Chicken or egg?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Student
Didn't notice that myself. I have however followed Jackmans career through Connaught, Clontarf and now Leinster he can't throw for toffee.
Printable View
Chicken or egg?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Student
Didn't notice that myself. I have however followed Jackmans career through Connaught, Clontarf and now Leinster he can't throw for toffee.
Whichever comes as a result of the French staying on the ground to defend against a maul forming.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Jackman's throwing isn't great but it's also not as bad as is being made out. We lost one lineout as a result of a bad throw to Heaslip and (I think) 3 more where the throw was OK but the timing was bad between the thrower and jumper, allowing the French to jump in front and rob the throw.
...or realising they have less chance of picking it off as the throw is better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Student
FWIW our mauls actually improved towards the end of the game (thus again highlighting the futility of defending lineouts on the ground).
It's a long time since I took part in a lineout but I'm absolutely certain that six men on the ground are better placed to defend a maul than 2 men in the air and 4 men lifting them. At the end of the game Ireland was within 8 and then 5 points of France and the French decided to defend their line rather than trying to steal Irish possession. It's a different calculation of risks for different parts of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
I'm not saying this to defend Jackman's throwing but to point out that the situation is more complicated than a simple post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Its fairly well known that there is no way to legally defend a properly constituted maul in the current game and thats why the new IRB rules being applied in the Super 14s allow collapsing the maul.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Student
The only way to stop a maul is by not letting in form, which in a lineout situation involves either getting a man on the deck or tackling the jumper immediately as he lands and before the required numbers are bound in so that a maul is formed.
You can still do this and contest the lineout.
Another one of O'Donovan's wonderful world cup ideas....
I don't agree with everything you have to say about a maul but I'll agree that it's possible to stop one being formed with jumpers in the air but you're much more likely to be successful doing this without anyone jumping since you will have more players available to do it. The French were, correctly, playing a risk minimisation strategy at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
That's getting a little away from the topic we were discussing though. We can debate why the French didn't challenge the Irish lineout near the end of the game but the fact that they didn't is, in my mind, more important that the two Irish substitutions that happened around the same time.
None of that should be interpreted to mean that I think Jackman is a good thrower, rather that I don't think that he was the sole cause of our difficulties earlier in the game.
There was all kinds of flapping going on in the lineouts before he made the throws which we lost. It's the pack leader's call where to throw the ball. After those he went back to O'Callaghan which we won easily. Bad decision making and not Jackman's fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Student
Throwing to the front is not really a viable long-term solution if you want to secure good attacking ball. Front ball narrows the angle of attack by allowing the defending side to cramp you in on the blind side which makes getting the ball to the backs much more difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Neither is cutting the line short a particularly attractive option either as it allows the remaining forwards to pack the defensive line.
Why would we want to give the ball to our backs late on on Saturday? We murdered the French up front, and their main lineout threat was Bonnaire, who was jumping at the tail. If we secured our ball at the front and mauled we would have got more penalties, possibly 2 tries and caused the French more headaches.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
I take on board your points and agree with them when the throw-in is in midfield because you need more options there, but 5 metres out, against a pack that we're destroying...please !!:eek:
Are there any tickets going for the Scotland game this coming weekend?
Tommy Bowe to start, replaces Murphy.
http://www.rugby.ie/news/story/?jp=mheysnojsngb&d=new
Should be a comfortable win for us this weekend.... (if we avoid giving away penalties in kickable positions)
Good move bringing Bowe in. Bad move getting rid of Murphy. I kow he was pretty poor against the French (as he always seems to be!) but he seems to be playing for Ireland with the axe constantly hovering over him. i.e play badly in one game and you're out. Whereas Dempsey seems to be guaranteed his place no matter what.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Now i have nothing against Dempsey but surely its time to give the jersey to Murphy (or even Kearney/Fitzgerald!) and say to him "right you've got x number of games to prove yourself for us" instead of the "play well or you're out" attitude that O'Sullivan seems to have with Murphy.
At last Eddie realises the importance of form and brings in Ireland's best back this season (admittedly not a huge group of contenders for that honour) as well as rewarding Mick O'Driscoll for some fine form.
Re Murphy, he does seems to be the one that Eddie picks on (I think he's had more than enough chances over the years and lets us down more often than not) but it would be harsh on Dempsey to get rid of him for Murphy, as at least he can defend solidly. Personally I'd look to the future and play Fitzgerald at 15 and inject some pace into the line.
Last chance Saloon for Jackman, with Flannery hopefully coming back for the Wales game. Despite what people have posted earlier, Jackman WAS responsible for 3 out of 5 lineout losses against France by underthrowing the ball (courtesy of analysis by Franno in the Turbine).
Dempsey without fail is a solid 7 out of 10 every game for Ireland man. Murphy is too unreliable and is prone to errors and missing tackles. I'd go for the steady option every time at 15.
So can we finally put an end to Geordan Murphy's international?
No - Dempsey is struggling with a hip injury! He has more lives than a cat!
Just been told that Dempsey won't make it and Geordan Murphy is in at full-back. Should be confirmed later.
Surely last chance saloon for him now?
Surely he can't be dropped after that performance? Wouldn't be surprised though.Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
Bowe and O'Gara had excellent games I thought. BOD was quiet again apart from his pass for the second try.
Jackman had a poor throwing game again but Best didn't do too great either when he came on. I'd still prefer Jackman ahead of Best because of his play in the loose. Hopefully Flannery will be fit for the Wales game though.
Good to see O'Connell back, should see his start against Wales hopefully.
England win in Paris- things are after getting very interesting. We'll probably miss out by points difference as usual though.
Question: why do Irish players when they are standing on the edge of a ruck put one hand in the air? I watched the Wales/Italy and France/England games and none of their players do it. :confused:
Don't know if this is right, but I was told (by a rugby head) that it is to attract the referee to the fact that they are not coming in from the side. BTW, England players were at it last night, mainly when the French were within 10 yards of the line.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Its part of the defensive system. I think its to mark where exactly the ball is, so the defensive line can arrange either side of that person. The person with their hand up is known as the "policeman" and is supposed to stop someone making a quick break straight through the back of the ruck.
exactly, though i think theyre called the "pillar" & "post" position. They stand on each side of the ruck. And the hand in the air is to let team mates know that pillar and post are covered.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
fair play to geordan , he pulled it out of the bag, he should be give an extended run in the team now, ireland to beat wales
Yeah happy to see him do well, he definitely added some dynamism to the back line and deserves his place for the next game. Wouldn't be so confident of such an easy time against the Welsh though. If we start like we did against the Scots then we could be in for a rough time. Whereas the Scots were completely toothless in the backline, the Welsh will be very very dangerous.
Should be a cracking game for the neutrals though...
anyone wonder was that comment from EOS, done as motivation?!
For Wales I'd bring in Best and O'Connell and seriously consider Horgan in place of Bowe. Bowe didn't do anything wrong but Horgan has more pace.
Murphy has to stay and I just hope he can string two good performances together, something that I don't think he's ever done for Ireland.
Don't know where you're getting that from. Bowe is easily faster than Horgan, and while he hasn't got the strength Horgan has, he certainly isn't slower than him. Horgans major contribution to games over the past couple of seasons has been to field high cross field kicks from ROG, but I'd certainly leave Bowe there ahead of him because he's an out and out finisher.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
A fit Flannery has to start also. Neither Best or Jackman have proven themselves having been given several chances, and Flannerys accuracy at the lineout, coupled with his abrasiveness around the pitch will be badly needed against Wales.
Regarding Murphy....Don't be surprised to see Dempsey included ahead of him against Wales. One swallow doesn't make a summer, and O'Sullivan likes consistency and is quite loyal to those who provide it. Although from hat I hear Dermpseys injury is going to keep him out of the Wales game too, so then it becomes a no-brainer.
Flannery and O'Connell for Jackman and O'Driscoll will be the only changes I think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Ogba
never said it would be easy , but i fully expect us to win , the team has finally got the influx of new blood that it needed and the XV is not set in stone.
Gatlands return.. loved him as manager.. but i hope he has a mare in two weeks..
On that point I heard Keith Wood say it takes time for a hooker to gel with the lineout, that patience was needed even for the best hookers in the game to get it right at the lineout.Quote:
Originally Posted by joeSoap
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMilla
Ditto, he was responsible for introducing the Stringer/O'Gara axis into the Irish setup and I think he wasn't really given enough credit for putting us on the right track.
Saying that, I 'd love if we gave the Welsh a good spanking, they can be an awful arrogant shower when they're winning...
Anyone knoe where you can see the highlights of the Ireland v France and Scotland games. The sattelite went in the pub on both occassions.
Both games available on torrent sites
I would agree with everything thereQuote:
Originally Posted by joeSoap
Assumption was that Flannery won't be fit, which is what I've read pretty much everywhere. Is he playing for Munster this weekend?Quote:
Originally Posted by joeSoap
Its all good. Got the highlights on the official RBS6 nations site.
It now appears certain that Murphy is definitely out, and that Dempsey has virtually no chance of making it either. Kearney will be moved to full back, and Horgan on the right wing with Bowe moving across to the left. Luke Fitzgerald will be brought on to the bench.
This now represents a huge day at the office for Kearney. Jones will no doubt bombard him early on, but from what I've seen of him he's more than capable.
Joe you would appear to be our go-to man on all things rugby. Is Murphy and the Swerve being out a good thing in terms of game time for the young lads? Is Kearney an out and out full back or is he just a temp?Quote:
Originally Posted by joeSoap
Thanks for the compliment (I think) but I just follow the game very avidly and have a few friends involved in the set up, so I get to hear stuff, thats all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
I think Kearney will be ok at full back. Its hard to say whether or not he's an out and out full back but any time I've seen him there he looks very comfortable, with a good eye for the high ball, a sweet left foot and great pace. Confidence is the thing, and I'm not sure on how he is with that, but he's done nothing but impress me so far.
Long term, I think Ireland see him as a left winger, with Luke Fitzgerald probably the full back. Theres some serious talent in the backline coming up with Fitzgerald, Kearney, Keith Earls, Felix Jones and Jonathan Sexton on the up.
Thanks for that and yes it was a compliment.Quote:
Originally Posted by joeSoap