League of Ireland in Europe 2014

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

Sorry not a hope:) Ludogorets had an amazing run last season, and knocked out a few big hitters in the Europa, and BATE are very well funded. 40th in the Europe for the LOI is about right I think, the LOI has gone backward in years while these leagues have improved steadily.

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How exactly has the league gone backwards?

How exactly is having four competive teams worse than one, or two, team(s) going on a great run?

This year was the third best (and the other two had only three teams) points wise.
Sure we're back at same position as end of 03/04, but if the progress of this year can be repeated with some consistency (maybe not every year, but should be the minimum standard we aspire to) then we're in a better position going forward.

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Originally Posted by GypsyBlackCat

Drogheda almost knocked Malmo out last season. I know Cork knocked them out a few years ago but that was back 2005. As for BATE and APOEL (didn't Cork knock them out in the CL?) it just goes to show that if a LoI club can break into the groups stages they can be set-up for life! Not so long ago if one of of our clubs got any of them you'd fancy are chances!

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Malmo was 2005 in the Intertoto Cup. 3-1 and 1-0 to City. Went on to knock out NEC Nijmejgen (0-0 and 1-0) before losing to Nantes (1-3 and 1-1) in the Quarter Finals.
We played Apollon Limassol, not APOEL, in the Champions League in 2006, we won 1-0 at the Cross (Billy Woods) and drew 1-1 in Cyprus (Dan Murray header to tie the match and win the tie)

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Originally Posted by A N Mouse

How exactly has the league gone backwards?

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We were ranked 29th in Europe five years ago, and now we're 40th?

Not beating Dutch or Swedish teams like we used to.

I think it's a fair enough comment.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

We were ranked 29th in Europe five years ago, and now we're 40th?

Not beating Dutch or Swedish teams like we used to.

I think it's a fair enough comment.

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Arguably getting tougher draws than back then? Easy to rise up the rankings when playing first round qualifying rather than entering at second round. Not exactly getting hammered by Welsh teams anymore either.

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Originally Posted by A N Mouse

How exactly has the league gone backwards?

How exactly is having four competive teams worse than one, or two, team(s) going on a great run?

This year was the third best (and the other two had only three teams) points wise.
Sure we're back at same position as end of 03/04, but if the progress of this year can be repeated with some consistency (maybe not every year, but should be the minimum standard we aspire to) then we're in a better position going forward.

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The standard the last few years hasnt been great in all honesty. Dundalk were great this year, sure, but if you look at some of those teams that LOI clubs were beating a few years ago and now look at them? The UEFA stats dont lie.

By the way I would love if LOI teams improved, just that we have differing opinions on what constitutes progress:)

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

The standard the last few years hasnt been great in all honesty. Dundalk were great this year, sure, but if you look at some of those teams that LOI clubs were beating a few years ago and now look at them? The UEFA stats dont lie.

By the way I would love if LOI teams improved, just that we have differing opinions on what constitutes progress:)

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Maybe other national associations have actually invested in their leagues, thus making them much stronger?

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Maybe other national associations have actually invested in their leagues, thus making them much stronger?

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I agree. And then people wonder why our national team is so bad

I think it's as much about the lack of well qualified coaches than investment in the league itself. We're just not producing the players.

Posted on this a while ago- after pieces described by Junior here: http://foot.ie/threads/173000-Trap-O...=1#post1708600 http://foot.ie/threads/173000-Trap-O...=1#post1708693

ratio's of UEFA qualified coaches to active players

Spain 1:17
Italy 1:48
France 1:96
Germany 1:150
Greece 1:135
England 1:812

For Ireland the best figure I came up with was 1276:1. As pointed out at the time, many young footballers never meet a proper coach until they're already well through their development years.

We may be improving, but other countries have been and continue to improve faster.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Arguably getting tougher draws than back then? Easy to rise up the rankings when playing first round qualifying rather than entering at second round. Not exactly getting hammered by Welsh teams anymore either.

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Aberystwyth? Banga? Jeunesse as a seed? Easiest qualifying draw ever for the LoI this season.

Anyway, if the draws have been rejigged and you drop by getting a bye into round 1, that'll go for all countries. We've still dropped from 29th to 40th when compared to the other countries playing in the exact same tournament.

Worth noting that two Cypriot teams have put out two Russian teams in the Europa league today. Apollon Limassol won 4-1 away to Lokomotiv Moscow. (To put that in context, the other Russian team just knocked out Real Sociedad) That's three Cypriot teams in the groups (including the CL), with the fourth just 2-1 down against Spurs. We need some of what they're having.

Edit - shut my mouth. Dinamo Moscow score deep, deep into extratime (livescore showing into the 11th minute now?) to put Omonia out. Still, what are they doing that we can do?

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Edit - shut my mouth. Dinamo Moscow score deep, deep into extratime (livescore showing into the 11th minute now?) to put Omonia out. Still, what are they doing that we can do?

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Well Cypriots are going to matches for one and Wealthy Cypriots are investing in clubs. Neither of which happens here. Stating the obvious I know!

Now Dundalk if you're going to get a fine. Make sure it's worth it!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwJf1lSIQAA2DjL.jpg:large

That's an impressive banner. Fair dues.

They'll get done for racism against capitalist pigs.

As impressive as that banner is, it makes them look like fools for ridiculing UEFA when they went by the book.

Did they? When, exactly?
:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Did they? When, exactly?
:rolleyes:

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I think he means UEFA went by the book in awarding Celtic a 3-0 victory. It's with their own club those Legia fans should be livid. It's a visually-impressive display and all that - there's even truth in the suggestion that UEFA have a liking for money - but it's just idiotic victim-playing really. Celtic weren't awarded a 3-0 victory by UEFA because it was more profitable for UEFA to do so; it was because Legia broke a regulation for which the only punishment stipulated was the match being declared forfeit. Legia gave UEFA no choice in the matter.

I'd imagine, from a Leiga perspective, they're convinced that had a larger club fallen foul of this rule, a different outcome would have been seen. I find it hard not to believe at least partial truth in this possibility.

Yet it's nonsense, as we've seen when Stuttgart fell foul of it back in 1992.

The standard of the league has dropped in recent years but I think we are seen an up turn. The Cypriot league is the example we should look at. They've invested into their league and clubs. But in Ireland we like to put the roof on the house before we built the foundations.

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Originally Posted by ger121

Now Dundalk if you're going to get a fine. Make sure it's worth it!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwJf1lSIQAA2DjL.jpg:large

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For some reason this one from the same game seems to not be getting the same amount of press:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwJchdXCcAAgpGY.jpg

How could anyone hate Jimi Hendrix? :(

So how did the LOI conquerors fare in their European exploits? Not awfully well, it has to be said.

Legia, after their mess in the CL qualified for the Europa Group stage last night after a 3-0 aggregate win over Aktobe of Kazakhstan.

Hajduk Split couldn't overturn a 2-1 first leg loss against Dnipro of Ukraine and drew 0-0 in Split.

Shakhtyor Soligorsk had a respectable result in The Netherlands against PSV Eindhoven with a 1-0 loss, but got beaten 2-0 at home. 3-0 aggregate score put them out.

Rosenborg were put out in Q3 by Turkish side Karabukspor on away goals after a 1-1 home draw. Karabukspor were themselves put out in the play-off round on penalties by St Etienne of France after each winning 1-0 in their home ties.


Also, the Icelandic dream came to an emphatic end after Stjarnan were beaten 9-0 on aggregate against Inter Milan.

Should be pointed Soligorsk were 0-0 until the 89th minute. Must have been caught on the break trying to get an equaliser. They also hammered a Belgian side in the last round (and another Belgian side put out Hull)

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Originally Posted by colonelwest

For some reason this one from the same game seems to not be getting the same amount of press:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwJchdXCcAAgpGY.jpg

How could anyone hate Jimi Hendrix? :(

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It's a misundertanding. They hope to unveil Malky Mackay as their new Head Coach.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Aberystwyth? Banga? Jeunesse as a seed? Easiest qualifying draw ever for the LoI this season.

Anyway, if the draws have been rejigged and you drop by getting a bye into round 1, that'll go for all countries. We've still dropped from 29th to 40th when compared to the other countries playing in the exact same tournament.

Worth noting that two Cypriot teams have put out two Russian teams in the Europa league today. Apollon Limassol won 4-1 away to Lokomotiv Moscow. (To put that in context, the other Russian team just knocked out Real Sociedad) That's three Cypriot teams in the groups (including the CL), with the fourth just 2-1 down against Spurs. We need some of what they're having.

Edit - shut my mouth. Dinamo Moscow score deep, deep into extratime (livescore showing into the 11th minute now?) to put Omonia out. Still, what are they doing that we can do?

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So we've dropped from our highest ever position :o which no matter how you want to butter it was simply unsustainable , to exactly where we where ten years ago, before any improvement started.

We almost had three clubs competive, when suddenly we had four clubs in the competitions.

To have all four clubs contribute positively, is progress. It remains to be seen if it's repeatable.

Look at this chart from bert's site.

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/plots.html

There's a magic barrier about 29th, only Belarus seem to have passed through it. The only other Country that has not stood still (or gone backward) in those standings is Cyprus, - they're in a decent position now, but unless they get some results in the groups, they could drop back to the mid twenties when they lose their good year.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

I think he means UEFA went by the book in awarding Celtic a 3-0 victory. It's with their own club those Legia fans should be livid. It's a visually-impressive display and all that - there's even truth in the suggestion that UEFA have a liking for money - but it's just idiotic victim-playing really. Celtic weren't awarded a 3-0 victory by UEFA because it was more profitable for UEFA to do so; it was because Legia broke a regulation for which the only punishment stipulated was the match being declared forfeit. Legia gave UEFA no choice in the matter.

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Well they're morons for their consistent whining. Them and their fascist fans...
I liked this quote from elsewhere.

"I assume if Legia fans feel so strongly about the sentiment behind the banner, they will lobby their club to refuse the invitation to the Champions League next season should they qualify. And should the club ignore the lobbying, the fans will refuse to attend the fixtures. After all, it’s not football that matters in UEFA’s world, it’s the money and that's an agenda that Legia has a long, proud and justly famous history in combating."

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Originally Posted by colonelwest

For some reason this one from the same game seems to not be getting the same amount of press:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwJchdXCcAAgpGY.jpg

How could anyone hate Jimi Hendrix? :(

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Isn't that a youthful Michael Jackson? I understand they were big fans of older Michael Jackson.

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Originally Posted by A N Mouse

So we've dropped from our highest ever position :o which no matter how you want to butter it was simply unsustainable

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So we agree we've gone backwards in the past few years. In the main because where we were was unsustainable. I think bennocelt's comment was fair enough.

I suppose to be fair, LOI teams are definitely more competitive in games these days. Long gone are the awful 10-0 agg trashings of yesteryear.

Was a bit disheartening when a club from a country I couldn't point to on a map could beat Pats 10-0 on aggregate. Things have improved, but we're kidding ourselves if we thing they are still going that way.

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

I suppose to be fair, LOI teams are definitely more competitive in games these days. Long gone are the awful 10-0 agg trashings of yesteryear.

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In spite of the first-leg heroics, Pat's were beaten by Legia by the not-so-respectable aggregate score of 6-1. Soligursk also beat Derry by the same aggregate score. 6-1 isn't as bad as a 10-0 thrashing, granted, but it's the type of seemingly-uncompetitive scoreline we'd also rather have left in yesteryear.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

In spite of the first-leg heroics, Pat's were beaten by Legia by the not-so-respectable aggregate score of 6-1. Soligursk also beat Derry by the same aggregate score. 6-1 isn't as bad as a 10-0 thrashing, granted, but it's the type of seemingly-uncompetitive scoreline we'd also rather have left in yesteryear.

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Yeah thats true but in both games the LOI teams were competitive and it only became a goalfest when it looked likely neither would go through. If Derry had a defence they could easily have dispatched of that team, and the St Pats heads totally dropped after the first goal in Tallaght.

It looks like that Shamrock Rovers title of the 'Worst Europa League Group Stage Team in a single season' is perhaps coming to an end. Rovers achieved 0-0-6, GD 4-19 (-15). At the moment, Slovan Bratislava have a record 0-0-5, GD 1-17 (-16). Slovan only have to travel to Italy to face Napoli, who have to win to top their group, so maybe some hope for Rovers fans. :D

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Originally Posted by TheBoss

It looks like that Shamrock Rovers title of the 'Worst Europa League Group Stage Team in a single season' is perhaps coming to an end. Rovers achieved 0-0-6, GD 4-19 (-15). At the moment, Slovan Bratislava have a record 0-0-5, GD 1-17 (-16). Slovan only have to travel to Italy to face Napoli, who have to win to top their group, so maybe some hope for Rovers fans. :D

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I posted this earlier too in the World Football forum. Can't seen them getting anything. They've only scored once in 5 games and conceded an average of over 3.

Just had a look at the UEFA coefficient tables. Liechtenstein, a country WITHOUT a national league, are ranked higher than us.

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociatio...kings/country/

Gah.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Just had a look at the UEFA coefficient tables. Liechtenstein, a country WITHOUT a national league, are ranked higher than us.

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociatio...kings/country/

Gah.

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They only have one team that qualifies each year so all points are based on their performance.

And a team that I would be fairly confident would beat most, if not all, the LOI teams at the mom (perhaps Dundalk would give them a game)

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Originally Posted by Louth4sam

They only have one team that qualifies each year so all points are based on their performance.

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Aye they do. The point being though, they are still ahead of us. Whatever technical reason exists for them being there they are still ahead of us. If they had a league they would also get CL places which they are not getting now and feasibly could be ahead of us as well in that scenario.

Do you think it is acceptable?

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

And a team that I would be fairly confident would beat most, if not all, the LOI teams at the mom (perhaps Dundalk would give them a game)

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And there you have it. How is that acceptable? Granted they play in the Swiss league, but I just think it is ghastly that this exists.

Longford couldn't beat them :(

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Do you think it is acceptable?

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Definitely not. They are getting the benefit of extra prize money, gate receipts etc from playing in the Swiss league. They should get their European spots from that league. The Welsh League was formed for the exact same reason. Their clubs used to qualify for Europe through the Welsh cup but play in England.

FFS lads, don't be worrying about a team from Liechtenstein and any fair/unfair advantage they have.

It's a disgrace.

I blame Delaney's salary.