Printable View
A couple of years ago, the Star printed clubs' turnover figures as per UEFA Licencing. Kilkenny and Limerick were around E80k for the year. That was the year Limerick were in a complete mess (relatively speaking of course), so they'd have increased a good bit since. There was a bit of a gap to the next team up - about E250k, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by amjl
Caroline Rhatigan was elected to vice chair of the FAI Eircom League sometime before chritmas & has since had to forfeit her directorship at the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by sadloserkid
Bad timing for Kilkenny so.Quote:
Originally Posted by amjl
This highlights the need for EVERY club to get involved at community level and contribute to the social environment. Clubs will not exist on their own, they need support from the wider area and need to give back even more to that area. Not saying Kilkenny are guilty of not doing this but its definitely the way to go for all eL clubs.
"Kilkenny City will survive, we were founded as EMFA in 1966 and just celebrated out 40th birthday and we will be around for our Golden Anniversary in 2016" were the fighting words of a 'Cats' source speaking exclusively to chatsoccer on Thursday evening.
We will Survive
Havent seen that chat soccer site before - is it new or newish?
Would people be prepared to chip in to help out Kilkenny City?
I know i'm good for €50-€100 anyway. Who is up for it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
would be willing to if I knew there was some kind of plan in place...not if the club are to go amateur though. Eircom League is a professional league(or semi pro aqt least)
I will chip in something as well even though I could be on here looking for everyone to chip in and help Athlone yet:DQuote:
Originally Posted by A face
Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
And Limerick too..... please.. :(
D''you know something. I loves me football and I love the underdog but I don't think the heart is in the KK people to support their own local club. I'll back a plan they THEY set up to save their own team
while we're at it could some start a collection for bohs, they'll be needing it soon enough!
If the Wexford Hurlers were able to win as many All-Ireland titles as Kilkenny, I sure the Youths would suffer too as you'd all be too busy dancing at the crossroads to go watch soccer matches!!Quote:
Originally Posted by oldyouth
There are people who do support their local club & volunteer to help out whenever they can. However we do need more support - vocally, physically & financially but its hard when the Hurlers are winning so consistantly and City are finishing bottom of the league year after year.:(
While I am all in favour of a foot.ie whip round, what exactly is the current state of play. Rhatigan is stepping down his financial input, but what is the score with the team: Is there a squad? What is the manager situation? Has training been scheduled yet? Is the license gettable? Is there someone there with a long term strategy for the future yet? And if not, is there someone who could be drafted in to do so?
If I had the money to invest in a football business, these are the questions I would ask. If I were to make a financial contribution, it would ultimately be very small; however it would be a lot for me, especially seeing the fiscal distress that the Blues seem annually to visit. I would like to help Kilkenny, as I have many fine memories of games there, but I do not want to throw cash down the drain that might help a poor struggling club that would could survive - e.g. the Lims, Athlone, Bohs;) - or, as is usually the case, and top of my brief, the Blues.
I really hope that the Cats survive, and are not replaced off the field. They are terribly nice people, and kindly help the rest of us from having to finish bottom any given year - good job they ditched that horrible Scully chap - he simply did not play the game!
FaceQuote:
Originally Posted by A face
It's a lovely thought
But we have problems of our own
And dare I say it a mite more potential/potential for heartbreak if things go tits up than Kilkenny :o
Amlj, you are just confirming my point. For whatever reason, I don't think there is enough support for Kilkenny City Football Club. As for the GAA references in your reply, I proudly hold a record of having never seen or been to a GAA game in my 45 years.
I have been to LOI matches since I was 10 and growing up in Dublin (I think 0-0 was a comulpsory score back then). I went to all the internationals in Dalymount and later Landsdowne Rd when you could easily buy a ticket at the gate. I have travelled the SE with my sons playing schoolboy football in all weathers. In short, if KK were my team, I'd be there even if they were bottom and I don't think there are enough of my type in your area.This is a pity for true fans of the game, which I'm presuming you are
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldyouth
I wasn't disagreeing with you oldyouth. There is a serious lack of support or even a lack of willingness to support soccer in this county from alot of people, which all soccer teams face in this country. There are other uderlining factors which causes this KK, other than GAA as other big GAA counties (in both Hurling & Gaelic) Cork, Galway, Waterford, Wexford have very good followings in soccer by comparison. (albeit maybe due to better catchment as all 4 have much bigger populations, but still)
There is from what I sense some kind of mental thing, particularly between some sections within the local district league & the LOI team in the county that the junior soccer is of a better standard & therefore the better players dont/wont make the step up to senior and from what I've heard, I believe its a similar situation in Limerick (plus they've strong GAA & Rugby folowing to compete with).
I could be totally wrong & I sure I'll be told otherwise if I am, but that is my opinion from my expierence & I'm know it doesn't apply everwhere, but in sections it does.
on the paper today that rhatigan is talikng to a thrird investor today dont know if previous two were willing to help out, shame to see them go, shame to hear ill health has taken someones live work from them
what should happen is they organise a friendly and supporters from all other club turn up to game and show support like wrexham a couple of years ago
Thanks Amjl, we both seem to have taken eachother up wrong, apologies. Basically my point is, if supporters from other clubs say Kilkenny supporters trying hard to save their club, I'm sure they would back you. I love the game and would hate to see any club (LOI, team, Schoolboy etc) fold.
On a totally jovial note, can we have first dibs on your nice stand if it is put up for sale? Me feet are killing me at the Youths
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldyouth
no need id say mick has plans for a 2-3000 seater with individual heated seats and foot warmers, seems to be planning for everything else so why not:D
I even hear that the seats will be recliners with a message setting:rolleyes:
I reckon that would be a good idea if possible to organise.Quote:
Originally Posted by ramsfan
good old mick, has the supporters as no1, will never forget the free feed we got in the club house when we played ye in wexford. top man
surely cant be that hard get a player from each div1/prem to make up panel and play against kilkenny 11Quote:
Originally Posted by Kildare Lad
could sell tickets online?or by phone if people bought and go or not would show support and could go in your teams colours
its not a donation but a proper football way of helping
very good point..you should follow your team through thick and thinQuote:
Originally Posted by oldyouth
Ramsfan, that wasn't a 'free feed'. Mick's still has your unpaid bill and a photo of you stuck up on the club house wallQuote:
Originally Posted by ramsfan
Do the public in Kilkenny want the club to survive? Thats the key question. Hurling is obviously the main sport in Kilkenny and trying to attract fans to watch a club that usually finishes bottom of division 1 is going to be very hard,especially as the ground is a bit out of the way. I'm living in Kilkenny the last few months due to work and never hear anyone talking about Kilkenny City fc and the local media usually has more on junior soccer. I wouldn't like to see any club fold and it'd certainly be a nice away trip next season for the Blues but if the club is only going to get tiny crowds and keep struggling it's hard to what the future is.
I blame this guyQuote:
Originally Posted by trevy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_Carey
there always one, i blame him too:D:D;)
reality is very little have an interest in eircom league soccer, i worked in kilkenny for a while and all that was mentioned was kilkenny hurling they talk about it from underage to senior grade all are more important than soccer
for a small county to have such big success at hurling you cant really blame them. a shame but i believe even if kilkenny were to win cup i still dont think you would get people intersted long term:(
I thought we were blaming Henry Shefflin at the last league game? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Neish
I find the whole thing bizarre.
One member of the board gets sick so there is no one there to run the club? How very unprofessional.
Sad to see any club demise - particularly one like Kilkenny, who are difficult to dislike.
But it's head over heart time here. A lot of posters have commented how Kilkenny's €50k debt is nothing or easily manageable. Well - I'd be surprised if Kilkenny made any sort of profit every year. A €50k debt is far from nothing when nothing is all that you make every year.
The bottom line with Kilkenny is that they are a business that is running on empty. Rightly or wrongly, their product is largely unwanted locally and they have very limited volunteers to run them, and if those persist they will eventually go to the wall. To ignore that factual scenario would be ludicrous. A previous poster mentioned the whole 'if only they had someone who could pay off their €50k debt, then they'd be ok'. No they wouldn't. They would still face the fundamental problem of being a business with a product that is largely unwanted. Short-term sticky plaster cheques do not make clubs viable prospects - and very often just allow them to continue doing what was making them unviable in the first place (e.g. Dublin City, Shelbourne).
Reports say that Rhatigan is talking to "investors" about putting money into the club. Firstly - I've yet to hear of anyone who has put money into Irish football and made anything on it, so "Investors" is just a palatable way of saying 'fools who will throw money at the problem before getting frustrated and walking away when the cold reality eventually bites them'. The jury will be out for a long time on whether Arkaga can make money out of Cork City - a town with a much larger population and footballing tradition than Kilkenny.
The harsh reality is that if Kilkenny can't operate as a viable business in the EL First Division, then they are sitting on the wrong branch of the footballing tree. It gives me no pleasure to say that, but it is an unavoidable fact.
That leaves them only 4 choices to choose from :
1) Drop to a lower level (A League ?).
2) Institute a realistic plan that will dramatically increase their revenues in the short-to-medium-term (dependent on whetehr they need to clear their debt quickly; thoughhard to see a plan that would work so quickly for them).
3) Bury their head in the sand about their viability, and go bust sooner or later (what most unviable EL clubs do).
4) Struggle through with the same current set-up, vainly hoping that the rest of the EL will fall down to their level, allowing them to compete (they'd go bust first).
I would fully expect Jim Rhatigan would have no interest in countenancing any of the above options intentionally - and rightly so, for a man who has given his life to the club. But by so doing he will probably just continue the status quo that will eventually end in Option 3 above. Clubs have no god-given right to continue in football if they can't make their finances work - regardless of how sentimental we want to be about them. Kilkenny are just the latest Irish club to have to face-up to this.
Prepare to be surprised so - they made E6k profit in 2005 and E13k profit in the 2006 season. Their accounts then stated their overall debt to be E76k.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Always thought relegation would do Kilkenny some good - give them the chance of competing at the top of a league (the A League) for a while and try and get some support while they're relatively successful.
Kilkenny all down through the years has been run very well financially, they cut their cloth accordingly and always have done. The day to day, year to year running of the club has been a text book case of what clubs need to do. The 50K is from the development of the new stand, most of which has been covered afaik.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
This is not a club who are living beyond their means as regards the football side of things and it seems that they had nearly everything covered on the development side of things.
I take you point on board steve but not all of what you're saying is true there.
So they are running at a current debt level that is somewhere between three and eight times their annual 'profit' (or between 6 and 12 times profit, depending on whether you want to compare profits and debts from the same accounting years or not). Hardly a sustainable business model, regardless of the fact they made a miniscule profit.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
My point indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I accept your arguement, but my fundamental point is about the viability of certain clubs at certain levels in the footballing tree.Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
From what you say, Kilkenny City are run largely within their means (though running up a debt that is 3-8 times your annual 'profit' ia hardly evidence of operating within your means...!). Despite this, they have finished bottom of the senior footballing pile for the last 2 seasons in a row. That suggests that they are either very badly managed, not viable as a First Division team, or that most or all other First Division teams are not playing to the same financial rules as KCFC are. Whilst there is undoubtedly a degree of the latter, I suspect the harsh reality is that the support levels for Kilkenny City are not sufficient to enable them to compete effectively at the level they're currently at.
The advent of the A League may serve to wash a couple of the current senior clubs that live close to the knuckle out of the First Division.
Unfortunatly it would seem for us, that our Wimbledon type fairytale may be over. When Hamman left Wimbledon the club fell apart. And now the same is going to happen Kilkenny City with Jimmy Rhatigan.
I have been supporting the club through the bad years and the good years. The good memories will be some of the happiest of my life, when your team is fighting tooth and nail to win a game, or when you are just winning to.
The bad memories of when the team is bottom of the league and only manage two points for the season. Almost a record in all of europe I heard people say.
Winning the First Divsion title for the first time in 1997. Our best ever season.
Well at least if the worst happens the club, I can proudly say I was there through the good and the bad.
First up, ignore all the posts re: Kilkenny Hurling is too big so Kilkenny shouldn't even bother trying. We can all say that, every single LOI club, not one doesn't suffer from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
I could guarantee you that if Jim was in full health it wouldn't be nearly as bad as it seems. The guy is unreal, dont ask me how he does it.Quote:
From what you say, Kilkenny City are run largely within their means (though running up a debt that is 3-8 times your annual 'profit' ia hardly evidence of operating within your means...!).
Admittedly things on the pitch have been put on hold while developing the ground. Lots of international games played there in the past but very few played there in the last 5 years. I dont know, its not my place to say it but i question why the games actually stopped. Was the ground developed with this in mind i dont know but i would see it as a kick in the teeth if i had gone to all that effort. I'm not suggesting anything .... honest, i swear.Quote:
Despite this, they have finished bottom of the senior footballing pile for the last 2 seasons in a row. That suggests that they are either very badly managed, not viable as a First Division team
Well if other clubs struggle to have their books in order (you only struggle to have your books in order if the figures dont add up, no other reason) and Kilkenny City has a history of at least 20 years of impeccable accounts then it definitely isn't a level playing field.Quote:
or that most or all other First Division teams are not playing to the same financial rules as KCFC are. Whilst there is undoubtedly a degree of the latter,
Over the last three years the numbers have dropped off alright, directly related to the lack of investment on the pitch, but like all clubs that picks up again as soon as that can change. Name a club that hasn't gone through a bad time, i can remember games at the cross when there was only 800. Crowds at Buckley Park have dropped off, things might be different if the crowds were there through the 'thin' but to suggest they shouldn't be there when they have been fine for years is mad. I think some fans have short memories.Quote:
I suspect the harsh reality is that the support levels for Kilkenny City are not sufficient to enable them to compete effectively at the level they're currently at.
Wouldn't it have been worse if debts were ignored and players were bought, its not like we haven't seen that in the past.
Maybe the A League is the answer right now for Kilkenny, but as soon as they are sorted i cant see a reason why they should be back up in the first giving it as good as everyone else. Did Ramblers think they'd be in top flight 5 years ago, not a chance when John (whos surname escapes me now, played for Shels and in Belgium for a while till he got a bad leg injury, red hair) was managing them and half the board were actively trying to get rid of him, cursing when they won a game. Ramblers are in the Top Flight this year on merit after coming through their bad patch.Quote:
The advent of the A League may serve to wash a couple of the current senior clubs that live close to the knuckle out of the First Division.
Its swings and roundabouts for all clubs.
Obviously Jim Rhatigans motto that you cant spend €3 when you are only taking in €2 wasnt working!
I have to correct you on that comparison Pat, as it's unfair on Jim !Quote:
Originally Posted by patcorr
Sam Hamman was the man who put Wimbledon on the direct road to disaster. He was the one who took them out of Plough Lane, with no plans for an alternative stadium (a la Louis Kilcoyne in Ireland), forcing them to groundhare in the very unpopular stadium of their main rivals (Selhurst). He then hatched the idea of moving the club to another town - primarily championing Dublin, but also talking about Belfast and Glasgow - and used that idea to persuade a bunch of gullible Norwegian business men that moving the club was more or less an eventual certainty. This allowed him to sell the club at a value above what they were actually worth. Sadly, the rest is history.
So Sam Hamman caused Wimbledon to fall apart by selling their ground, leaving them homeless, and effectively lying to the people he sold them to. He had done the damage before he'd left. From what I hear of Jim Rhatigan, he couldn't be more different in either his actions or his intentions.
According to this morning's Indo Sporting Fingal are being put on standby to replace any clubs who may not be able to take their place in the First Division.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...r-1266310.html