David Meyler

Sunderland should be okay, if things are still going poorly in 2 months MON can revert to his preferred 10 men behind the ball tactics and play for a set piece goal. The fans got on his back for doing it at the start of the season despite it working last season.

Regarding Meyler, I haven't seen much of him thi season but a reliable Hull fan tells me he's been great. Different to their other centre mids, breaks up play and makes late runs into the box for them. He's also sang Brady's praises time and time again. Brady is our future.

3 wins in 7 during which time they've played Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs and the Manchester clubs isn't too bad. In fact, it's probably their best spell of the season. I just think if they're down there by March, they're not going to have much left in the tank to fight their way out.

I knew I should have added bar the last 3 of 4. They produced 3 good wins over the Christmas period but before that they were truly terrible.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Appeals to authority are weak, you know that. There is an observable pattern in the way O'Neill (sparingly) utilises his squads and the manner in which it contributes to his team's performance tailing off at the end of the season - it's empirically measurable, if somewhat subjective.

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That's just another MON myth, Charlie.
Aston Villa did alright (for a flogged dying horse) from April onwards in the last 6/7/8 matches of each of those seasons.
In the 4 seasons he was there, twice they finished stronger, once average and once weaker.

Do you have stats to back that up?

1.5million is a big fee for a player with so little game time at his age and 2 big knee injuries. Everton paid about the same for Gibson. Be interesting to see where the better value lies. Will meyler s passing ability be good enough for a top 6 club in time?

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2892/...e_name=PREDICT

Gibson cost 500k but at the moment is looking like a stop-start kind of a player as he has a recurring thigh problem. I presume this is related to the recurring groin injury that he had in the past and is probably part of why he was so cheap as well as the fact that his contract was nearly up. If Meyler stays fit then he will no doubt more than repay that fee to Hull, but it is somewhat of a risk for them.

is groin a scrotum hernia?

Gibson has been superb for Everto. Look at their results with and without him.

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Originally Posted by Irwin3

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2892/...e_name=PREDICT

Gibson cost 500k but at the moment is looking like a stop-start kind of a player as he has a recurring thigh problem. I presume this is related to the recurring groin injury that he had in the past and is probably part of why he was so cheap as well as the fact that his contract was nearly up. If Meyler stays fit then he will no doubt more than repay that fee to Hull, but it is somewhat of a risk for them.

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That is some value for everton considering how good he has been for them. Think he has been out with quad injuries. 2 cruciate tears with meniscal tears is a pretty nasty injury profile. greatest predictor of future knee injuries is unfortunately a history of previous knee injuries

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Do you have stats to back that up?

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You mean, do I have a link to where the stats are? How about Wikipedia? :)
It's not rocket science research.

Start with Villas' 2009/10 season on Wikipedia and work your way backwards

3 April 2010	Bolton	0–1	Aston Villa	Bolton	[show]

3315 April 2010	Aston Villa	2–2	Everton	Birmingham	[show]

3418 April 2010	Portsmouth	1–2	Aston Villa	Portsmouth	[show]

3521 April 2010	Hull	0–2	Aston Villa	Kingston-upon-Hull	[show]

3625 April 2010	Aston Villa	1–0	Birmingham	Birmingham	[show]

371 May 2010	Manchester City	3–1	Aston Villa	Manchester	[show]

389 May 2010	Aston Villa	0–1	Blackburn	Birmingham	[show]

No, I asking you to make your case. The results are a bit more mixed than I remember, but two of those seasons show disastrous finishes, and two are average enough, which for a side who were outspending those around them isn't much use. Sunderland aren't outspending anyone and the squad is threadbare enough as it is.

Meyler and Brady both missing for Hull today in the FA Cup, might not have permission to play them from their parent clubs

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

No, I asking you to make your case. The results are a bit more mixed than I remember, but two of those seasons show disastrous finishes, and two are average enough, which for a side who were outspending those around them isn't much use. Sunderland aren't outspending anyone and the squad is threadbare enough as it is.

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You asked me for links to support this statement I made
'Aston Villa did alright (for a flogged dying horse) from April onwards in the last 6/7/8 matches of each of those seasons.
In the 4 seasons he was there, twice they finished stronger, once average and once weaker.

I provided those links. You had earlier mentioned April as the fall off date, therefore I picked April onwards.
It's indisputable that Villa finished stronger in 2 out of the 4 seasons that MON was there. Those 2 finishes were better than Villas' average and in one of those seasons their position was already secure regardless, when they lost their last irrelevant match.
Their average finish in 2007/8 was not a disastrous finish, it was actually slightly better than average.
They averaged 1 83 points in each the last 6 games after April. Their season's average was 1.71

If you want to switch the goalposts, I'm not interested.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Meyler and Brady both missing for Hull today in the FA Cup, might not have permission to play them from their parent clubs

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Hull are now Meyler's parent club aren't they?

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Originally Posted by geysir

You asked me for links to support this statement I made
'Aston Villa did alright (for a flogged dying horse) from April onwards in the last 6/7/8 matches of each of those seasons.
In the 4 seasons he was there, twice they finished stronger, once average and once weaker.

I provided those links. You had earlier mentioned April as the fall off date, therefore I picked April onwards.
It's indisputable that Villa finished stronger in 2 out of the 4 seasons that MON was there. Those 2 finishes were better than Villas' average and in one of those seasons their position was already secure regardless, when they lost their last irrelevant match.
Their average finish in 2007/8 was not a disastrous finish, it was actually slightly better than average.
They averaged 1 83 points in each the last 6 games after April. Their season's average was 1.71

If you want to switch the goalposts, I'm not interested.

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I didn't say they collapsed in April, I said they burned out towards the end of the season. In two cases they did finish reasonably well, but in two others they collapsed completely in March, on both occasions failing to win a single match during that pivotal month. I'll give you it's not as clear cut as I said it was, but I still say it's a feature of his sides. He has his preferred line-up and he doesn't make enough use of his fringe players, which results in fatigue which is generally reflected in late-season results.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Meyler and Brady both missing for Hull today in the FA Cup, might not have permission to play them from their parent clubs

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I'd say achieving promotion is far more important than the cup for Hull, no point in risking Meyler and Brady there, keep em for the games
that matter.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I didn't say they collapsed in April, I said they burned out towards the end of the season. In two cases they did finish reasonably well, but in two others they collapsed completely in March, on both occasions failing to win a single match during that pivotal month. I'll give you it's not as clear cut as I said it was, but I still say it's a feature of his sides. He has his preferred line-up and he doesn't make enough use of his fringe players, which results in fatigue which is generally reflected in late-season results.

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I did not claim you said MON's team collapse in April, I said April was the date you picked for the fall-off to begin with Sunderland.
It's not as clear cut as you said for sure, as Aston Villa finished stronger in 3 seasons out of 4.
Your claimed 'empirical decline' of a MON team, as a feature of his teams, is a myth. It is not a feature, it happened on occasion, with Villa - 1 season in 4.

You two argue so passionately, I hesitate to think this but...there must be something more there. Something raw, forbidden.

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Originally Posted by geysir

I did not claim you said MON's team collapse in April, I said April was the date you picked for the fall-off to begin with Sunderland.
It's not as clear cut as you said for sure, as Aston Villa finished stronger in 3 seasons out of 4.
Your claimed 'empirical decline' of a MON team, as a feature of his teams, is a myth. It is not a feature, it happened on occasion, with Villa - 1 season in 4.

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I didn't rule out collapsing before April! My research shows they typically crash in March.

2006-07: Strong finish, undefeated in final 2 months
2007-08: Mediocre finish, 3 wins from final 12 games, 2 of them against already-relegated sides
2008-09: Horrific finish, 2 wins from final 16 games, including 8 losses. Getting Newcastle relegated a redeeming feature.
2009-10: Mediocre finish, 4 wins from final 14 games (2 against already-relegated sides) including 2 cup finals,

Needless to say those Villa squads were streets ahead of this Sunderland side.