OK Gavin, consider my amazement temporarily suspended ;)
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OK Gavin, consider my amazement temporarily suspended ;)
As Chair of the Membership Advisory Board I'm only too happy to help.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Surely you are not having a little hissy fit :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Take my polite suggestion in the spirit it was suggested, for the purposes of discussion.
The tedious bit for me is after trying to figure out who wrote what in your posts, is if I wanted to reply to your answer in normal board discussion format. Then it comes into one big indecipherible pile of text, I have to search and delete irrelevant stuff.
This is the system tried and tested here and most everybody follows it. You persisted in doing what suits you even after being asked.
This is the nonsensical bit I was referring to
I see now it refers to two quotes, one from I don't know where and the other was a reply to something you were asking, you wroteQuote:
I'm afraid you'll have to explain these gnomic asides to me...
"We are each, in our own way, unique"
"We are talking about it, not brushing it under the old carpet"
"Whats the Problem?"
I wrote "We are talking about it, not brushing it under the old carpet"
as in, there is no problem, we are discussing it.
Not at all. The irritability and childishness is coming largely from you. You sulk like a big baby when snide comments are thrown back at you.Either you are just out to wind up, in which case you can hardly complain when others do it. Or you are genuinely upset that we don't want to give up our team just so yours can ship less than five against Cyprus. If so, diddums. Call us back when there's a united Ireland, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Geysir
Poor you. But what's the problem, I've edited it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Geysir
See above. Sorry I didn't respond instantaneously, I didn't realise you had dictatorial rights on this siteQuote:
Originally Posted by Geysir
You should know where, since you wrote it in reply to me barely two hours ago. Since I wasn't brushing anything under the carpet, but merely saying that despite having lived in the RoI and Germany, I felt no national identity with either, your reply makes no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geysir
In 'The boys in green' (1997), Sean Ryan talked about an All-Ireland team being 'the dream of every genuine Irish football fan.' Maybe it is tragic that the split wasn't resolved when there was a real chance for reconciliation in the '50s. However, this particular utopia belongs with an older generation, hence Giles and O'Neill supporting it. Being born in 1984, I've only known Northern Ireland and their players as bitter and emotive rivals throughout several qualification campaigns - and distinctly separate from, and alien to the team I've supported and loved from a very young age. I can understand that NI's supporters would feel the same way about us.
Id agree with the Sean Ryan quote, but I would'nt agree its a utopia which belongs to an older generation. The dogs on the street know it would be better to have an all ireland team. Its called synergy (2+2=5)Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
I would also agree with your opinon of supporters of the NI football team, by reading some of the crap that their supporters post on here it is no wonder our crowd in the north would'nt touch them with a barge pole!!
very :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Obviously the problem existed before you edited it. Thank you. It was making everybody else out to be very bold indeed.
So it is a hissy fit.Quote:
See above. Sorry I didn't respond instantaneously, I didn't realise you had dictatorial rights on this site
If you have any genuine grievance about the tone of my replies please report them to the mod. But I'd assume their eyes are watching.
I can try and answer the earlier quote you asked about.Quote:
You should know where, since you wrote it in reply to me barely two hours ago. Since I wasn't brushing anything under the carpet, but merely saying that despite having lived in the RoI and Germany, I felt no national identity with either, your reply makes no sense.
Usually a person quotes the matter at hand in their first reply. Then it´s easy to see the context if any, easy to answer.
If you quote some line at random from an earlier post and mix it in with a quote from hours later and ask a question - what does it mean -, then it makes no sense.
The each one is unique was when I asked you to "quote" when replying
You would have one reply answering up to 4 different posters with no reference as to who wrote what. Therefore I wrote, each one of us is unique - use the quote function.
But then poor me, I don't have the time to keep backtracking through to find who wrote what :rolleyes:
ffs...will you just pm the lad all this. nobody else cares about what format he posts in. I doubt even you would care if he hadnt handed you your backside on a plate re the topic in hand.;)
Glad we cleared up the typeface issue, G. I've no "grievance" nor need to involve the mods- although, as others say above, it's likely they'll lock the thread. There's little room for compromise on this one, little new in the debate, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geysir
Did/ does he think NI fans are not genuinely fans nor Irish? As above, it's either a wind-up or deluded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
I'd agree it can change over time. For instance, in 1993, I was actually happy enough with the 1-1 draw at Windsor that allowed you to qualify, although I'd have been annoyed had you won the game. And now that you have effectively consolidated as a third-ranked team, we can genuinely consider you as a rival. That wasn't possible when we were struggling to fifth in 2004, 2002 and 1998 while you were challenging to qualify.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
The NI youth players declaring for RoI is likely to cause friction awhile, though I'm personally relaxed about it.
Woof. What does 2+5 equal? If I were you I'd concentrate on beating half of Cyprus and not needing a broken stopwatch to see off Syn marinergy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom Kerry
Er...the whole point of the thread is that you do want to touch us with a barge pole...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom Kerry
No, the whole point of this thread is that some of your former players like the idea of an all Ireland team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Aye, a feeling shared by many of the contributors to the thread- including the one I was replying to.
Indeed, but the point of the thread was to discuss comments made by Martin O'Neill regarding the prospect rather then a random suggestion from an ROI fan or fans as you imply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
By the way, did anyone see the piece on the reunion of the team on Monday Night Football last night on RTE. Some great footage of the match along with interviews with the Ireland players and the Brazil team (their 1970 team were over in England last week for some football fair and RTE sent a camera crew over). It's well worth looking up on RTE.ie if anyone missed it.
D9-69er: I don't think it matters whether some random poster raised the subject, or that a European cup winner did. The thread is about/ made up largely of people saying it would be a great idea, and the responses to that.
[Well, I'm glad I managed to get back to this thread before it was locked(!); in the meantime, I agree totally with Gather Round's earlier responses.]Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Of course, GR is correct to characterise the "debate" as he does - ie. essentially ROI fans saying it would be great etc., in response to the comments of two ex-players (who themselves can hardly be said to be representative of all former, or current, NI players, never mind the wider NI football family)
So why won't so many of those who would combine the two teams acknowledge that we think differently? Have we no right to object? To be a truly "united" team, it would take both parties to agree willingly and such agreement is simply nowhere on the horizon.
After all, it cannot be a "love match" when so many (90%+) of the NI fanbase are implacably opposed to the idea.
There is no possibility of an "arranged marriage" when at least one of the parents (IFA) has no interest.
It cannot ever be a "forced marriage", since the authorities (FIFA) would never accept that.
"So face up to it, darling. You're a lovely girl and many's another would be happy to have you, but it's just not working for us, is it? Why not just continue our separate ways before we start to hate each other? I'm sure you'll find someone else who'll make you happy. Oh and by the way, the record collection is mine, though you can keep Darron Gibson's Debut Album..." ;)
Is it the radio sports show on this listQuote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
Rte Shams V Brazil?
Who was doing the commentary of the game?
How many times does Hamilton say 'special'?
He said more or less that an all Ireland league would be a progressive step for football on the Island. That these days more good footballers are not going abroad and we should have the best League to develop them.
Nah, it's actually on the TV show from last night on the same link, about halfway through. Jimmy Magee did the piece which wasn't ideal but it was still pretty good. Just click on the media player link for MNS 7th April and the link to that segment should come up in a seperate window.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
True, but if an AIL should come about, how/why would that lead to a "United Ireland team" (the subject of this thread)?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Can't download the Interview, but is it possible that with fewer opportunities in England/Scotland for middle-ranking Irish players (both LOI and IL), due to the huge influx of players to those countries from all over the world, that earning a decent wage in a small pond at home is more attractive than going across the water and taking your chance in the (more competitive) big pond?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
That's it, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
Nice that Giles got paid that high respect, even 35 years later from the Brazilian.
EalingGreenI don't think the two are inextricably connected. The two federations can have their representative teams and the leading clubs can compete together in a competitive premier league. I'd presume that this would need to written in blood for IL fans.:DQuote:
True, but if an AIL should come about, how/why would that lead to a "United Ireland team" (the subject of this thread)?
There was thread discussing the issue in the LOI section, but I lost interest when it degenerated into pages disputing the city boundaries of Derry.
You just click on the link and it plays in your browserQuote:
Can't download the Interview
That's it, in a larger nutshell;)Quote:
but is it possible that with fewer opportunities in England/Scotland for middle-ranking Irish players (both LOI and IL), due to the huge influx of players to those countries from all over the world, that earning a decent wage in a small pond at home is more attractive than going across the water and taking your chance in the (more competitive) big pond?
This would be the only way the necessary majority of IL clubs would ever agree to an AIL.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Can you blame us if we were no longer prepared to rely on a "Gentlemens' Agreement" with the FAI? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
There's no sporting justification for an united Ireland team. Bar one or maybe two exceptions, the current NI squad of players would only marginally improve our squad.
Off the field, an united Ireland team would only serve to create "problems" (to put it mildly) and as such it's not something I would lend my support to.
Im sure if it were to happen Northern ireland would want and probably demand a certain quota of their players be in the squad(ala South Africa rugby). Now i know Northern Ireland are going through a purple patch for the opast 2-3 years but simply put their squad is very very poor. You could count on one hand the amount that should get in their squad, and only Evans would start. However i would like if we could bottle some of the attitude the northern Irish players have and give it to our fellas
NI 12-6-2-4-20
RoI 12-4-5-3-17
Can't argue with the league tables, can ye?
The whole idea is a fantasy, so why not indulge yourself that there'll be 22 RoI players in the notional squad?
PS Sanchez and Worthy may be a pair of surly fcukers, but they've persuaded enough of the players that international football's a step up. For Trap, we'll have to wait and see...
Fantasy is what has kept us going all these years.
An all-Island league I'd love to see but I'm happy with the Republic and Northern Ireland as seperate teams. regardless of which players would be selected I could only see their being problems.
More to do with the fact that you were being managed by reasonably competent individuals with previous managerial experience at a decent level compared to our village idiot and part time Walsall tea boy than to do with any comparision in the respective abilities of the players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Put it this way Sanchez bought the NI senior first team and Fulham have consequently become a dead cert for relegation. Keane bought the entire ROI B team and they are still 13 points better off.
Under Trap we'll be far more competitive than NI, of this I'm sure, even if (as I suspect) he turns out to be not quite the miracle worker that many are expecting.
If you ever get the chance, can you find out from him where I'm going wrong? Not "genuine"? Not "Irish"? Or simply not a "fan"? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
Really? Try telling that to the Germans, then. In the 17-odd years before West Germany (FRG) and East Germany (GDR) teams were reunited in 1991, West Germany's record was significantly better than the 17 years since.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
For instance, in the five World Cup Finals Tournaments from 1974, West Germany won it twice and were Runners-Up twice, finishing in 6th place in 1978. Whereas, in the four WC Finals since, the best they managed was Runner-Up once (2002), finishing 3rd (2006), 5th (1994) and 7th (1998).
The story is only marginally better for the European Championships. From 1972, they won it twice (1972 and 1980), finished Runner-up in 1976, reached the Semis in 1988 and failed to get out of their Group once (1984).
Whereas, since re-unification, although they were Runner-Up in 1992 and were Winners in 1996, they've failed to get out of their Group in the two Finals Tournaments since (2000 and 2004).
You might also care to look at the recent record of the constituent parts of the former Yugoslavia (Croatia, Serbia, Slovenia etc) and compare their relative successes with that of the unified Yugoslavia prior to the early 1990's. (And be careful little Montenegro don't bite you on the arse as well)
So do you want a "united" team, or not? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
You sure know how to sweet-talk us, don't you? Anyhow, you might want to study this:Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ra...llranking.html
P.S. You're not Eddie O'Sullivan in disguise, by any chance? ;)
Just about the worst idea I've seen yet on this whole thorny subject. If you were trying to find a way of pis sing off as many people as possible, I doubt if you could do better.Quote:
Originally Posted by carloz
Risible - but i won't rise to it...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by carloz
Ah, that old chestnut - "attitude". What would you say to those who disparaged Jack Charlton's players as being "poor", having to make up for their lack of quality with lashings of "attitude"? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by carloz
Has it never occurred to you that perhaps NI's players aren't quite so poor as some people allege, and some of the ROI players aren't so good as others claim?
In my experience, players don't become good players because they are confident; rather, they become confident because they are good. And so long as Worthington doesn't screw things up, we have a squad of (mostly) good young players who have the potential to get better.
A bad manager can screw up good players to make them look bad, but a good manager can't make bad players good - at least not over any consistent period.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
Sanchez bought precisely four NI players. He had more Americans in his squad of 26(?) ffs! And his record over the 17 League games he was given was better than that of Hodgson, who has had them for 16 League games and has only picked one NI player regularly.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
As for Keane, he had three times the net budget to spend over Sanchez, as well as a whole season more in charge. Granted, he's bought a lot of ROI players and some of them have done very well. But he has discarded a fair few, or isn't picking several more. Speaking of which, is Paul McShane injured? I only ask because I see some young lad called Evans is playing rather well for Sunderland at Centre Half...
You ought to be a good deal more competitive than NI, if for no other reason than that you have a rather bigger squad of decent players than us. But I don't see quite such a difference in quality between your First XI and ours.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
Oh shut up. Ye are useless. Think ye are great cause ye had a couple of lucky results last time. One or two of the NI team would make an All Ireland team at present. Still, those one or two could be the difference between everyone in Ireland getting the chance to go to the world cup or everyone staying at home.
I dont expect it to happen over night cause NI supporters are too politically motivated.
In the mean time, its important to get an AI league up and running and ensuring that our boys in the 6 counties who are good enough to play for us dont even consider playing with the wrong side.
Maybe we already have a United Ireland team!!
we were the ones lucky enough to get last minute goals against San Marino and Cyprus to prevent defeats by those twoQuote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
Or maybe they like having their own team ,Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
Anyone currently good enough or not good enough to play for us from the North can already choose to do so. If they want to play for the North then it's hardly the wrong side in their eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
This is what I find funny. They're politically motivated because they dont want an AI team but your not politically motivated in wanting one. As you said they wouldnt add much to our pool of players so what's the point if its not political?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
Our boys? What do you mean by that? Catholics? Republicans?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
Surely its for them to decide which is the 'wrong side'? Or do you think they shouldnt have a choice at all?
Thats a very political post for someone who's giving out about NI fans being politically motivated.
Atm anyone who wants to play for us can. So what exactly is the problem? Not happy with having the option of every player on the island?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
If only one set of fans want this merging, its never going to happen and rightly so. And thats before you worry about what UEFA and FIFA think.
Get off the moral highground will you ya plonkQuote:
Originally Posted by micls
Is Martin O'Neill or Jennings or George Best politically motivated for wanting an All Ireland team.
Our boys = this is an Ireland forum, there are many people from the north who support us and post on here
Ive always argued they should have the choice, not that I could understand it if they picked the sectarian team on the island.
It will never happen? Do you know this? Can you see the future? Will be interesting to see what happens in about 20 years when the majority of the population in the north are Ireland suppporters.
Moral highground? So my opinion is somehow being on a moral highground.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
Well done on resorting to insults too ;)
You'd have to ask them. I was referring to your postQuote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
But how are they 'our boys' if they choose to play for N.I. What makes them 'our boys' and how would someone be choosing the 'wrong side' as you said?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
Who's 'they' here? Anyone living on the island?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
We're back to the 'Lets insult the other teams fans' and call them sectarian. That doesnt stregthen your argument. The strides the NI fans have made to clean up their support is well documented and is to be respected. We have plenty of clowns in our own support
Now go read the post again.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
I said 'while only one set of fans want it' it wont happen. I didnt say never.
If the majority of the population in the North wanted an AI team in 20 then obviously it wouldnt be only one set of fans wanting it, and would be a different situation.
But even then, if 51% want to support/play for the Republic, nothing is stopping them from doing so. So why take the team from the other 49%(for example) if they still want it?
It doesnt make any sense to me tbh.
NI's start eleven against Georgia was as follows;Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Taylor, Baird, Hughes, Craigan, Evans, Gillespie, Johnson, Davis, Elliott, Healy, Lafferty.
Evans would start for us as we are in desperate need of a left full. Otherwise none of the players in that team are a clear improvement on what we already have to suggest that an united Ireland team would perform better on the world stage.
But please highlight where I'm wrong.
Climbing higher i see. Sorry if you think being called a plonk is an insult. Dont cry little girl;)Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
I see you can't actually address the points again.....Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
Kepp going on about that moral highground though
Nah, it's a lovely endearment....Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
I suppose I'm little enough....crying though? Do you understand what a forum discussion is?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
Look lad, either debate the points and back up your argument or don't. Tbh I'm not too bothered either way.
But Im only interested in discussing and debating opinions on here, not some tit for tat rubbish about moral highground and the like. So unless you want to disagree with the points I made Ill leave it there.
You honestly believe that. You honeslty believe there isnt much of a difference between you best 11Quote:
But I don't see quite such a difference in quality between your First XI and ours.
Taylor, Craigain, Hughes, McCauley, Evans, Gillespie, Clingan, Davis, Brunt, Healy and Feeney (give or take a couple)
is much the same in quality as
Given, Kelly, Dunne, O'Shea, Kilbane, McGeady, A. Reid, S.Reid, Hunt, Doyle and Keane
:confused::confused::confused:
Do me a bloody favour. Take off the tinted glasses. Yes you have been going through a good phase, but with the level of players of your disposal it will not last. Yes you are ahead of us for a number of months in the FIFA rankings....big whoop. We have been at our lowest level since the beginning of McCarthys days recently( and even they were arguably better). I you gave that list above of the Northern Irish XI and the Irish XI to anybody in Europe im fairly sure over 95% would agree on which one had the more 'quality' as you put it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
Your opinon is not you being on the moral highground. However when you are acting all high and mighty its a different story read your post again.Because I aspire to an All Ireland team I am politically motivated yeah? Then do you think that Best, Jennings, O'Neill are politically motivated too as well as about 80% (guess) of the entire population of Ireland?"Our boys" I explained what i meant by this in my last post. Read it slowly this timeYou asked me a question relating to the eligibility row. I answered it and refered to the people who have the choice as "they" who did you think i was reffering to. Maybe your very young or something, or just not the sharpest tool in the box.You might believe that all is rosy down winsor way, I dont. The Neil Lennon debacle was not too long ago.I think you'll find that demographics will determine that there will be a nationalist majority in around 20 years time. Im not talking about a poll or anything.What about Duff and Stepen IrelandQuote:
Originally Posted by carloz
Example?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
Not necessarily, but given your comments about 'our boys' the post was political.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
You're the one who claimed the NI fans were politically motivated becuase they didnt want one. I dont see the difference.
Why exactly do you want an AI team?
I cant comment on the 3 above but a lot of people I have spoken to in favour of an AI see it as a step towards a united Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
As many said above, they dont add an awful lot to our player pool, so what reason is there for wanting 2 football teams to come together?
I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
Again if your talking about people who support NI then they wouldnt eb people that are lining out for NI. So how exactly would anyone be picking the 'wrong side'
I said nothing about the eligibilty row. Im talking about 'them' having their own team. Why shouldn't they have their own team if thats what they want?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
Back to the insults. Well done. Lets try something- go one post simply answering the points without trying to insult me.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
I never said everything was rosy. But things werent rosy down in Turners cross for the u21 match against england either. As I said everyone has clowns.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
They are working hard to eradicate theirs. It is wrong imo to brand the entire support as sectarian given the work they are doing
Again I dont see how its relevant. Even if there is. Whats the problem with them supporting ROI if they want(or NI) and leaving the NI team for anyone who wants to play for/support them.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
I just dont see the point in trying to force NI supporters(theoretically) into having an AI team. As it stands anyone on the island can play/support who they want. Why change it to a system where some people would consider themselves to be losing their team.
As an example: If City and Cobh were talking about merging to make 1 team in Cork. I dont think many City fans would have a problem, as the bigger team they'd be mostly squad players and it would boost our attendances which would be good.
However I would imagine Cobh fans would be vehemently against it, for the same reasons real NI football fans are against an AI. They would be losing their team, their own identity and being practically 'swallowed up' by the bigger team.
Good rant, but calm down. We are quite clearly better than you, as measured by comparable 12-game leagues over two seasons. We have been improving for four years, since the EC 2004 lowpoint. You have been mediocre (by your own previously higher standards) for six. It's not impossible both trends might continue awhile yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carloz
Our basic problem is one of numbers. We have only 40% of the players available to you, less than 5% when you consider England and the other big boys. On the other hand, a group of talented individuals isn't enough in itself. We might expect your squad, who play regularly in the English Prem or Champs' League, to beat Cyprus or San Marino comfortably and the big boys occasionally. But the reality is that for many years now they haven't (can't?).
There may be many reasons for this- injuries to key players, complacency through lack of competition, a succession of negative or inexperienced coaches, unfair barracking of some players, whatever. But in six years, you haven't beaten anyone with realistic hope of qualifying.
You may be right in your straw poll of random European fans. But I suspect you overstate their interest in fringe Manchester United defenders, let alone guys at Wigan or Reading. The average armchair fan in Iceland or Istanbul is more likely to have seen Healy's love-in with Michel Platini ;)
I know that our fans (self included) often get too chippy about our rivalry with you. But the sad truth is that being better than the RoI means very little nowadays. It clearly doesn't guarantee qualification. I genuinely hope that changes soon...
Yawn. It's not about which team is better than the other, it's about whether joining forces would make an united Ireland team a "force" in world football. In my mind, the NI squad bar one or two exceptions does not offer a clear improvement on our current pick of players to suggest that joining forces would create a "super-side". Six of the team that started against Georgia played in the 4-1 defeat to Norway 4 years ago that coincided with NI's ranking as 124th best in the world. This highlights that FIFA rankings have nothing to do with the quality of players available to a team - it's reflective of how a group of players perform as a team. Yes NI have performed better than us as a team in recent years but this doesn't mean that NI has the better players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Thread boring you? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
It's about what people raise in the thread, surely? I was merely answering Carloz's points.
Of course broadly I agree with you- we are two clearly third-rate international teams and the enthusiasts for union are either deluding themselves, or more likely on a wind-up as I said.
I said we had the better team. In the short-term, since 2006, this is self-evident.