Minutes silence tonight

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Originally Posted by Ireland4ever

As ive said already what you should care about is one of our own dying while returning from a football match. Your opinions on the rest of the babes i am indifferent to. Just cant understand why a minutes silence for Liam 'Billy' Whelan would upset you.

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It doesn't upset me, I know it's a foreign concept around here but could you go back and actually read through all of my posts to see how my part in this thread has advanced? Also could you point me to the place where I said it does upset me? I said I don't care about 'one of my own' dying 50 years ago with the Busby Babes in response to someone saying people would wreck the minute's silence because of Whelan's Man Utd connection, whereas I maintained that the worst you'll get is people like me who just don't care, but would obviously respect the silence, much like I don't care about the Irishman who died in a car accident in Donegal in 1972, much like I don't care about the Irish woman who drowned in a boating accident in 1984, and any of you who aren't related to the Whelan family, or who never met the man who say that Liam Whelan's death 50 years ago affects you are liars to be honest, and worse than that some of you are trying to tag on some fake emotion of your own to make yourself seem more Irish at the expense of that man's memory

Nationality is not relevant to this tragedy.

There should be no issue with a minutes silence out of common humanity.

Nationality is always relevant, whether we want it to be or not. Whenever there's a disaster one of the first things you hear on the news is "X Irish people died".

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

Pretty certain there was a minutes silence at Lansdowne before the Denmark game later that month, correct me if I'm wrong.

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You are right, that game was played about 3 weeks after the air crash and there was indeed a minute's silence before that game and before several games there have been a minute silence for some recent tragic event or for someone prominent connected with football who recently passed away.

I was referring more to the likes of 5th, 10th, 15th, 25th, 40th, 50th anniversary of such events which we seem to have had for the Munich air crash. For example, I seem to remember 1st, 5th, 10th and 15th anniversaries for Hillsborough and no doubt there will 20th anniversary events in April 2009. I may be wrong but I don't ever remember say a 10th anniversary of the Zambian disaster and we played in Dublin in April 2003.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Nationality is not relevant to this tragedy.

There should be no issue with a minutes silence out of common humanity.

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fair enough but the Tragedy was a half a century ago!!!

I honestly think the whole minute silence thing has lost resonance as more often than not when you go to a game nowadays there is a minutes silence for something or other.

Yes it was a tragedy (at the time) but that was a couple of generations ago. Perhaps the anniversary should have been marked by a short film or something but a minutes silence is to reflect and perhaps think of the grieving families, very few, if any, of the people in the ground would have felt enough of either to merit a minutes silence imo (I'm obviously excluding the clearly grief stricken man in his 20s or early 30s with MUFC scarf and head bowed in a clear state of remorse for the victims, survivors and families associated with his club).

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Originally Posted by reder

Dont think it will be at Wembley due to that fact that the ground will be full of southerners (Chelsea/Millwall/West Ham spring to mind) and I am worried that the anti-PL bridage here could do the same.

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Only booing that I heard was from the PL brigade when Anderson came on....which reminds me of time the time an Irish voice behind me urged Cristiano Ronaldo to break an Irish players leg in the friendly against Portugal.

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Originally Posted by Ireland4ever

I pointed out that the FAI decided to remember one of our players who was cut down in a tradgic circumstance - while on footballing duty.

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cut down while on footballing duty :D you'd swear he was storming the beaches of Normandy. Yeah footballers are such brave, selfless folk.

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Originally Posted by jmurphyc

Nationality is always relevant, whether we want it to be or not. Whenever there's a disaster one of the first things you hear on the news is "X Irish people died".

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I take you point jmurphy - but to take it to its logical conclusion, are you suggesting our compassion / interest in relation to Munich is inversely proportional to how many of their own Nationality died?

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Originally Posted by Ireland4ever

At what point did i describe it as the single biggest tragedy? I pointed out that the FAI decided to remember one of our players who was cut down in a tradgic circumstance - while on footballing duty. To suggest i said otherwise is ridiculous

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Maybe you should look at what you're quoting. I was quoting Bellavistaman who said it was probably the biggest footballing tragedies.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

I take you point jmurphy - but to take it to its logical conclusion, are you suggesting our compassion / interest in relation to Munich is inversely proportional to how many of their own Nationality died?

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Aside from the media talking about the number of Irish deaths I think that when most people hear about a tragic event they think it's sad for a few seconds/minutes and then go back to what they were doing until it is mentioned in the media again but otherwise never really think about it ever again. Perhaps that's just my cynical view but that's how I would think the majority of people - when they're honest with themselves - feel.

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Originally Posted by jebus

It doesn't upset me, I know it's a foreign concept around here but could you go back and actually read through all of my posts to see how my part in this thread has advanced? Also could you point me to the place where I said it does upset me? I said I don't care about 'one of my own' dying 50 years ago with the Busby Babes in response to someone saying people would wreck the minute's silence because of Whelan's Man Utd connection, whereas I maintained that the worst you'll get is people like me who just don't care, but would obviously respect the silence, much like I don't care about the Irishman who died in a car accident in Donegal in 1972, much like I don't care about the Irish woman who drowned in a boating accident in 1984, and any of you who aren't related to the Whelan family, or who never met the man who say that Liam Whelan's death 50 years ago affects you are liars to be honest, and worse than that some of you are trying to tag on some fake emotion of your own to make yourself seem more Irish at the expense of that man's memory

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I sympathise with you there. My own concern over Whelan was how good Ireland would have been with him in later years. Anything else would be faux tears.

My dad always talked about Munich -as stated he worked in Manchester when it happened - and in particular Whelan although he didn't know too much about him. He told me for years that he was going to leave football that summer to become a priest, something that was indeed reported at the time but was effectively baseless.

But what about other Irish players taken before their time like Austin Hayes. Not quite as good but still tragic, dying of cancer at 28. Are we to have a commemoration for him every ten years? And yes we do have minutes silences for tragedies...that is it one minute and they are never mentioned again. The reason this was done was that so many of the FAI are secret Premiership barstoolers, and of course there's our own prime minister. As pointed out the club were hardly good to the survivors who had their careers ended, and the fact that they are sticking their sponsor on a memorial, shows the crassness of the whole event.

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Originally Posted by lopez

The reason this was done was that so many of the FAI are secret Premiership barstoolers, and of course there's our own prime minister.

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Nail. Head. On.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Maybe you should look at what you're quoting. I was quoting Bellavistaman who said it was probably the biggest footballing tragedies.

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If you were bothered to look back you'll find out it was in fact you that quoted me and then commented on me saying it being the biggest tragedies, get your facts straight.

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Originally Posted by lopez

I sympathise with you there. My own concern over Whelan was how good Ireland would have been with him in later years. Anything else would be faux tears.

My dad always talked about Munich -as stated he worked in Manchester when it happened - and in particular Whelan although he didn't know too much about him. He told me for years that he was going to leave football that summer to become a priest, something that was indeed reported at the time but was effectively baseless.

But what about other Irish players taken before their time like Austin Hayes. Not quite as good but still tragic, dying of cancer at 28. Are we to have a commemoration for him every ten years? And yes we do have minutes silences for tragedies...that is it one minute and they are never mentioned again. The reason this was done was that so many of the FAI are secret Premiership barstoolers, and of course there's our own prime minister. As pointed out the club were hardly good to the survivors who had their careers ended, and the fact that they are sticking their sponsor on a memorial, shows the crassness of the whole event.

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Prime minister, since when did we have one of these?

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Originally Posted by Ireland4ever

Prime minister, since when did we have one of these?

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A prime minister is the most senior minister of cabinet in the executive branch of government in a parliamentary system. Yes, we have one, whatever we chose to call the post.

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Originally Posted by Ireland4ever

If you were bothered to look back you'll find out it was in fact you that quoted me and then commented on me saying it being the biggest tragedies, get your facts straight.

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I really don't want to get into a game of tit-for-tat, but I didn't refer to you at all, as I said already I was taking issue with Bellavistaman's take on the tragedy. So cop on and move on. :mad:

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Originally Posted by John83

A prime minister is the most senior minister of cabinet in the executive branch of government in a parliamentary system. Yes, we have one, whatever we chose to call the post.

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Wikipedia called, they said they want there quote back! :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister

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Originally Posted by Ireland4ever

Wikipedia called, they said they want there quote back! :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister

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Yes, I wanted to confirm my understanding of the term and was too lazy to put it in my own words. You, on the other hand, were wrong. To keep you happy, I'll reference my next quote. How about this one?

"

• There refers to a specific location or introduces a clause or sentence

My blue car is over there.There is no faster car than that one.

• Their is a possessive pronoun, meaning "belonging to them"

Their car broke down, so they had to call a technician." [1]

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...r_they.27re.3F

No worries Ireland4ever, I'll translate this for you.

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Originally Posted by John83

Yes, I wanted to confirm my understanding of the term and was too lazy to put it in my own words.

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Yes it's quoted from Wikipedia.

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Originally Posted by John83

You, on the other hand, were wrong.

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But he still thinks he is a smart boy.

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Originally Posted by John83

To keep you happy, I'll reference my next quote. How about this one?

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Just to be a pedant and put you in your place he'll demonstrate how smart he is.

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Originally Posted by John83

"

• There refers to a specific location or introduces a clause or sentence

My blue car is over there.There is no faster car than that one.

• Their is a possessive pronoun, meaning "belonging to them"

Their car broke down, so they had to call a technician." [1]

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...r_they.27re.3F

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That another wikipedia quote. Obviously the boy can't think for himself.

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Originally Posted by Ireland4ever

Prime minister, since when did we have one of these?

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LOL:D. Just makes me laugh how many Irish people's grasp of their OWN language stretches no further than words like 'Taoiseach', 'Garda' and 'Eire', the sort of words that are used in other languages.

http://www.laopiniondemalaga.es/secc...entas-Estepona

http://innisfree1916.wordpress.com/2...ern-en-apuros/

Here's one that isn't used so much in Spanish newspapers covering Irish affairs: Amadam. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by lopez

Here's one that isn't used so much in Spanish newspapers covering Irish affairs: Amadam. :rolleyes:

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Probably because the word is Amadán :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Superhoops

For example, I seem to remember 1st, 5th, 10th and 15th anniversaries for Hillsborough and no doubt there will 20th anniversary events in April 2009. I may be wrong but I don't ever remember say a 10th anniversary of the Zambian disaster and we played in Dublin in April 2003.

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Huge difference there though. For one, Liverpool FC hold their own private memorial service on the Kop with the families every year on April 15th. The only thing they ask is that the club does not play on that day or that a fixture does not clash with the service. Unlike Utd, they do not make a big song and dance about it and request the whole Premier League and the FA to join in. You do not hear about this service in the media, or see it plastered all over the papers. Nor do Liverpool make a big deal out of it on a significant anniversary date. Liverpool FC and the Hillsborough Justice group are also heavily and directly connected and the clubs interest is genuine. Do Manchester Utd have an annual memorial service with the Munich families? I seriously doubt it. I can't recall any minutes silence for hillsborough at Ireland games or any other international games for that matter. The Munich thing is just United being United - milking it for all it's worth

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Probably because the word is Amadán :rolleyes:

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Wow! A lesson in the title of the Irish prime minister one minute and a spelling lesson the next. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Huge difference there though. For one, Liverpool FC hold their own private memorial service on the Kop with the families every year on April 15th. The only thing they ask is that the club does not play on that day or that a fixture does not clash with the service. Unlike Utd, they do not make a big song and dance about it and request the whole Premier League and the FA to join in. You do not hear about this service in the media, or see it plastered all over the papers. Nor do Liverpool make a big deal out of it on a significant anniversary date. Liverpool FC and the Hillsborough Justice group are also heavily and directly connected and the clubs interest is genuine. Do Manchester Utd have an annual memorial service with the Munich families? I seriously doubt it. I can't recall any minutes silence for hillsborough at Ireland games or any other international games for that matter. The Munich thing is just United being United - milking it for all it's worth

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You just gotta love how people are using Utds tributes on this 50 year anniversary to have a go at the club and here even as a form of one upmanship for their clubs:D

Look, it was a significant moment in English football history. It's not Utd's fault everyone seems to want in. They certainly didn't 'request the whole premier league and FA to join in'?

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Originally Posted by Armando

Look, it was a significant moment in English football history. It's not Utd's fault everyone seems to want in. They certainly didn't 'request the whole premier league and FA to join in'?

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But why do they allow AIG - their sponsor - to have a place on the commemoration poster? I personally find that disgraceful. Surely they could have asked AIG to have their name left off just once.

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Originally Posted by lopez

Wow! A lesson in the title of the Irish prime minister one minute and a spelling lesson the next. :rolleyes:

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I just found it ironic that in a post where you complained about the lack of knowledge of the Irish language, you then went on to misspell a word in Irish.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

........I can't recall any minutes silence for hillsborough at Ireland games or any other international games for that matter.....

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I remember Ireland playing at home against Spain in a WCQ about 10 days after Hillsborough with Staunton, Whelan and Houghton in the team and am certain there was a minute's silence before that game.

I think you will find England played at Wembley the same day and that Scotland and Wales also played at home and at all those games there was a minute's silence.

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Originally Posted by Superhoops

I remember Ireland playing at home against Spain in a WCQ about 10 days after Hillsborough with Staunton, Whelan and Houghton in the team and am certain there was a minute's silence before that game.

I think you will find England played at Wembley the same day and that Scotland and Wales also played at home and at all those games there was a minute's silence.

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I think you'll find having a minutes silence at the time the event actually happened is pretty normal. Thats not what I was talking about though, I don't recall any 'anniversary' minutes silence for same....

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

I just found it ironic that in a post where you complained about the lack of knowledge of the Irish language, you then went on to misspell a word in Irish.

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Evven morre irronic thaat thhe worrd wass thhe Irrish forr idiott. I don't claim to speak Irish fluently, probably because the vast majority of Irish people I've met don't speak it as a first language, or if they do they don't speak it around me. Take this forum for instance. How many threads on here are written wholly in Irish? Perhaps if Irish was spoken anywhere near the level of Dutch - which also has a native speaking population almost universally fluent in English - then I would have to learn it - I went to school in England and my father who was the pure stuff and born in the place, could speak even less of the lingo than I can, which is very little indeed.

Bearing this in mind, I don't need any w*nker(s) talking magallaigh (I probably spelt that wrong, and it probably needs an 'h' between the 'm' and 'a', but if it forces you to post any more inane posts, then I hope I did) about the English translation of teeshock (don't think I spelt that right either) when speaking English, although I think the relationship of Bertie and Mary is more akin to the Chancellor and President of Germany.

What is even more ironic is that Ireland has a population that mostly speaks English, and when there are efforts to promote the langugage, like in school, there seems to be little opposition from recently arrived foreigners but natives from big cities worried about their kids grades. It is also no surprise that this population even follows English football clubs, and stick their faces into a hanky carrying a cut onion to show their 'grief' about an English club having a plane crash back in the days when this plane crash was more like a car crash. I often wonder: Why did we leave the United Kingdon?

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Originally Posted by lopez

Evven morre irronic thaat thhe worrd wass thhe Irrish forr idiott. I don't claim to speak Irish fluently, probably because the vast majority of Irish people I've met don't speak it as a first language, or if they do they don't speak it around me. Take this forum for instance. How many threads on here are written wholly in Irish? Perhaps if Irish was spoken anywhere near the level of Dutch - which also has a native speaking population almost universally fluent in English - then I would have to learn it - I went to school in England and my father who was the pure stuff and born in the place, could speak even less of the lingo than I can, which is very little indeed.

Bearing this in mind, I don't need any w*nker(s) talking magallaigh (I probably spelt that wrong, and it probably needs an 'h' between the 'm' and 'a', but if it forces you to post any more inane posts, then I hope I did) about the English translation of teeshock (don't think I spelt that right either) when speaking English, although I think the relationship of Bertie and Mary is more akin to the Chancellor and President of Germany.

What is even more ironic is that Ireland has a population that mostly speaks English, and when there are efforts to promote the langugage, like in school, there seems to be little opposition from recently arrived foreigners but natives from big cities worried about their kids grades. It is also no surprise that this population even follows English football clubs, and stick their faces into a hanky carrying a cut onion to show their 'grief' about an English club having a plane crash back in the days when this plane crash was more like a car crash. I often wonder: Why did we leave the United Kingdon?

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It must be great to be perfect.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Nationality is not relevant to this tragedy.

There should be no issue with a minutes silence out of common humanity.

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If that rule was to be followed football matches would be shorter than the commemorative silences before them. I've no problem with minutes silences in general especially if they are directly related to the event in question, ie Player/officail dies and a minute silence is observed at the next match. But commemorating someone who died 50 years ago with a minute silence is a bit redundant IMO. also if it had been Juventus or Real Madrid who'd crashed in 1958 with Billy Whelan on board would the FAI have commemorated it in this way? I doubt it. The FAI seem to have an obsession with copying the Premiership, as someone said before "It's Diana all over again"