Gavin Defends Setanta Decision

Ok here's a doomsday scenario. Some season in the future. The FAI Cup winners go down the same season ( Bray did this in 1999 hear me out), The League Cup is won by a First Division team ( Limerick FC did this a few years back) That could mean that in the Setanta the following season. The Eircom League is represented by the previous years Cup winners ( currently a First Division side) and the League Cup winners win the play-off with the First Division champions meaning that this slot is also a First Division side. So you would have 2 First Division teams in the Setanta. I happen to think they would hold their own against the lesser lights North of the Border, particularly the 3rd and 4th placed finishers there.

Places for the Setanta Cup should be awarded on clubs performances off the pitch, with perhaps a presentation and a DVD also required. Surely any club featuring "Right Here, Right Now" on the DVD soundtrack would be a shoe-in.

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Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

Ok here's a doomsday scenario. Some season in the future. The FAI Cup winners go down the same season ( Bray did this in 1999 hear me out), The League Cup is won by a First Division team ( Limerick FC did this a few years back) That could mean that in the Setanta the following season. The Eircom League is represented by the previous years Cup winners ( currently a First Division side) and the League Cup winners win the play-off with the First Division champions meaning that this slot is also a First Division side. So you would have 2 First Division teams in the Setanta. I happen to think they would hold their own against the lesser lights North of the Border, particularly the 3rd and 4th placed finishers there.

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Yes I can see how that would bring about the apocalpyse alright

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Originally Posted by sduffy

The FAI should fine O'Connor and Rico €5,000 each.

The FAI can't have people saying what they think!!

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Ye God forbid people speak their mind because if they do they are called moaners/whingers!!!

Ah, quit your whinging.

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Originally Posted by btid1

Ye God forbid people speak their mind because if they do they are called moaners/whingers!!!

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What an amazing piece of irony after you filled 5 pages with you own whinging :D

Both managers are among the worst moaners in the league. Especially Rico.

If Cark or Bohs were in Setanta you wouldn't hear a murmur from either.

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Originally Posted by fbtn

What an amazing piece of irony after you filled 5 pages with you own whinging :D

Both managers are among the worst moaners in the league. Especially Rico.

If Cark or Bohs were in Setanta you wouldn't hear a murmur from either.

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I love the way expressing an alternative opinion on this board is seen as whinging!

What else has Connor been "moaning" about lately?

I have my opinion on this regardless of whether Bohs are in or not.

Again I wonder would your opinion be the same if you were not in line to profit from the situation?

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Actually you were talking about Harps' fairweather support as if 'twere an affliction Derry was immune to but anyhoo....

If they get into the Setanta, Harps will get bigger home gates than Drgheda for example.



Home games are the issue here steve

Outside of Derry there was no "vast hordes" ( :rolleyes: btw) descending on Belfast from the other clubs



You're kidding yourself if you think Harps wont pull in a crowd for home games against Linfield and Glentoran

After that who cares??

How many were at Cork v Dungannon Swifts for example??

Would their crowds be worse than the Northern teams crowds??



And it's ludicrous to suggest they wouldn't draw a large crowd for a semi final/final.



You genuinely chose to take me literally there?? Really couldn't see what I was getting at?? Really?? :rolleyes:

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I knew I shoulda bought ya a pint in the gallery a few weeks ago :D

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Originally Posted by btid1

I love the way expressing an alternative opinion on this board is seen as whinging!

What else has Connor been "moaning" about lately?

I have my opinion on this regardless of whether Bohs are in or not.

Again I wonder would your opinion be the same if you were not in line to profit from the situation?

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My opinion would be the same, most definite, its the rules set out at the start of the season, simple as.

Would your opinion be the same if Conor didnt slam it?

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Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy

Would your opinion be the same if Conor didnt slam it?

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So now your saying I dont have my own mind and only re-hash whatever Connor comes out with.........?........Give me a break will ya!

One person I certainly dont look to for inspiration when I am forming my opinions is our esteemed leader!

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Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

Ok here's a doomsday scenario. Some season in the future.

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How is that related to the LC winners playing off against the First Division winners? In your scenario we'd still have 2 first division teams regardless of the playoff.

I'll welcome it - only if Harps win the league though. It'll guarantee a good bit of revenue for both clubs.

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Originally Posted by btid1

I love the way expressing an alternative opinion on this board is seen as whinging!

What else has Connor been "moaning" about lately?

I have my opinion on this regardless of whether Bohs are in or not.

Again I wonder would your opinion be the same if you were not in line to profit from the situation?

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Do you think there is a difference between giving your opinion and whinging?

Because I do and I know what category you are in from reading this entire thread.

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Originally Posted by btid1

So now your saying I dont have my own mind and only re-hash whatever Connor comes out with.........?........Give me a break will ya!

One person I certainly dont look to for inspiration when I am forming my opinions is our esteemed leader!

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Its exactly the same as what you claimed about us.

"Again I wonder would your opinion be the same if you were not in line to profit from the situation?"

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Originally Posted by fbtn

Do you think there is a difference between giving your opinion and whinging?

Because I do and I know what category you are in from reading this entire thread.

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In your opinion...........and to be honest thats not worth all that much to me........but thanks anyway.......

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Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy

Its exactly the same as what you claimed about us.

"Again I wonder would your opinion be the same if you were not in line to profit from the situation?"

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Its not because I dont intimate that someone else is responsible for the formation of your opinion I simply asked if circumstances may have clouded your view on the issue.

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Originally Posted by btid1

Its not because I dont intimate that someone else is responsible for the formation of your opinion I simply asked if circumstances may have clouded your view on the issue.

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Not just Harps fans who think it's a good idea

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Originally Posted by jebus

Not just Harps fans who think it's a good idea

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Maybe not but it is mainly fans of first div clubs that think its a good idea.

And fans of clubs most likely to miss out who think it's a bad one.

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Originally Posted by btid1

Maybe not but it is mainly fans of first div clubs that think its a good idea.

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So what? Is the EL turning into a Animal Farm situation where the pigs voice is louder than the rest of ours?

So far on this thread we've basically had one bohs fan moaning about it, and a few Derry fans.

Against that we've had one pats fans, a couple of Limerick lads and a fair few harps.

Lets not start thinking we're representing anything other than our own opinions

Round and round the thread doth go.

Where it's going - well no-one really knows

I believe it's a good idea.

It makes the Frst Division more rewarding. It spreads the money around as well so we won't end up like Italy where the big 3 control all the television money.

A lot of the First Div clubs could do with a bit of money. And surely the money generated from the Setanta cup and the 4 or so competitive games before the league starts would give them a better chance of staying up that year.

Can't see anything wrong with it, imo.

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Originally Posted by superfrank

I believe it's a good idea.

It makes the Frst Division more rewarding. It spreads the money around as well so we won't end up like Italy where the big 3 control all the television money.

A lot of the First Div clubs could do with a bit of money. And surely the money generated from the Setanta cup and the 4 or so competitive games before the league starts would give them a better chance of staying up that year.

Can't see anything wrong with it, imo.

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Good man, that is exactly the way I feel about it. Regardless of what division we are in.

The First Division is rightly referred to as the graveyard division. Every bit of help that can assist the 'smaller' clubs can only be seen as a positive thing.

Some of the 'bigger' clubs would be happier with a six team league and playing one another 8 times a year and to hell with the rest of them.

Some of the 'bigger' clubs would be happier with a six team league and playing one another 8 times a year and to hell with the rest of them.[/quote]
Your talking rubbish to win the Premier Division you have to beat all teams in the league. Look at last year the points Derry dropped during the season. Most of them were against teams in the bottom 6. So it is a competitive league. All we are saying is that the League Cup Winners should have had home advantage as reward for winning the cup. And let the 1st Division winners travel. I do hope we get Harps in the play off and also hope Setanta provide live coverage of the game would be a great advert for Irish football.

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Originally Posted by Flexy

Your talking rubbish to win the Premier Division you have to beat all teams in the league. Look at last year the points Derry dropped during the season. Most of them were against teams in the bottom 6. So it is a competitive league. All we are saying is that the League Cup Winners should have had home advantage as reward for winning the cup. And let the 1st Division winners travel. I do hope we get Harps in the play off and also hope Setanta provide live coverage of the game would be a great advert for Irish football.

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Who said Derry were in that six? Not going by the league table this year anyway so put your handbag away.

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Originally Posted by TheBoss

I think FAI are trying to give the teams in North a chance to do well if there was a first division in the competition, they are hoping that Derry Lose and the winner of D1 goes through to give the Northern Teams a chance.

Also, what if Derry and Bohs were already in the Setanta Cup via different ways, would the first division team go in automatically ?

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Go one better to give the northern sides a chance. Change the scheduling of the competition and that way when the final of the setanta comes around Linfield won't have played fifty odd matches and that will really even it up.

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Originally Posted by waide

Go one better to give the northern sides a chance. Change the scheduling of the competition and that way when the final of the setanta comes around Linfield won't have played fifty odd matches and that will really even it up.

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Aye - huge advantage to the EL sides alright. Having to play competitive games after a 3 month break, against sides in full-stride half-way through their season....:o

Sure why not make it fairer still and only play all games in Belfast with the teams and ref only allowed speak Ulster-Scots..... :D

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Originally Posted by harps1954

But why all the complaints NOW? Why wasn't this flagged before any club signed up to the new league and changed then? Why wasn't Rico or Connor complaining about this a year ago when they knew it was coming? It's a bit like Dundalk last year - they complained after the event, even though they had signed up to something. Or is it a case that club's just signed up to the new FAI run league without bothering to check what they signed up for?

Clubs knew long before the start of the season what they were signing up for and that winning the League Cup didn't give automatic qualification into the Setanta Cup. I still don't know what Rico and Connor are complaining about. They haven't won the League Cup anyhow, so it doesn't involve them. Even if there was no play-off with the First Division champions, Derry would still have qualified for the Setanta Cup by winning the league cup and Bohs and Cork in 3rd and 4th place would still have had to be content with missing out.

I'd love to see Longford win the FAI Cup now, just to sicken Rico futher.

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ya id love it too, rico is a bad loser. we played city in the league cup 2 years ago or last year. b4 game rico was saying that wanted to win it as it gives access to setanta. they put on a full side(one of the few times that season due to ocallaghan leaving) and we played them off the park and the scoreline flattered them, it was 1 nil with 2nd goal disallowed. rico comes out and says theres no future in the league cup and that they dont care about it. *******.. a sign of a good team with a bit oif class will not resort to cribbing after the game and will give dues to opponents.
rico also has commented on UCD, saying their not good enough but the faact is that city have a shocking record against them, also ucd can actually play nice football, unlike city these days.

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Originally Posted by Stato

It should at least be given a year or two to see how it works. For a start the Division 1 winners still have to beat the League Cup winners so, arguably, if they manage to do that they are a better side than the League Cup winners and deserve their place.

If, however, we end up with a situation where the Div 1 champions lose all 6 games by a cricket score it'll need to be reviewed. In saying that, Pats managed to put 13 goals past Portadown and Dungannon in four games and Cork managed something similar.

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In a one-off, it's not always the best team wins.

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However, Gavin has stood by the initiative and points out that the playoff could boost the coffers of those clubs involved

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It could also be a very costly playoff, if Derry City have to travel all the way to Cobh, or vice-versa.

If they wanted it to boost the coffers of the clubs involved they could have made it a two legged playoff.

If it is Derry and Harps the grounds would be packed.

I strikes me it was a back door attempt to get Shels back into the big time, thinking they would have won the 1st div this year.

By the way there is no way the IL would let a 1st div club represent them in anything.

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Originally Posted by bigmac

How is that related to the LC winners playing off against the First Division winners? In your scenario we'd still have 2 first division teams regardless of the playoff.

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If the League Cup Winners are a First Division team and then beat the First Division Champions... then in my scenario( where the Cup winners are relegated) you would have two First Division teams in the Setanta. By implication if the First Division Champions win the play -off they are a Premier Division side by the time the Setanta Cup commences .:rolleyes: For the purposes of the example I wanted to make sure that the two teams I select were actually still First Division sides , when playing in the following season Setanta Cup.


As regards the recent comments about UCD. Thanks about the nice football , but we haven't scored in five games so that becomes very difficult to watch.

To be fair i dont see anything wrong with the way they've decided to do it! As some people have already said, it makes the first division even more interesting and that can only be a good thing for everyone :)

i think the playoff is a good idea. Any game that will be high profile and bring out the crowds has to be good for the clubs involved and for the league.

We know only really big games (ie crucial league games or knockout games)bring out the crowds to LOI so no harm in adding another one to the calendar.

Anyway it was brought in to make it easier for First Division teams to swallow the system that got Galway "promoted" last season.

We all know Rico loves the sound of his own voice and any comments of his should be taken with a large grain of salt. The playoff makes no difference to City anyway as if there was no playoff Derry would have qualifed anyway as LC winners.

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Originally Posted by Derry

I strikes me it was a back door attempt to get Shels back into the big time, thinking they would have won the 1st div this year.

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Paranoid conspiracy theory, not at all grounded in reality.

Shels were not the favourites for promotion (Dundalk were), so unless the FAI was taking a huge leap of faith then it would have been clearly a pointless effort on their part anyway. Also - why would the FAI give a fcuk about Shels anyways ? I wish people would just grow out of the obsessive Shels conspiracys - Ollie's dead now people. Tiem to move on...

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Originally Posted by Derry

By the way there is no way the IL would let a 1st div club represent them in anything.

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And with bloody good reason too........!! :eek:

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Originally Posted by Cosmo

As some people have already said, it makes the first division even more interesting and that can only be a good thing for everyone :)

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How does it make the first division more interesting:confused: If the only automatic promotion spot isn't enough to motivate first division clubs then they don't deserve any extra rewards :)

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Originally Posted by Jerry The Saint

How does it make the first division more interesting:confused: If the only automatic promotion spot isn't enough to motivate first division clubs then they don't deserve any extra rewards

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Get your point - but its an extra incentive - alot of financial rewards for the setanta cup - win it some time ,and ye might realise ;):)