this league title!!!

There is an unprecedented level of depth of squad probably ever in LoI. But with that even in mind we had 7 midfielders out injured early/'mid' season and a number that were long term. Flores and Murray were not fit and had reoccuring injuries as a result. We have played a left fullback and a central defender in midfield as a result and a right full back in right midfield. That we have yet to put in a really good performance is an indication of the disruption to the squad, players out of position, and players being risked - playing injured with no other choice. It's worth considering the importance of the players that were out of games also - Benson, McEleney, McGrath, Murray, Flores, Mountney, Shields for 3 weeks(?) so a good few games with this fixture list, Folan, Dummigan from trying to get match fit and so on. With different but significant combinations granted. All of Benson, McEleney, McGrath, Murray, Flores, Mountney, Shields have had to play rushed back from injury. Murray and Flores never got the chance to get match fit.

Murray now is looking like he is getting both injury free cuurently and is nearly fully match fit. He looked a real talent at Watford in the Champonship but dropped down to Colchester in League 2 and then to to a newly promoted Dutch side where he made just 11 appearances. Dont get me wrong, I am a big fan of his, think he will become one of the top player in the league so not just flashy as bringing in a lad who was starting from watford sounds.
Flores hadnt played in a few seasons after a serious car crash. So its still a bit of a work in progress for these lads. I'm not suggesting the Dundalk midfields v Rovers were 'weak' but it was far from full srength or even in good form. This isnt meant as a wind up but especially the games in Tallaght Rovers were on top of their game but by comparison Dundalk were not in form but ground out results. Rovers reliance on a small core of players will mean mean luck with injuries just the same as it was for Dundalk with so many players out. Now that these players are becoming available were are much better equipped for injuries and suspension than anyone else.

Each to their own on the quality of the current European opposition as time will ultimately give some sort of better indication.

Fair assessment Nesta, I've been saying since the beginning of the season that we needed luck with injuries / suspensions to have a chance.
The mad sending off of Grace against Bohs and resulting match against Dundalk with a 16 year old at left back and Finn at right back showed how thin we are.
Ifs and buts etc , we have been on a bad run with refs this season by comparison as well (all your penos AT the box :)
That is improving with the signing of Farrugia and O Neill but i can't see Jack Byrne being around for next season so thats a huge loss.
If the reported signing of Graham Burke is true he would be a decent replacement but won't dominate the way Jack can.
Next season if we are to try and get the title back finally will probably come down again to finding a hatstand that can score 15-20 goals

On the European opposition, co-efficients mean nothing as the teams that earned those points can be totally different.
Dundalks Co-efficient is earned mostly by the 2016 team which were a better team than the current team as an example.
Just on the basis of the one game i have seen for each team i would say Quarabag and Appolon look similarly dangerous on the ball going forward but Quarabag look much more solid at the back and the better team overall.
I suspect Appolon at their level will be a different team in Cyprus they strutted in Tallaght and looked shocked that we were taking the game to them, Quarabag gave Dundalk respect based on Dundalks pedigree.
Going to be an interesting week

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

Fair assessment Nesta, I've been saying since the beginning of the season that we needed luck with injuries / suspensions to have a chance.
The mad sending off of Grace against Bohs and resulting match against Dundalk with a 16 year old at left back and Finn at right back showed how thin we are.
Ifs and buts etc , we have been on a bad run with refs this season by comparison as well (all your penos AT the box :)
That is improving with the signing of Farrugia and O Neill but i can't see Jack Byrne being around for next season so thats a huge loss.
If the reported signing of Graham Burke is true he would be a decent replacement but won't dominate the way Jack can.
Next season if we are to try and get the title back finally will probably come down again to finding a hatstand that can score 15-20 goals

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Rovers inability to recruit a quality striker has been their achilles heal. Bradley famously ridiculed that by saying that claims Shamrock Rovers were off the title pace last season because they lacked a prolific scorer are ‘lazy throwaway comments’. He was since signed Graham Cummins to add to the earlier dud signing of Orhan Vojic, and pulled out of signing David McMillian, laughably saying Dundalk had won that race.

If Rovers are to become title winners in the near future, they will need better judgement or a big dollop of luck with a striker signing. Title winners also tend to have a strength in depth that Rovers don't have.

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

On the European opposition, co-efficients mean nothing as the teams that earned those points can be totally different.
Dundalks Co-efficient is earned mostly by the 2016 team which were a better team than the current team as an example.
Just on the basis of the one game i have seen for each team i would say Quarabag and Appolon look similarly dangerous on the ball going forward but Quarabag look much more solid at the back and the better team overall.
I suspect Appolon at their level will be a different team in Cyprus they strutted in Tallaght and looked shocked that we were taking the game to them, Quarabag gave Dundalk respect based on Dundalks pedigree.
Going to be an interesting week

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I understand why one would dismiss co-efficient if it doesn't support some spurious argument comparing teams.

But qualification as Airtricity League champions and sufficient co-efficient / ranking points to be seeded are critical for an team with ambition to make the group stages.

I think Rovers could earn more ranking points on Thursday night. I might even stifle a quiet cheer if that happens

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

On the European opposition, co-efficients mean nothing as the teams that earned those points can be totally different.
Dundalks Co-efficient is earned mostly by the 2016 team which were a better team than the current team as an example.

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I'd probably agree with this, but if you break it down its really the MF that was the difference. The defence is mostly the same, including the GK, up front its Hoban who replaced McMillan, so its really down to 3 players, Finn, O'Donnell and Horgan, the first two were absolutely made for the group stages.

I'd go one further and suggest the 2015 MF that Dundalk had was the best we ever had with the trio of Finn, O'Donnell and Towell, yet the 2016 side advanced so much further in europe, but it can be down to small margins and you need that little but of luck too, rememeber the 2016 euro run started with a 3-3 away goals on agg win v FH, if they have scored one more in ET, we were out out, no backdoor.

Also the following game how BATE didn't beat us by more than 1-0 away was amazing, home leg we were 2-0 up, and they were pressing hard for a goal for themselves to win it on agg (would have been 2-2 on Agg) then we caught them with a sloppy pass, and it was game over at 3-0.

I wasn't having a pop at DFC on the co-efficient point they are just a good example of how teams change but co-efficients stay for a long time.
I agree with you on the best midfield being Finn/Towell/O Donnell , arguably Towells goals are the hardest to replace and helped DFC where the Centreforward wasnt prolific.
Mceneff is playing that role for Rovers (8 goals in 10 matches , his injury was a massive blow) but we just don't have enough depth and i can't see the budget changing unless the club raises more funding or go's on an extended euro run.

Manus
Gannon Grace Boyle Kavanagh
Finn McEneff Towell O Donnell Byrne
Maguire


Best 11 Rovers DFC last few years....possible new thread (EZ is banned :) )

The Battle of Tallaght has been resolved.... Dundalk will play on the Tuesday regardless of what competition we're in, so Rovers will play Thursday if they progress. More of a pain the arse is the fact that we'll both be heading to Vienna/Bratislava at the same time pushing up each other's flight prices assuming Rovers, Qarabag and Slovan all win. The good news is that Dundalk fans will be able to snap up all the cheap flights after losing to Qarabag on Wednesday before Rovers go and eliminate Apollon on Thursday ;-)

Im hoping Qarabag do the same as BATE. They dominated us at home for 50/55mins could have been out of sight and its their first competative game. Now they have sussed us and can arrogantly think the game is over. Certainly their fans are suggesting its a formality. This all plays in to our hands and put in a BATE level of performance we chan stun them. The crowd will get on their backs etc so it is possible if not probable that we progress.

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

Rovers inability to recruit a quality striker has been their achilles heal. Bradley famously ridiculed that by saying that claims Shamrock Rovers were off the title pace last season because they lacked a prolific scorer are ‘lazy throwaway comments’. He was since signed Graham Cummins to add to the earlier dud signing of Orhan Vojic, and pulled out of signing David McMillian, laughably saying Dundalk had won that race.

If Rovers are to become title winners in the near future, they will need better judgement or a big dollop of luck with a striker signing. Title winners also tend to have a strength in depth that Rovers don't have.





I understand why one would dismiss co-efficient if it doesn't support some spurious argument comparing teams.

But qualification as Airtricity League champions and sufficient co-efficient / ranking points to be seeded are critical for an team with ambition to make the group stages.

I think Rovers could earn more ranking points on Thursday night. I might even stifle a quiet cheer if that happens

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currently Rovers have 3.750 which would now be enough to be seeded in that 1st EL QR. To be seeded in the CL 1QR they would have needed 5.5. If they do go through this round they will bump up to 4.25 likely too low to be seeded in next year's CL. Looking at their 5 year points' haul they had bad returns 4 & 5 years ago but they should be seeded in that first EL round next year which gives them a good chance to get points to replace out that low 0.5 with a 1.5. IF clubs were in a position to do proper 5 year plans things could really pay off (literally).

Dundalk's is as high as its ever been. It's now at 8.5 and with any luck this year up to 9.0. Which is a great height to be at because even if they lose their 3.0 in 2 years they are likely replacing it with a solid 1.5 or presumptive 2.0 (since they will be seeded again next year) so are still not like to lose their seeding any time soon.
It would be really great to have at least 2 teams properly competing at these stages.

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

Jeez rathfarnham hoop I hope foot.ie protect your anonymity when the secondary school kids come looking to sue you for defamation comparing them to the fixture scheduler in the FAI

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I'm slightly disappointed nobody seems to have picked up on the reference. Maybe I was a bit too vague.

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

Rovers inability to recruit a quality striker has been their achilles heal. Bradley famously ridiculed that by saying that claims Shamrock Rovers were off the title pace last season because they lacked a prolific scorer are ‘lazy throwaway comments’. He was since signed Graham Cummins to add to the earlier dud signing of Orhan Vojic, and pulled out of signing David McMillian, laughably saying Dundalk had won that race.

If Rovers are to become title winners in the near future, they will need better judgement or a big dollop of luck with a striker signing. Title winners also tend to have a strength in depth that Rovers don't have.





I understand why one would dismiss co-efficient if it doesn't support some spurious argument comparing teams.

But qualification as Airtricity League champions and sufficient co-efficient / ranking points to be seeded are critical for an team with ambition to make the group stages.

I think Rovers could earn more ranking points on Thursday night. I might even stifle a quiet cheer if that happens

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You say that as if there's tonnes of quality strikers going that were ignored. Aaron Greene is the joint 3rd top scorer in the league, 2nd is only a goal ahead and a loan player and half of 1st's goals have been penalties, the league in general is lacking goal scorers

As for dismissing coefficient, nobody is dismissing it, its just not completely accurate. As I said before whos better Porto of Ajax?

Dundalk and Rovers' second legs don't seem to be on Eirsport this week. (Although, bizarrely, the Rangers game is). Disappointing.

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Originally Posted by Straightstory

Dundalk and Rovers' second legs don't seem to be on Eirsport this week. (Although, bizarrely, the Rangers game is). Disappointing.

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Dundalk’s game is definitely on Eir. Dunno about Rovers though.

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Originally Posted by Yossarian

Dundalk’s game is definitely on Eir. Dunno about Rovers though.

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Dundalk are on Eir 1 at 9pm.

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

I wasn't having a pop at DFC on the co-efficient point they are just a good example of how teams change but co-efficients stay for a long time.
I agree with you on the best midfield being Finn/Towell/O Donnell , arguably Towells goals are the hardest to replace and helped DFC where the Centreforward wasnt prolific.
Mceneff is playing that role for Rovers (8 goals in 10 matches , his injury was a massive blow) but we just don't have enough depth and i can't see the budget changing unless the club raises more funding or go's on an extended euro run.

Manus
Gannon Grace Boyle Kavanagh
Finn McEneff Towell O Donnell Byrne
Maguire


Best 11 Rovers DFC last few years....possible new thread (EZ is banned :) )

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You're a gas man sbgawa, its only a bit of fun of course, but you've gone for 6 of the current Rovers team here, be interesting to see who makes it into the end of season toty.


Back to more important things, good to see the dates now confirmed for the next round, but I think a lot of DFC fans are assuming it will be Bratislava if its EL r3, the side from Kosovo only need to win 1-0 and they are through, and that's not a trip to attract too many.

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Originally Posted by D24Saint

Dundalk are on Eir 1 at 9pm.

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Its 6pm Irish time, 9pm local.

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

I wasn't having a pop at DFC on the co-efficient point they are just a good example of how teams change but co-efficients stay for a long time.
I agree with you on the best midfield being Finn/Towell/O Donnell , arguably Towells goals are the hardest to replace and helped DFC where the Centreforward wasnt prolific.
Mceneff is playing that role for Rovers (8 goals in 10 matches , his injury was a massive blow) but we just don't have enough depth and i can't see the budget changing unless the club raises more funding or go's on an extended euro run.

Manus
Gannon Grace Boyle Kavanagh
Finn McEneff Towell O Donnell Byrne
Maguire


Best 11 Rovers DFC last few years....possible new thread (EZ is banned :) )

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Agreed, Sean Maguire's five games zero goals contribution for Dundalk has been vastly underrated for too long

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

Manus
Gannon Grace Boyle Kavanagh
Finn McEneff Towell O Donnell Byrne
Maguire

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If you insist on Ethan, at least play him in his normal position

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Originally Posted by seand

Agreed, Sean Maguire's five games zero goals contribution for Dundalk has been vastly underrated for too long

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Come on seand, surely you remember the goal he scored against Sligo? Anyway moving Kurtis from the left wing to centre forward would probably improve sbgawa's side

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Originally Posted by seand

Agreed, Sean Maguire's five games zero goals contribution for Dundalk has been vastly underrated for too long

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I was kinda taking it that his contribution for cork would make him eligible for this team as a dundalk man. Kind of like Trevor brooking might make an all time st pats team despite just the one appearance. :)

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

Manus
Gannon Grace Boyle Kavanagh
Finn McEneff Towell O Donnell Byrne
Maguire

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And I though PC was the official Rovers troll....

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

If you insist on Ethan, at least play him in his normal position

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-------------Manus-------------

B Gannon Grace Kavanagh
---O------------------------------
Finn Y McEneff Towell O Donnell Byrne
----L----------------------------
E ​------------Maguire

Is the Rovers game on TV anywhere?

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

Is the Rovers game on TV anywhere?

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I heard it should be on a ppv channel in Cyprus so should get it on skorlive.com

Had a look at Qarabag's ground there. 3 sided. Capacity of around 6,000. Will be like a Tallaght away from home (away from home) for Dundalk! Unless it's being played in the Tofiq Bahramarov, which seems unlikely.

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Originally Posted by CorribsideSteve

Had a look at Qarabag's ground there. 3 sided. Capacity of around 6,000. Will be like a Tallaght away from home (away from home) for Dundalk! Unless it's being played in the Tofiq Bahramarov, which seems unlikely.

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It will be play in the Dalga Arena - it appears to be 4 sided.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddcsVPHoZ94


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalga_Arena

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

Manus
Gannon Grace Boyle Kavanagh
Finn McEneff Towell O Donnell Byrne
Maguire


Best 11 Rovers DFC last few years....possible new thread (EZ is banned :) )

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In a spirit of detente I proposed the following alternative eleven, naturally dominated by Rovers players over the last 3 years. A couple of token dual Rovers / Dundalk players are included

Tomer Chencinski

Ethan Boyle | Roberto Lopes | Ally Gilchrist | Luke Byrne

Darren Meenan | David McAllister | Ryan Connolly | Darren Clarke

Michael O'Connor | Gary Shaw

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

It will be play in the Dalga Arena - it appears to be 4 sided.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddcsVPHoZ94



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalga_Arena

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Cheers. I had assumed it would be played at the three sided Azersun. Seems as though they have a choice over a few Stadiums in the city of Baku. Early start vital for Dundalk. Not absolutely necessary, but the earlier to get at these guys and let them know it won't be easy would be lovely to see.

33 deg Wednesday, nice

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

Rovers are constantly improving along with Bradley as a manager. The gap is closing but not at a rate that has Dundalk fans really looking over the shoulders yet. A couple of shrewd signings in the close season could change that quickly. I'm sure I will be reminded of saying this if we throw away this league title!!!

There is an unprecedented level of depth of squad probably ever in LoI. But with that even in mind we had 7 midfielders out injured early/'mid' season and a number that were long term. Flores and Murray were not fit and had reoccuring injuries as a result. We have played a left fullback and a central defender in midfield as a result and a right full back in right midfield. That we have yet to put in a really good performance is an indication of the disruption to the squad, players out of position, and players being risked - playing injured with no other choice. It's worth considering the importance of the players that were out of games also - Benson, McEleney, McGrath, Murray, Flores, Mountney, Shields for 3 weeks(?) so a good few games with this fixture list, Folan, Dummigan from trying to get match fit and so on. With different but significant combinations granted. All of Benson, McEleney, McGrath, Murray, Flores, Mountney, Shields have had to play rushed back from injury. Murray and Flores never got the chance to get match fit.

Murray now is looking like he is getting both injury free cuurently and is nearly fully match fit. He looked a real talent at Watford in the Champonship but dropped down to Colchester in League 2 and then to to a newly promoted Dutch side where he made just 11 appearances. Dont get me wrong, I am a big fan of his, think he will become one of the top player in the league so not just flashy as bringing in a lad who was starting from watford sounds.
Flores hadnt played in a few seasons after a serious car crash. So its still a bit of a work in progress for these lads. I'm not suggesting the Dundalk midfields v Rovers were 'weak' but it was far from full srength or even in good form. This isnt meant as a wind up but especially the games in Tallaght Rovers were on top of their game but by comparison Dundalk were not in form but ground out results. Rovers reliance on a small core of players will mean mean luck with injuries just the same as it was for Dundalk with so many players out. Now that these players are becoming available were are much better equipped for injuries and suspension than anyone else.

Each to their own on the quality of the current European opposition as time will ultimately give some sort of better indication.

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Would agree with all of that. As Michael O'Neill was fond of saying, it's a 14 man game and Dundalk have the stronger 14. For the first time in this era of Dundalk dominance I think the two strongest 11s are close enough with the obvious difference being up front and that's cost us plenty of points.

As you say, a few shrewd signings could swing things. If we signed 2/3 of the type and calibre of Gannon, Duffy and Hoban we might catch you but until then I think you'll dig out games even when you don't play well while we drop points when our game plan doesn't work and we have no bench to turn to. It's a bit better now with O'Neill and Farrugia to come in but it's not a patch on the depth of Dundalk's. Frightening to think you might be adding Elbouzedi and it sounds like Bolger won't be with us next season.

Very worried about the game this week if Joey O'Brien doesn't recover from the knock he picked up in Cork. We ended up with Ethan Boyle playing at left back in that game as well.....proof right there of the different squad's relative depth. You brought in new faces and beat Pat's, we played close to our best available 11 and drew with Cork.

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Originally Posted by pateen

33 deg Wednesday, nice

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It will 'drop' to 25c at kick off at 9pm local time, will be dark then also, still hot though, but Dundalk trained twice in Spain this season, that should help.

Interesting to note that a 4th sub was allowed in Riga for the ET period, this must be a new rule for european games in ET.

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Originally Posted by oriel

It will 'drop' to 25c at kick off at 9pm local time, will be dark then also, still hot though, but Dundalk trained twice in Spain this season, that should help.

Interesting to note that a 4th sub was allowed in Riga for the ET period, this must be a new rule for european games in ET.

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That rule was introduced last year, if not the year before that.

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Originally Posted by oriel

It will 'drop' to 25c at kick off at 9pm local time, will be dark then also, still hot though, but Dundalk trained twice in Spain this season, that should help.

Interesting to note that a 4th sub was allowed in Riga for the ET period, this must be a new rule for european games in ET.

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Vinny Perth believes his Dundalk players will cope with conditions in Baku - having acclimatised in Spain.
Temperatures in Azerbaijan are in the mid 30s by day and will drop into the 20s by kick-off tomorrow.



But Perth reckons the team’s warm weather training camp in Spain during the mini summer break will stand to them.

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https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soc...-baku-18796822

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

That rule was introduced last year, if not the year before that.

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Came in last season - first instance was Champions League pre-qualifying (which was actually before the World Cup knock-out rounds, where it was also allowed)

In all honestly, Dundalk are going to it very tough tomorrow evening, it they can hold out to half time cause they going to really be up against it, then it might get interesting. Think they will lose 2-0 tomorrow night.

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

Is the Rovers game on TV anywhere?

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€5.99 for the live stream.

https://shamrockrovers.ie/livestream...LPD9NBX4vJyygE

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Originally Posted by swinfordfc

In all honestly, Dundalk are going to it very tough tomorrow evening, it they can hold out to half time cause they going to really be up against it, then it might get interesting. Think they will lose 2-0 tomorrow night.

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I don't think you'll find anyone who will disagree with this ! Toughest match since away to Zenit, and polar opposities too in the conditions, quite literally, it was well below zero that night at kick off.

I think Dundalk will score, hopefully it will be at a key time of the game, keepinf them scoreless for as long as possible, and for more than 4 mins this time would be nice !

APOEL and Slovan easily winning this evening, and they'll play Dundalk if they win/lose tomorrow respectively

I think the heat is gonna be a massive factor for both games. Going to be seriously tough. Forecast to be 29C at 8pm in both Limasol and Baku.
Its incredibly hard to play a match in anything over 20C...

"They are a very strong team. I think they have a higher ranking that AC Milan in Europe so that just shows you what kind of class they are".

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019/0730/1066102-mcgrath-confident-dundalk-can-cope-with-qarabag/

weighing in on the debate. Qarabag > AC Milan :D

Also Tel-Aviv (16.00) have been knocked out by much lower unseeded Cluj from Romania (3.5); who in the previous round were also unseeded against the Kazakhstan team, Astana, who seeded at 27.5 are also higher than Qarabag (22.0)...

Couldn't resist checking that!

Level with them in the coefficient club rankings, though only because Milan have only been in Europe twice in the past five years. Mad drop off from being in the knock out stages of the Champions League six years ago.