According to some Italian friends of mine he makes about as much sense in Italian.Quote:
Originally Posted by MeathDrog
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According to some Italian friends of mine he makes about as much sense in Italian.Quote:
Originally Posted by MeathDrog
[QUOTE=At the moment, the players are playing well. But, in the future... I don't forget these players. I don't forget also Stephen Ireland. He is important.
[/QUOTE]
Important to who Trap...Manchester City??? Why on earth does he bring up Stephen Irelands name at any opportunity he can. I wish he spent less time bothering about a man that couldn't care less about us and more time patching up his differences with a player that has said he would swim the Irish sea to play for us!
If Trap doesn't see him as part of his plans for now I'm happy enough with that , Sure I'd like him in the squad but things are going well now so Trap deserves some leeway for his decisions.
Trap is 70 yrs of age, im pretty sure it must be a little more difficult to pick these things up that quickly at that age.
If that's true then is it not also fair to say that alot has changed or been proved about Andy Reid since he was last in the squad to make that stance redundant.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
He has dealt with it 100% impecably. He's hardly gonna complain about not being in the team, if he hasn't complained about not being in the squad. He's addressed some fitness issues. Any media bytes attributed to him have been wholly positive. If anything he should be set as a benchmark for any player that has fallen out of favour and rewarded as such with a recall. Regardless of what position we consider his best he is without doubt one of the best 23 players availible to us. And whilst he may not fit Trapps tactics, he offers something currently not availible to us to be utilised as a Plan B or C...
Irrational I know, but I actually resent Trap for how he's dealing with this. It's insulting our inteligence suggesting Andy Keogh offer more in wide positions than Reid. I expect that stuff from Brian Cowan or John Delany... If Reids not involved and it's counter productive to say fully why, say nothing at all. What we're being fed is just ridiculous.
Since when did building a squad mean you pick the 23 best players. If that was the case any muppet could be the manager.
We could be level/losing to Montenegro with 10/20 mins to go, needing to score once or even twice to have any chance of making the playoff. Our central midfield options to change the match are Rowlands and Miller. Our wing options are Keogh and Lawrence. If Trap really has no problem with Reid, as he claims, then this really is footballing stupidity of the highest order. I'm as impressed as anybody with the results he's got with this average team, and I'm delighted we're going to have him for another two years, but I do find this hard to take.
Reid's Ireland days do seem numbered under Trapattoni. I suspect Brady would be pushing for Reid's inclusion in "normal circumstances". But whatever happened in Germany has obviously coloured squad decision making.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_peepee
I have to say I agree with this.
According to the Indo Trap said he'd have a look at Reid in a game if we'd already qualified, that's no reason not to have him in teh squad though.
Look lads, all this bleating over it is in vain, Andy is Trap's Dave O'Leary, it's on his head and will be used a stick to beat him with if we don't qualify but so be it.
Funny how nobody picked up on the Irish Times' coverage of this story today.
I'm at an airport & stuck for time but it's something like Emmet Malone suggesting that Reid is a bit too much of a free spirit and Trapp agreeing, saying he has a system and can't afford to experiment. Trapp says if/once qualified he can affort to experiment again. Malone also offers Geysir's view that initially Reid (or the mad bald chav) could pplay off a main striker but now Folan or Best can offer the something different option.
There's also a strong suggestion that Reid wasn't as injured as he said he was for Trapp's initial Portugal training camp, not the first time I've heard this.
I would have thought that building a squad involves picking the best 23 players to sustain the prefered tactic and balance in the first eleven whilst offering viable options to react to change at short notice.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
Andy Reid belongs in any Irish 23 regardless of what way it's dressed up or down.Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_peepee
And I don't buy into the whole difficult to have around theory any more, based purely on his conduct since. And that other clown at City would be even more disruptive without a shadow of a doubt, yet apparently Trapp see's fit to try bring him back.
It's personal for Trap... It may even be a cultural thing (Do Italians do residence bars and sing songs? Never mind profesional Athletes? I dunno). It's all speculation. But to suggest he's being ommitted due to football reasons is just rubbish.
Reid speaks. Saying the right things
He told the Journal: 'I have no control over being selected for Ireland - the only thing I can control is to perform for Sunderland.
'That is the only response open to me. I can't sit in my house and worry about not getting into the Ireland squad. I don't pick the Ireland squad.
'I'm just concentrating on giving everything for Sunderland and hopefully the Ireland manager will notice my performances. As far as I am concerned, my Ireland career isn't over.
'I love playing for Ireland and if the opportunity came to play, I would be delighted.'
Here's the link to that:
http://www.football365.com/story/0,1...615638,00.html
Sterling attitude. Fast becoming my favourite on a par with Doyler just because of such a great, determined and prud attitude. He'll play again with that approach...
full article here: http://www.journallive.co.uk/safc/sa...34-24870326/2/
im worried he wont be included if we do qualify... Martin Rowlands??? you might as well add me to the squad!!!
Agreed. Perfect response from A. Reid. Not much more he can do, except what he is doing already.Mirror that with Trap, who says something ridiculous every time he opens his mouth.Quote:
Originally Posted by republicofwhite
For a man with so many medals and experience (a fact that we are constantly reminded of) I often wonder where some of his opinions about players comes from....his insistence that Andy keogh is a 'winger', even though he is clearly not comfortable in this position and is playing really well upfront this season is a perfect example of this.
So he has offered the full Irish there really then stutts hasn't he?! Sure we could all do that in fairness - and more importantly have done. I beleive it was EB that saw reid as the player behind the front two that Trap might play him as IIRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I dont think there is anything new there we didn't already know. Perhaps maybe that he will call in him up for the first friendly if we qualify or if we dont qualify.
If we dont qualify, and he calls him up, he is going to be under severe pressure. I could see him not calling him up for this reason alone!
Juventus:Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
Italian League: 1976-77, 1977-78, 1980-81, 1981-82, 1983-84, 1985-86
Italian Cup: 1978-79, 1982-83
European Cup: 1984-85
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 1984
UEFA Cup: 1977, 1993
European Super Cup: 1984
Intercontinental Cup: 1985
Internazionale:
Italian League: 1988-89
UEFA Cup: 1991
Bayern Munich:
German League: 1996-97
German Cup: 1997-98
S.L. Benfica:
Portuguese League: 2004-05
Red Bull Salzburg:
Austrian League: 2006-07
The last thing of note he won was the Uefa Cup in 1991 in my eyes. Winning the German League with the Bayern Munich team of the late 90s was almost expected, no matter who was in charge.
The Portuguese league and the Austrian league are powder puff. That almost 20 years ago. He is an old, stubborn man. The FAI should have waited until qualifying was over before signing him for another 2 year deal.
so? Winning the Premier League with the Manchester United team of the late 90's was almost expected, no matter who was in chargeQuote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
The fact that Bayern had won the league once in the 6 season before he went back in 96/97 (including one of his own I'll admit) and Porto won the UEFA Cup in 2003 and Champions League in 2004 suggests that you are talking boll0x my friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
Considering Sporting Lisboa and FC Porto are in there; yeah, I would imagine that winning the Portuguese league with Benfica would be no mean feat.
How many of Porto's Champs league winning team were still at the club for the 2004/5 season?? And where was The Special One??Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
Sure a few of their big names had gone but a general dismissal of a league that had provided winners for the 2 main European trophies the previous two seasons does nothing but make you look foolish regardless of the special ones involvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
I have to agree with drumcondra on this one weld. To dismiss the Benfica/Salzburg achievements because of their poor league is just silly really. That's like saying if he won the SPL with Hearts it doesn't matter cos the league is rubbish.
look, we're getting way off the point here. Sure he has won things, a lot of things actually but by the same token he has also left or been sacked from the same listed positions. There is no dispute he is a decorated and capable manager. At the same time he is not, nor should he be, immune from questioning and criticism over his squad selections, team selections and tactics. Otherwise we may as well shut the forum down. I dont understand why some posters are so quick to jump to his defense anytime an issue is raised, that defense consisting of saying Trap has more medals than any of us.
Someone mentioned that if we fail to qualify then we can evaluate how excluding Andy Reid harmed our chances. Thats a flawed logic. We can only evaluate based on the players that were selected and their performance. Who knows what Andy might have brought to our team over the last year? Truth is, we will never know because he wasnt there.
The issue at play here is the omission of a very gifted and determined player from an Irish squad over a very minor matter. Reidy has learnt the lessons and accepted the criticisms of his play, his weight etc, has shown marked improvements all round and yet he continues to be ignored by his national team manager. It strikes me as extreme pettiness from Trappatoni. It is such a pity, Reid is an excellent talent and has been a great servant to our national side.
The fact of the matter is that he was in and out of a (struggling) Sunderland team last season, and overweight.
He's played 5 fantastic games this year, and long may it continue, but it is ONLY 5 games. Trap has a long-term vision of the squad, and the fact of the matter is that in Trap's eyes, he probably sees this start by Andy as simply a good run of form, rather than his actual level of ability.
I think it's fairly evident from Trap's selections since his appointment that he doesn't pick players based on form, but rather on how he feels about their actual ability, and how he feels they will fit into his system.
Now all of this said, I would have had Andy Reid in the squad from day one, fat or not, in form for club or not, because I feel he offers something different, if not in the starting XI, then at least on the bench.
By posting his honours I think you've made the opposite of the point you were trying to makeQuote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
Would Andy Reid have lost weight if Trap hadn't dropped him?
Should Andy Reid thank Trap if he's going to South Africa lean, fit and with a fantastic season behind him?
What about Andy Keogh and Shane Long being considered better wingers than him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Ditto with the above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
Over the past 2/3 years he has been our best performer in central midfield after Steven Reid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brendan 82
Spot on. Nobody is infallible. People that use that line of argument do not have a sufficient knowledge of football to debate the point been made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yard of Pace
His fitness has never been a problem though, and while he could have done with losing weight before now it was never such an issue that it prevented him having the required fitness levels to compete at international level.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
And if Strunz had got off his backside, maybe Bayern would have won the title in 97/98 :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
Ive had plenty of rants on this site about just that, but my point was when I wrote that was that Rowlands was being called up to replace a central midfielder and I could understand Trap not considering Reid in the that position because of him playing on the wing this season..... but now that Duff is out and he still hasnt got a call up Im seriously p1ssed off about itQuote:
Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge
This is correct, I'd lose respect in any manager if their opinion of a player was changed entirely because of a handful of good performances. And if you take the last two years Duff, Hunt, McGeady and Lawrence have been clear cut better than Andy has, so its no "travesty" that he's behind those guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
If he keeps doing what he's doing month after month I don't think he'll be ignored, trap said he'd try him out in a friendly but our 2 most cruical games in years is not the venue for trying out a player the manager is uncertain of their use.
Glen Whelan, Keith Andrews, even Stephen Hunt wasn't getting into the Reading team in the Ch'Ship at stages last year. A fair whack of Reids absences were down to injury too (allthough that may be indirectly related to his condition at the time). It kind of ties in with your second point that Trapp doesn't base his decisions on form. His appearences for Sunderland wouldn't have been a factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
I agree with you on the second point too, but Reid was involved in the Squads. He didn't become a different player prior to being omitted. There's other non footballing reasons for this omission, which in allot of cases may be valid, but Rieds conduct since warrants a decision based purely on what he can bring to the team on the pitch... Which is definately more than Andy Keogh could in a wide position.
I don't normally post on this forum, kind of stick to the LOI stuff because I'm a bit disillusioned with the national team setup, but just thought I'd post s few points.
Firstly, Trapattoni has a good club management record. But get this, it doesn't count for anything. That's right, and here's why. Club management is a different game, you buy the players you want to play the system you think will win you the most games, at least you can do that when you manage the likes of Inter and Bayern. You don't have that luxury when you manage an international team, so you make do with the best you have.
Secondly, Trappatoni has only managed Italy at an international level. The last time I checked we don't have a domestic league the level of Serie A, and we certainly don't have players the likes of Del Piero, Totti and Vieri to call on. Italy didn't do too great in the 2002 World Cup, the only major championship that Trappatoni was their manager for (please let me be right here, I know I'll get mauled if I'm not!).
Thirdly, Andy Reid has played 5 fantastic games this season. Recently. You pick your best on their current form. If Shay Given was having a torrid time and he'd let in 30 in his last few games you'd drop him. If Andy Reid is having a great time you pick him, simple as.
No offence to Rowlands, the lad gets called up so he has to take his opportunity, but he shouldn't be getting called up just because Trappatoni has an axe to grind.
Folan had hardly kicked a ball when he was brought in for the Italy game and set up the equalizer.Quote:
Originally Posted by rerun
Robbie Keane was treated like sh*t by Benitez and he was in terrible form as a result during his time with Liverpool, but he still played very well for us.
Whelan wasn't starting for Stoke when he was made a starter by Trap, and he scored a key goal against Georgia, and went on to win and keep his place in the Stoke team.
Form is important, and I'd have Andy in the squad for reasons I've mentioned above, but ultimately Trap picks the squad based on HIS evaluation of their ability, not the evaluations made by pundits, fans, or managers in the English leagues.
So far, I'd say it has worked well for the most part, even though I'm a huge Andy fan and feel he should be in the squad.
Maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
Maybe, its some pervese reverse psychology logic on traps part, making andy play to the top of his game consistently, keeping on top of his weight and dangling the carrot in front of him as though to say "well boy, keep up the good work, and this carrot might eventually be yours"...
The worrying part for me is that he throws him in with Lee Carsley when talking about players that he's keeping an eye on, as I really don't think Carsley has any future with our squad.
Agreed!!Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
I don't see any significance to Trap mentioning Carsley.
He is a player that Trap has decided not to call up to the squad from the beginning but he is a player who has served us to the best of his ability. Carsley came out of retirement for the last campaign and offered that he would make himself available to Trap should he be needed. Trap is simply acknowledging that fact as a mark of respect.
With the unfortunate injury to Rowland, who actually did ok when he came on against the Italians and put himself in the frame for a squad place, and depending how serious the injury is, Trap will need more midfield cover.
This probably puts Reid in the frame.
However as we all know and Tony O'Donaghoe found out, if you keep mentioning Andy Reid to him, he just loses his temper and storms off.
If everyone stopped mentioning Andy Reid, it would improve Reid's chances a lot.
But when people go on about Andy Reid this and Andy Reid that, and Andy Reid would have done it this way, Trap probably feels he needs to prove who the manager is and who picks the team.