People have said the same about Doyle, O'Donovan etc.
Mooney, Quigley and Zayed are good enough to be considered.
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People have said the same about Doyle, O'Donovan etc.
Mooney, Quigley and Zayed are good enough to be considered.
Everyone's good enough to be considered. They're not good enough to make it. By a long shot.
If you were manager & we were playing Italy away and Robbie Keane went down injured, you looked to your bench & you had Zayed & Clinton sitting there ready to come on, who would you pick??Quote:
Originally Posted by half_full
I would go with Morrison as he is on a good run of form
Or because he's a better player
Sad fact is, Wangball is right. There are no LOI players up to International standard, (that is Premier League/Championship standard.) Sad fact no 2 is that if there were player up to that standard, then that's where they would be playing, not here. No point in kidding ourselves folks. That in no way invalidates the league for me though. Pats will always be my team, I couldn't really give a toss if they're better than QPR, Norwich, Chesterfield or whoever. The truth is that unless the league takes a massive leap forward good players here will always have/want to leave to progress to International standard. Kevin Doyle is the most recent outstanding example of this. Strangely though, I would be much more inclined to support an International team made up of home based players, even though I acknowledge it wouldn't be anywhere near the current Irish team.But then I'm just perverse like that:)
Oh, and BTW, to answer the original question, no way in hell will Trappatoni even consider watching players here, let alone picking them.
Well said TonyD. I agree with all the opinions and the sentiment expressed.Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
The most important thing for the eL right now is not some token international appearances, but a systematic effort to improve the league as a whole, so that, some day, far in the future, our best players will be able to stay in Ireland while playing for the national team.
Just so you all know Shaun Holmes is not available for selection as he has been snapped up by another International side (much higher in the rankings). However, Gethins is still available. I assume he declined to play for Staunton and that is why he was never included in the Ireland squads. Im sure Liam Brady will be keeping a close eye on Parkhouse also.
Why does British football have to be the litmus test? Is it so that if you're good enough to play in the British leagues that your good enough for international football?
League of Ireland football will never compete with British football - we simply don't have the resources to compete with a country that has 15 times our population. So why do we always benchmark our league against the British leagues?
Maybe it's time to open up our horizons and look at what the situation is with other countries similar in size to our own.
The good thing about Trapattoni is that he isn't coloured by the constant need to benchmark against the British game. His opinion of the league will be more subjective than that of an Irish or British coach who would of already formed their opinion of the league.
I personally don't think there is anyone playing in the league at the moment that's good enough for the international team. But I think there are a number of good talents in the league that potentially could do a job at international level. Indeed long-term success at international level is dependent on a strong domestic league. And for this reason alone the league should never be ignored.
Let me break it down for you, if I had a big pad of paper and some crayons it might be easier, but I'll use words instead. Hillsborough is roughly six times the size of Turners Cross, hence Wednesday have the capacity to get six times the crowd Cork can get, no matter what league they are playing. So it wouldn't matter if Cork were plumped into the Champions League group stage against Man Utd, Real Madrid and Ajax in revenue terms because Wednesday would still get a vastly superior attendence playing against Scunthorpe, QPR and Norwich, and so, by sheer economics, Cork wouldn't be able to afford to attract the players required to stay in the Championship, and so are not good enough to be considered a Championship team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flume
I really can't make it any easier than that. It's nice to see that once again it's the UCD and Limerick fans who actually have some bit of common sense in a thread, oh and I'll extend a welcome on behalf of the group to Wangball :)
Because we lose the majority of fans and good players to British teams, and we also lose a lot of respect in the barstoolers eyes by saying Cork and Drogs could easily be a Championship teamQuote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
A few years ago when Doyle (and Long) were at Cork City I'm sure you would have scoffed at the prospect of their being included as well, but since Doyler's leading the line for the mighty Reading he's irreplaceable.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangball
I can't see why people are so resistant to the idea of at least giving some of the LOI's better players a chance on the international stage. If they perform then it's good for Ireland and for the LOI, if not, then we promise to shut up about it (maybe) :D I just don't see why people still consider players like Alan Lee or Elliott, who are proven to be not up to scratch, as better options than Gamble or Zayed for example, who haven't even been given a chance.
Parkhouse for Ireland! As the great song I heard last season in Finn Park goes, "acceleration in moderation." Brilliant. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by finnpark
I think Linfield are premiership material:D
But when Doyle was in the EL, he stood out significantly ahead of the other strikers in the league and would have merited a call-up then (similar to Crowe when he was called up). There is no one at the moment who stands out like Doyle did, the fact that Zayed (a good striker in EL terms but far from head and shoulders above the rest) is being touted shows that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambaiste!
Leeds United have a higher average attendance than 8 Premiership clubs, that does not necessarily make Leeds Premiership standard. Countless Italian clubs have low attendances and manage to be successful in Europe, their also World Cup Champions:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
When Shelbourne narrowly lost out on a place in the Champions League Group Stages in 2004 (aganist Deportivo remember), Shels went on to face Lille in the Uefa Cup First Round. Shels were knocked out 4-2 on aggregate (no shame in that). Millwall on the other hand, a Championship side at the time were easily brushed aside by Ferencvárosi TC of Hungary. If you think that there is any comparrison between Ferencvarosi and Lille/Deportivo, then there you have a serious chip on your shoulder.
Exactly, couldn't agree more with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambaiste!
POTM:D:D:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Wangball
the comparison was more to do with quality of player currently at the club not facilities or Money. take it this way, If Matthews left Cork tomorrow for Sheff Wed and decided to release the enitire squad and sign the entire Cork squad, Wed would have a good chance of staying in the ChampionshipQuote:
Originally Posted by jebus
No we wouldn't is all I can sayQuote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
No they wouldn't. Paying out the remainder of the current Wednesday player's contracts would put them in severe financial difficulty, which would probably lead to administration and a 10 point deduction. So there :)Quote:
the comparison was more to do with quality of player currently at the club not facilities or Money. take it this way, If Matthews left Cork tomorrow for Sheff Wed and decided to release the enitire squad and sign the entire Cork squad, Wed would have a good chance of staying in the Championship
If Drogheda, Cork, St Pats, Derry City etc etc where so great, all the players would be signed by teams in England, who have more prestigue, more support, more money, better facilities, more exposure, better training methods and better presentation.
To use Shelbourne as a comparison to Millwall is silly. In that same season Linfield stuffed Shelbourne 2nil at Tolka. Does that mean we are even better again? We then beat them again the following year in the group stages at Windsor and then we had a very good draw at Tolka when being down to 10 men via a refereeing disgrace.
Since then their hasn’t been a team as good as that Shelbourne side, so the standard at the very top end has dropped.(I think the bottom and middle has improved though, making the league a lot more competitive.)
The top 4 teams in the LOI and Linfield belong to the same bracket of footballing standard. This isn’t a comparison of opinion, this is a comparison of direct head to head results in a competitive competition. Linfield are not bettered by any club head to head in 90 mins. Only Drogheda have a better record and it took penalties for them to have that better head to head record.
But I do not think for 1 second that Linfield could compete at Championship standard. I do not think we would be pushing promotion in League 1 either. Linfield and every other top club on this island at very best are as good as a lower-mid table League 1 side. But IMO the very best clubs would compete better in league 2 around the mid table/play-off/promotion areas.
Championship standard is a far superior standard that much I do know.
I seem to recall us being on the same side in this debate with the eL circus in quite a few threads now, never gets old does it :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruce
But the point is that Doyle didn't get called up until he moved to Reading, seemingly making him a top-class striker overnight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Schumi
Personally, I don't think Zayed is in the same class as Doyle, and I think it's unlikely that he would do the trick up front for Ireland, but to dismiss him out of hand just because he plays for Drogheda, while persisting with the call-up of proven failures such as Elliott, Lee and various other nearly men from the lower English leagues makes no sense to me.
doubt it....what about Colin Hawkins? forget about him...I don't blame you..He's only played 13 times since joining from Shels in 2006.Quote:
Originally Posted by half_full
Elliot is not a proven failure. He has been unlucky with injuries. Most times he's played for Ireland he's played quite well. He'll probably never get to the level that he could have attained, but it's not due to his ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambaiste!
Regardless of whether Drogheda etc. would be comfortable in the English second division, there are LoI players worthy of a call up.
Hopefully Trappatoni will be unlike almost every other Irish manager and give this league respect.
Fair enough, but the fact remains that he, and others mentioned are probably never going to cut it. They've had their chance, why not give someone else a fair crack of the whip? I genuinely can't see the harm.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmurphyc
Zayed had his chance too - Crewe rejected him. So he's a failure too. He's had a fair crack of the whip, to use your phrase.
Also, when Doyle left, he had something like 10 goals in 14 games. O'Donovan had 20 goals in 20 games. Don't have Zayed's stats offhand, but if he got 10 goals in a season, I'd be surprised. There's no comparison, even between those two.
Right, Zayed was mentioned on the off hand, but the thread is relvolving around him. For instance IF Jason Byrne/Mooney etc. hits 20 plus this season, then he SHOULD be given a call up to a meaningful match.
Why should Crewe be the judge of a player?
Byrne did hit 20 goals a season, for four seasons. He went to cardiff and failed. Mooney went on trial with Crystal Palace and failed. Sorts your whine about only using Crewe as an example.
Spotting a trend yet?
:confused: Mooney was offered an 18 month contractQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
No, no he didnt. He didnt stand out all that much even at City. He had a good run of form, and was swept off to reading. Denis Behan had a similar run of form and hasnt been signed, because the transfer window was closed at the time of his scoring run. Doyler was initialled called up because of the club he was at and would not have been considered if he had stayed put, the same as Behan has not been called up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Schumi
Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Try reading my posts. AND it's only a day old.:eek::rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
Mooney didn't fail as pointed out already.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
RE: Jason Byrne, two words: Fowler and Hasslebank. Also Byrne only got 10 games, and AFAIK Cardiff have no proper reserve side, which would have dented his chances at getting back to the first team.
Fowler and Hasslebank are both well well past their prime and are not the best in the divisionQuote:
Originally Posted by half_full
Fowler and Hasslebank is the standard of player you need to be to play in the Championship. I'm afraid not too many players on this island are up to that standard. Let alone full football teams.
Fully aware they are past their best, still are far from poor players, and possibly good enough as Premiership squad players?
So Doyle, Long, Murphy, O'Donovan, and possibly Mooney would all be of Championship standard then?
OK so. Carsley out, Gamble in.Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
It works with any combination. Doesn't make your comments any less ridiculous.
He hates being caught!! ;) :DQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
it should take an exceptional player to make an international squad, at the moment i dont think there are any LOI players that can make that grade, the championship argument is a different one, IMO there are a host of payers who would hold their own in that league (but not at the top few clubs which is where any internationals might come from)
Stu your brand of pesamism (as opposed to realism) is wholy depressing,
No-one yet has managed to show why I'm not being realistic.
Simply saying it don't mak it true...
Why is the idea of replacing an average workhorse with a potentially great player ridiculous? Worst case scenario, Gamble runs about a lot, wins a few tackles and always passes the ball backwards. We'd just about break even there I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu