wasn't Venables his manager at Barcelona?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
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wasn't Venables his manager at Barcelona?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Myth, he actually took a team that had avoided the drop by 2 points the season before, make £7m profit on transfers and qualified them for Europe. Admittedly he had a bad start the next season but was sacked in November when he could have turned it round but they threw a fortune at Brain Kidd instead who was a total disaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Show me where there's a Leeds or a Palace (2nd time) or an Australia on Hodgson's record.
I'll give you that most of his work was at a lower level bar Inter and Blackburn but it's a nonsense to say he has as many holes in his record as TV's.....
1. The anecdote I quoted was merely a humourous aside to another poster's contention that all footballers are "notoriously thick";Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
2. Therefore I was not comparing El Tels credentials for the job with those of Sven in the same way as I was e.g. those of Hodgson;
3. Besides, Sven is not a candidate for the ROI job and never will be, until or unless Delaney offers him more money than he's on at City, in which case he'll be over in Dublin quicker than a rat up a drainpipe.
So never mind the "bluffer", just what the Hell was your point? :confused:
I seem to remember some years back venebles threw his hat into the ring for the Wales job, telling the papers about his welsh family and how proud he would be to manage them. The Welsh FA pack together a package which they made clear was stretching them, offering twice the salary of the previous manager (cant remember who). Venebles asked for twice that amount again and refused to consider the job for anything less. In my opinion he is totally motivated by money and in that sense, he has had a successful career.
I meant that Venables wasn't the England manager when Lineker got his 80 caps and 48 goals. Lineker was a magnificent player, who played under a number of top coaches and was always going to be a millionaire, irrespective of whether he ever played for Venables.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Therefore, considering he owes neither his career in football nor his wealth to Venables, I can see no special reason which he might have for lying when he praises Venables's coaching acumen.
Money is certainly a major influence on Venables and if he senses that the FAI want/need him, he'll be a hard man to pay. Still, that shouldn't of itself disqualify him from the job. After all, Jack Charlton sure "knows the value of a shilling" and as I alluded elsewhere, those who know him would tell you that a certain Swedish ex-England manager could teach El Tel a thing or two about screwing money out of his employers! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by RiffRaff
Leeds was the longest running car crash in English football, as via virtual bankruptcy, they slid under a succession of managers from the CL Semi Finals to the old 3rd Division. This slide both preceded and succeeded TV's time at the club, so all you can say about him there was that he didn't make a dreadful situation any better, before getting out when he could.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
I strongly suspect that Venables had absolutely no idea of the scale of the disaster that he was letting himself in for at Elland Road, including e.g. that no sooner than he arrived, he would be told by the banks to conduct a fire-sale of any player who could raise a few bob in the transfer market. Or does anyone really think it was TV's idea of building a decent team to sell the likes of Robbie Keane for £7million ?
As for Australia, would you like to back up your insinuation that TV's time in charge was some sort of disaster? It might not have been a triumph on a par with that of Hiddinck (screwed up somewhat in the Russia job, btw), but nor was it noticeably worse than any other of their managers. Afaik, his departure from the job was as much to do with concern at unusual "coincidences" of players getting their first cap from TV for Oz, then suddenly getting transfers to English clubs, than it was for his coaching ability.
EG, you'd argue it was night when it's clearly day, just for the sake of it I reckon.
Robbie Fowler's a genius because he had an extremely lucrative job and was immensely cash rich during the biggest property bull market on record? I'd be very surprised if any 90s footballer hasn't amassed a fortune on his investments since given financial and real asset inflation over the last 15 years. Most would employ advisors too I'd guess.
My point was that you can barely trust a footballer's instinct on football, bizarre as it may sound. Alan Shearer last night was a case in point. An absolutely stunning career domestically and internationally and all he can propose at half time is to "eh...get in amonst 'em". I'm not sure Shearer's would be the first reference I'd seek yet I always got the impression he's a smart enough guy.
I'd love to know Lineker's earnings at Spurs versus his earnings at Barcelona. Do you know?
im sure he made more in japanQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
and for walkers
The insinuation from the anecdote that you quoted was that Fowler, as a sucessful businessman (which I think everyone was aware of, his property portfolio is common knowledge) and someone who knows the workings of a dressing room had spotted Sven as a bluffer. You'd earlier derided my description of Venables as a spoofer due to his limited success so hence the reply. Surely if you wanted to show that Fowler wasn't 'notoriously thick' all you had to do was mention his property dealings, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
With Jewell out Giles is now backing Venables.
Sun will run Pat Walker as an interested candidate
As a Leeds fan I concur that the situation wasn't great when Venables took over but he undoubtedly made a bad situation far far worse. What fire sale was this you refer to? When TV took over the only player that was sold was Rio Ferdinand which, given that Woodgate was fit again shouldn't have been a problem and the cash was too much to turn down. he then brought in his mate Nicky Barmby on around £80k per week and sold Robbie Keane to get him off the wage bill to accommodate Barmby. Do you really think that Leeds' creditors would have started looking for their money back had Leeds been top of the league at Christmas (where the same squad had been 12 months previous)? No chance, the reason panic set in was because Venables had been an unmitigated disaster in charge and according to Trevor Birch (one of the few people to emerge from the wreckage of Leeds with any credit) had totally lost the dressing room. He wouldn't play Batty or Dacourt and had his old mate Okon in midfield on another massive wage. He was pure ****e, played players totally out of position and looked a spent force tactically by then. The sales only really kicked in in January when the transfer window opened.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
As for his time in Australia, for pretty much every other campaign they had to go into a play off against a South American team (Argentina a couple of times and Uruguay spring to mind) and were unfortunate not to come through. Venables had the fortune to get a play off against Iran and maged to blow it. that's a disaster and noticeably worse then previous managers with lesser reputations in my book. And he left because they got knocked out rather then any other reason, as far as I recall he was half assed with it anyway as he was screwing over Pompey at the same time.
It would even be a step up the ladder to manage Pats after Örebro.Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerc
Is this the time when desperate people start to find rationality in strange end of the world is nigh in 10 days time cults unless we do something like give the best football job in the land to a guy who manages mediocrity in the Swedish heartland.
Giles on newstalk earliers said Venables was a candidate that should be looked at thats all.Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerc
Said he's a good manager when he's serious about a job but he's often distracted by his outside interests.
the full interview with giles will be up here tomorrow
You think I'd rely on newstalk?Quote:
Originally Posted by eekers
well a few posts back, you relied on a rag!Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerc
Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerc
What wrong with relying on an actual half hour with John Giles on Newstalk that i listened to earlier, over who Giles is backing. ie No one yet.
here's a quote from the examiner considering you dont believe in radio
Giles told Newstalk: “I think he (Venables) would be another good candidate. He’s proven himself in the past. If you look back on his career, he’s had a long career, and like anyone who’s had a long career, he’s had a patchy career. He’s had some good success and he’s had a few jobs which were not so good, but overall he’ll definitely be a candidate for the job.”
Hunt said Venables was good because Nicky Shorey, occasional English squad member, said he was good at England. I'd hope that the FAI make their choice based on something more substantial than this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
I do have an open mind. I've athought since the mid 90s that Venables was overrated and I've seen or heard little since that has persuaded me otherwise.
Both Fanning & Hyland have come back to me, Hyland a few times.
Each had a degree of flexibility.
I don't think it's fair to quote them publicly - they were personal messages.
Fair play for responding.
ya, i wont quote my response either as the first was fair enough, but the last one was a backtrack of enormous proportions. So, least to say I have been vindicated :D If anyone wants to see it pm me.
Fair play to them for responding though.
Thank God for Daniel McDonnell - big negative piece on El Tel this morning(online anyway)
Link: http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...l-1227377.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
It's in the paper aswell,Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
El Tel
By Daniel McDonnell
Friday November 23 2007
Never has it seemed more appropriate to pluck out that old saying about England sneezing and Ireland catching a cold. These are ripe times for infection.
It's rare that the failure of the English national side could have such a knock on effect for those on this side of the pond. Normally, the tragi-comic collapse of our neighbours provides a certain amount of comfort in the summers where we have become accustomed to watching major championships from afar.
Perhaps it's an immature kind of pleasure but then it's hard not to smile at the reaction to what unfolded on Wednesday night when you consider that the BBC's three wise men of Hansen, Wright and Shearer all predicted facile victories for McClaren's band of brothers.
When Hansen had the temerity to suggest that it may not quite be a stroll in the park for the Wembley hosts, Wright even scolded him for taking a trip to 'negative town'. With such brazen and misplaced confidence, the subsequent capitulation became devilishly enjoyable.
Worrying
What is worrying, however, is that there were Irish people celebrating England's demise for a very different reason. For them, the silver lining of a European Championships without England is that it smoothes the way for Terry Venables to become the man to replace Steve Staunton.
It's remarkable really. While people revel in the inexplicable failure of an English side to qualify for the first time since the disastrous reign of Graham Taylor, there is a willingness to take a key component of that management staff and thrust him with the responsibility of leading Ireland forward.
If the common consensus is that we need a leader to bring the best out of the players we have and possibly look for them to perform beyond their abilities to make it to South Africa in 2010, then it makes little sense to turn to someone who was a member of a set-up that has somehow succeeded in bringing the worst out of their vaunted stars.
But wait, it's not that simple. Or so we are told. The mess is apparently nothing to do with El Tel. After all, he wasn't the manager and had a strained relationship with McClaren long before they were handed their P45's yesterday.
So that's alright then. What that argument ignores, unfortunately, is what is understood to be a key reason behind their fall-out.
When McClaren was appointed, he turned to Venables because he was believed to be strong in the area of tactical flexibility. It was a common theme put forward at the time; Venables had been in this game before so his knowledge of systems would be an asset. During his time as England boss, he had experimented with a degree of success.
The problem was that Venables did not negotiate England through a qualifying group when he was in the hot-seat. Considering they were the hosts of Euro '96, he had the luxury of spending two years dithering around with various formations in a non-pressurised environment.
In the competition itself, the enduring memory is England's agonising penalty kick defeat to Germany in the semi-finals of the competition. Never mind that they should have lost to the Spanish but triumphed by the same method at the quarter- final stage or needed a missed penalty from Gary McAllister to help them past Scotland. Sure, it's a tad harsh to take away from his side's performances in that competition but host countries rarely fail to threaten in such tournaments.
Anyway, this is where we move onto this campaign where at an early stage the influence of Venables was apparent. England switched to his favoured 3-5-2 for last year's qualifier in Croatia and flopped. The root of the breakdown in the relationship between McClaren and Venables lies there. Since then, it has consistently leaked out that El Tel is unsatisfied with not being consulted properly about formations and team selection.
Leaks
Ah yes, the leaks. A central aspect behind the clamour for Venables has been strong media support which has been a feature of his career to date. He knows how to play the press pack and look after journalists.
He's a smart guy and his logic made sense. Keep a couple of the more influential members in the loop and the legacy will be stronger. Consequently, his track record in handling the media and the circus similar to what the Irish job has become is regarded as a positive. We are suckers, it seems, for a bit of charisma.
The momentum behind the Venables campaign in some quarters is, literally, frightening. Sure, he ticks several of the boxes for what is wanted from a replacement with plenty of experience and some notable achievements when he was working his way up the managerial ladder.
But his recent record is appalling. The only high point was his admittedly fine effort when saving Bryan Robson's Middlesbrough from the drop six years ago. Other than that, his Australia experiment didn't work, his spells with Portsmouth and Crystal Palace were embarrassing and his stint at Leeds -- although it was a club in turmoil -- was littered with gaffes in the transfer market.
The belief that he got a raw deal with England after departing due to his complicated business dealings (let's not go there) was why there was a concerted campaign to give him another shot with the Three Lions. Now, after that experiment failed spectacularly, our desire for a big personality is obviously enough to deem his recent endeavours irrelevant.
What's frustrating is that the thrills and spills at Wembley was the wrong game for the FAI to be keeping their eye on the other night. With a bit of luck, they were monitoring affairs in Porto where Finland's goalless draw against Portugal was not enough to book a spot in Austria and Switzerland for the visitors.
The Finns never quite threatened to get the win which would have brought them to the big stage for the first time but they have come remarkably close with a limited panel. In a difficult group, they have conceded just seven goals and their lack of firepower can be attributed to lengthy injuries suffered by main men Mikkel Forssell and Jari Litmanen.
Their English manager Roy Hodgson is likely to move on and not with the stench of failure. The Finnish FA is desperate to keep him there but his career has been characterised by the desire for a new challenge and Ireland comes under that bracket. He is out of contract and therefore free to talk.
Exploits
Now aged 60, Hodgson steered Switzerland to USA '94 and Euro '96 and while his club career has had its ups and downs, his Finnish exploits prove that the international game is where he thrives. Lazily, his claims for the Irish post will be mocked due to an unremarkable stint in charge of Blackburn 10 years ago. On the other hand, we must delve into Venables' history in a search for any kind of positive.
We shouldn't be looking for just a Premiership manager though, or someone we rate because we recognise them off the telly and reckon they'd be engaging company. What we need is an international boss whose methods still seem capable of securing results in an arena where a special kind of expertise is required.
That man is Hodgson, not Venables -- yet there's far more chance of the latter being handed the reins should he want them. Baffling, but then this is the country we live in. Chilly times indeed.
- Daniel McDonnell
Can someonme else tell Kevin doyle to stop spouting "stream of conciousness" nonsense to the media. Anyway, the press are asking him about Venables & he'd say "ok", not eaxctly Doyle going out of his way to say Venables is the one. Dangerous all the same.
AI should steer clear of “Z-List” Venables – Dunphy
November 23, 2007
Outspoken pundit Eamon Dunphy believes the Football Association of Ireland should not touch Terry Venables “with a bargepole”.
Venables is the new bookmakers’ favourite following his dismissal from the England management team and the withdrawal of Paul Jewell from the Irish race.
But Dunphy is far from convinced by the merits of the 64-year-old Londoner in relation to the Ireland position.
In his Irish Daily Star column on Friday, he wrote: “Do we want England’s cast-off? Venables was sacked yesterday for his role in England’s disastrous Euro 2008 campaign and it means he still hasn’t managed to spend over two years in any of his last seven jobs in football.
“But Venables has this Teflon tendency to deflect all criticism away from him. Steve McClaren was a disastrous appointment by the English FA but Venables’s fingerprints are all over a lot of the low points of the manager’s tenure.”
Dunphy added: “If you want to know why the FAI should not touch Venables with a bargepole, then you only have to look at the way he spent the first half at Wembley against Croatia in the royal box hobnobbing with Britain’s Prince William. Remember, England were 2-0 down at the time.
“But that sums up Venables. An A-List celebrity with his fondness for singing on chat shows but, these days, he’s a Z-List manager.”
This is good news. Daniel McDonnell and now Dunphy coming out against the candidacy of Venables. The FAI will surely see reason and know that they can't appoint someone like him. Then again, this is the FAI of course.
can u just imagine venables play 352 with ireland
even though we dont have 3 centre backs or 3 central midfielders. it would be a disaster. kilbane and finnan on the wings :D
He has no chance of getting the job. Will not get selected by the FAI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmurphyc
:D:D:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondvillain
Tony Francis: Wow, what a game! A fantastic goal by Owarain. The Saudis seem to have some good players and have surprised a lot of people. What do you reckon Don, can you see any of them signing for British clubs?
Don Howe: Well, they've done well today, but you'd have to be worried whether or not they'd turn up to training, what with all the praying and that.
(General merriment in the studio, Venablesesque guffawing abounds)
Tony Francis: But it is a serious issue though.
Actually, I've just found an article about football TV coverage, including discussion of the efferverscent and patently stupid Matthew Lorenzo. They reference the Howe moment thus:
Yet Lorenzo wasn't helped by his pundits. Denis Law didn't seem to care less, and when asked what he thought the Spanish coach would be saying to his team after a poor performance replied, "I don't know, I can't speak Spanish". Worst of the lot, though, was Don Howe. He was considered one of the most adept coaches in the game, but was abysmal as a pundit. Not only did his oversized glasses and bald pate make him an unlikely TV star, but his flat Yorkshire accent, dour opinions and patronising manner made even the most serious-minded viewer hanker for the liveliness of Jimmy Greaves. One of his most notorious moments came when he was asked if any Saudi Arabian players would be worth signing by an English team. Howe suggested, "You'd have problems because of the praying all the time, you wouldn't know if they'd turn up for training. I'm being serious", addressing the final sentence at his fellow pundits roaring with laughter.
giles talking about venables last night
http://83.138.170.50/podcasts/audio/2211giles.mp3
That's it. He has no chance. Dunphy has spoken out against him: the font of all knowledge :rolleyes: Mind you, first time I've ever agreed with anything he has said.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmurphyc
Was upsetting to hear Cas and Lawro singing El Tel's praises last night though on the Last Word. Most of text messages though they were getting were negative thank God.
El Tel is a failures assistant.:rolleyes:
Why can't we have a proper failure like the last one :D
Hyland blowing Venables again big time on the back of the herald. Also takes time to have another cut at McCarthy in what has to be a non story, can't see him leaving Wolves at this stage.
At least they have a counter arguement inside, Eamon Carr is dead against it and articulates the obvious reasons pretty well.
Garry Doyle in the Mirror says a lot of the same things as Carr, only in a slightly less articulate manner....
ffs Delaney is in London tonight talking to a candidate according to cascarino on todayfm there
If he's meeting Venables hopefully they'll be mutually unimpressed
there should be no decision til after sundays draw anyway
Can´t be true.Quote:
Originally Posted by eekers
Cas, as we are told is unworthy or untrustworthy and according to Noely, Venables is not on the FAI agenda.
Isn´t Delaney on his way to South Africa?
Suggest Delaney is in London on his way to South Africa!!Quote:
Originally Posted by eekers
Sorry geysir: didn't see your post, but glad someone is on same wave length!
cas is a p-rick alright, just letting yous know what he told the country.
hope he's on the same flight as hodgson
cas is as likely to be bigging up venables because he has a six figure sum on him
mc donald is on newstalk now with his anti venables line
i remember hearing this story before so i went searching for it again on the internet found this
http://community.channel4.com/eve/fo...6/m/9040052245
confirmed it here http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,913642,00.html
Quote:
I heard a story that sums him up perfectly. When he bought into Tottenham, he found out that, in the Bill Nicholson Suite, there was a dancefloor which was one of the highest quality floors in Europe. He had this dug up and swapped it with the one in his extremely tacky Scribes West club.