Oh dear.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by sylvo
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Oh dear.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by sylvo
To tar a body of people who want to support their football team with the same brush is using the tools of bigotry.
I hope we beat Slovakia with Darron Gibsons help.I hope NI also win with Tony
Kane on board if need be.
The somewhat unique political landscape on this Island is always going to throw up some anomolies regarding Sporting representation.
Will some of you chill out ffs.
Well said cheifo.Quote:
Originally Posted by cheifo
Don't be such a fool. Are you really so blinkered when it comes to NI? Kane was at the time a ROI player and not a NI player. You really don't have a clue. Whenever someone shoots you down (which is fairly easy to do if one can be bothered to read the entirety of one of your posts) with a logical argument you either ignore them (as in my last post on this thread) or make some ridiculous, nonsensical statement with a stupid smiley face as per above.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
What the IFA did with Kane and Gibson when they were ROI players is no different to what you claim the FAI were trying to do with Baird and/or McKenna. Face this fact at least and try to grow up.
To everyone else. Why do we put up with this endless NI dribble polluting our boards when ourweecountry ban you for a single post if you don't agree with the general consensus?
Maybe YI,
but some of the comments by a minority of our supporters are embarressing and bordering on something nasty.Theres no point quoting the GFA unless you agree the spirit of it is a two way street.Some of the comments on the DG situation have been unfortunate but can you honestly say they have only come from NI supporters.The referals to NI being a pub team is at best begrudgery and at worst downright prejudice.Any real football fan would surely agree that when a country of One&3/4 million people take on the prima donnas of the Primera league and the Premiership and puts them in their place then the team from that country deserves all the credit they are due.Goodness, I wish our team would start playing to its strenghts in the same fashion.
What that man said. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by cheifo
There's a few on here who apply one (quite lowly at times) standard or us and a very different one for them.
Youngirish, do you not think you would last very long on that OWC forum if you restricted your content to football matters only?
Your mild, measured and balanced approach when offering another perspective (eg. on David Healy) would surely be welcome :)
There are also a number of people that give credence to a lot of what EG posts just because he is a supporter of NI when the content often deserves nothing of the sort. Similar comments by the majority on here would be shot down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
It's clear to see the unreasonable, biased muck he often posts when comparing his opinions on the actions of the FAI regarding Baird and McKenna (which I might add are just pure speculation on his part) compared with those of NI and Gibson and Kane (which are clear to see for everyone).
The "pub team" and "shower of bigots" insults I can withstand, since I'm used to that sort of thing from certain quarters.Quote:
Originally Posted by sylvo
But spare me the mock indignation over Maddy McCann. It was a harmless analogy (look it up), with no perjorative content whatever.
Besides, I daresay the McCanns have bigger things to worry about than a fleeting reference on a website that they'll never even read...:(
This thread seems to be turning into a slagging match with more s***e flying around than you'd find on a farmers muck spreader. Everyone get a grip please, the young lads at the centre of all this only want to play football. Wether we all like it or not they do have a choice in this and at the end of the day THEY will choose the best option for themselves and who can blame them, being a footballer is short career and money aside if your ambition is to play at the highest level then International football is going to be one of your aims. Darron Gibson is on the verge of his International competitive debut for HIS country as chosen by him. Tony Kane is would appear is on at the same point for HIS country as chosen by him. That's the way it is and that's the way it ought to be. They decide who they play for and everyone should respect that. Lets just wish both of them all the best and leave it at that.
Now,Now Wembly Green we will have none of that common sense around here young man.:)
Sorry cheifo, forgot where I was there for a minute!
We??Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
You put up with him because you don't have the power to ban him from this site.
I've no doubt that you would ban him if you had the chance.
Don't paint yourself as somebody so tolerant of others views. You clearly are not.
I agree with the sentiments of your post Wembley Green, but it is FIFA, and not the players themselves who decide.Quote:
Originally Posted by WembleyGreen
Ealing Green and others seem to feel that they may not be eligible for the ROI, whereas others feel they are. EG and the others of the same opinion would like a ruling by FIFA on this issue, whereas those of the other opinion feel that no such ruling is needed.
The issue is not only who these players want to play for, but also who they are eligible to play for.
I personally don't think he or anyone else should be banned from these boards. Not unless they are maliciously attempting to sabotage the workings of the forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
I'm more against the endless posts that people feed him when his original points have all been answered. This only encourages more dribble. This is what I meant to refer to above.
Fair enough, that is a decent, rational answer, and you're not as intolerant as I thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
Osarusan, I am aware of the IFA and FAI's different take on the eligibiity communique from FIFA and I have been following the threads etc, but surely even FIFA can see that the rights of a citizen to play for their country goes to the very core of that citizenship. I think the IFA need to back off on this before they do any more damage and risk souring what was an improving situation between the two associations. This carry on is only going to alienate even more of the people the IFA are trying to appeal to with their 'football for all' campaign and it certainly won't encourage youngsters who may be faced with the same choice in future and who's background may be Irish nationalist from joining their (NI) team. Fair enough they are 'losing' potential players to us but that is going to be tha case no matter what, they have to accept that there is a part of the population in NI that simply do not want to play for NI just like there is part who would not want to play for us. You can't force people to play for you and citing technicalities and even making veiled threats like 'points could be deducted' etc like Worthington has been quoted as saying are just pathetic. I can't see what they hope to achieve by this, it's just opening a can of worms and giving the usual suspects a stick to beat each other with!
How many players in the last ten years have actualyy "defected" to the republic.
The one's i can think of off hand are ger crossan, saul deeney, marc wilson, mark mukendi, darren gibson and one other recently whose name escapes me
Hardly what you'd call a drain. It might also be worth pointing out that probably with the exception of marc wilson, who is from lurgan, that the remainder come from strong nationalist communities in belfast or derry. where in the main would have grown up supporting the republic
The other point i'm making is that how many of these, with perhaps the exception of gibson, will actually go on to have full professional and international carrers
The reality is that there will be some that want to play for us in the same way as those born in england and scotland do but the overall majority are still declaring for the north and want to play for them regardless of their backround
Now that's what I call taking the subject off topic. Don't ever criticise me again about going off subject. W*nker!Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Mods, dahamster, you can ban me for that last remark. It'll be f*cking worth it. The rest of you who like to indulge this d*ckhead, you're exactly the same.
Greendeise,Quote:
Originally Posted by greendeiseboy
The reason the numbers have been so low is because it was only comparatively recently, when Kerr took over, that the FAI started proactively to recruit/accept NI-born players, in contravention of the "Gentlemens' Agreement" which had existed previously over decades.
And since most of the obvious players were already tied to NI by having played for our senior team, then they had to concentrate on our youngsters.
And as we know, only a minority of promising youngsters ever progress all the way to senior status, after a process that takes several years.
That said, if we only lost one Darron Gibson every other year, that would amount to four senior players over the course of two Qualifying tournaments, or six over the course of the average player's international career. We have a small enough squad as it is - how would you like it if you suddenly lost even 2 or 3 of your starting XI for Slovakia on Saturday, never mind half your team?
Moreover, the ROI, with generally a bigger/stronger squad than us, will only be interested in the best of our youngsters, leaving us with those who fear they might not be good enough to represent the ROI. What happens if the next player recruited after Gibson is the next David Healy?
On top of which, it is quite clear that the FAI are only targeting youngsters from a Catholic/Nationalist background. Does anyone other than a bigot really want to see a situation where the two Irish sides are effectively segregated between the "Prod team" (IFA) and the "Catholic team" (FAI)? I know that I certainly don't.
Besides, there is a principle at stake, so it shouldn't matter whether we are talking one player or 100 players; if FIFA's Rules are being broken, that situation must not be allowed to continue unchecked.
Well I don't think we'd like it which is why most people would have some sympathy with NI on this issue.Quote:
We have a small enough squad as it is - how would you like it if you suddenly lost even 2 or 3 of your starting XI for Slovakia on Saturday, never mind half your team?
However these are Irish citizens through birth we are talking about. The same as someone born in Cork, Dublin or Donegal. They should have the right to choose. Some may opt for ROI but I imagine most would just stick with NI. They should however be given the right to choice and it seems they have.
Well we are all football fans but some things are more important than football and an individual's right to assert his nationality through his birthright and for there to be no impedements in place to representing his country is certainly one of those things.Quote:
if FIFA's Rules are being broken, that situation must not be allowed to continue unchecked.
I understand your point of view EG but if they are eligible and willing to play for the Republic it really isn't of any concern for us what happens to the NI national team. I genuinely wish the NI team well but it's the Republic I want to see winning matches and if that means at the expense of NI so be it.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Tony Kane wrote a letter to the FAI asking to play for Ireland.(before defecting)Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Darron Gibson was never approached by the FAI, he approached them as did Marc Wilson,Ruairi Harkin, Kevin Deery etc..
I presume those choosing to represent Ireland from a Nationalist background do so because they have grown up supporting Ireland, and see it as being a very natural ambition to represent your country.
Nothing startling in that !
I don't know what you are going on about all this 'Catholic team' rubbish, race, colour or creed has never been an issue for our team.
If players from the south were eligible to play for the north and wanted to play for NI and were good enough. Would the IFA turn them down????
Lads, summer's over and the season has started, time to bin this pointless thread.
[QUOTE=EalingGreen;765365]Greendeise,
On top of which, it is quite clear that the FAI are only targeting youngsters from a Catholic/Nationalist background. Does anyone other than a bigot really want to see a situation where the two Irish sides are effectively segregated between the "Prod team" (IFA) and the "Catholic team" (FAI)? I know that I certainly don't.
I dont think the FAI are setting out to have a catholic/nationalist only team but imo it is fair to say that in general if they were targetting northern ireland players then given the "situation" there it would be those from a nationalist background that they would chase.
I dont think religion or race ever came into selection for us, most of us down here would not know or question the religion of people in any walk of life (there's always exceptions tho), but down here religion is not an issue. We've had plenty of C of I and C of E playing for us but who they are i couldn't tell because its not an issue.
Agree its nothing to do with religion-its whether you think you are Irish. Gibson does (is) so why would he want to play for the GSTQ brigade?
I agree that some (most, actually) things are more important than football, including questions of nationality, birthright etc. But I prefer to apply that conclusion differently to you. In other words, football is less important than politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maroon 7
That is, Gibson's playing football for NI need not compromise his "Irishness" any more than that of e.g. Chris Baird is compromised. (Or the "Britishness" of Andrew Trimble is compromised by his playing rugby for Ireland at the weekend, for that matter). Which is why players like Baird are perfectly welcome to represent NI, whilst still being 100% Irish, with attendant Irish Passport etc.
And if you take your conclusion to its logical limit, you are effectively saying that those individuals who feel strongly about politics etc, should be allowed a choice as to which country they represent at football, whereas those who don't actually care shouldn't really get the same choice. International football isn't actually about choice, or aspirations.
Rather, it's about representing the "country" (as defined by FIFA) in which you were born (or your parents, grandparents). And in the absence of meeting those criteria, even if you can find a country which wants you to represent it, FIFA requires that if you must prove the strength of your eligibility (affiliation) by actually going to live there for a minimum period.
I suppose what I am saying in the end is that there are two teams in Ireland, with mine (NI) being every bit as legitimate, and legitimately "Irish", as yours (ROI). Therefore, if we cannot choose players born in your part of the island (jurisdiction), why should you be allowed to choose players born in ours?
After all, for all this appeal to the "right of choice", no-one ever gave any of us the right to choose where we were born. But if Mr. & Mrs. Gibson were so concerned by this, they always had the option of seeing that young Darron was born in the Republic.
After all, in another sporting context, generations of Yorkshire cricketing fans made the effort*...
* - Until the criteria were changed, so that they didn't need to ;)
Perfectly fair, ifk, and I wouldn't argue with any of it. Especially the part "but if they are eligible"! :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
I agree entirely that the ROI team does not have an issue with race, colour or creed etc, but that was not what I actually posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by co. down green
Rather, with questions of political affiliation and (nominal) religion pretty much inseparable in NI, as you will well know, the inevitable consequence of the FAI only approaching/being approached by youngsters from one community in NI and not the other, will mean that the ROI will de facto become the "Nationalist/Catholic team" in Ireland and NI will become the de facto "Unionist/Protestant" team in Ireland.
And I for one would absolutely hate it if that were so, not least since throughout the dark decades from which we have just emerged, football was one of the few activities in NI which managed to maintain a good degree of inter-communal interaction, no matter how strained it was at times. :(
Players in the north can play for either north or south. Get over it and accept it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Players from "the south" [sic] are not eligible to play for "the north" [sic], so, yes, the IFA would turn them down.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
Have you taken up wumming again?
I must say, I never had you down for a Descartesian - "Je pense, donc je suis" :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by as_i_say
(Besides, you really wouldn't want to be what I think you are...;))
Because they are Irish citizens through birth so should have the right to choose which team they wish to represent just like any other Irish citizen has the right to. I can't spell it out any clearer. You are being wilfully evasive on this. Trying to force people to be what they aren't is what had NI in a state of turmoil for decades.Quote:
Therefore, if we cannot choose players born in your part of the island (jurisdiction), why should you be allowed to choose players born in ours?
Well I'll just take this as an attempt at humour.Quote:
After all, for all this appeal to the "right of choice", no-one ever gave any of us the right to choose where we were born. But if Mr. & Mrs. Gibson were so concerned by this, they always had the option of seeing that young Darron was born in the Republic.
And my point, which seems to be evading you, is that playing football for NI does not make a (Unionist) player any more "British", or a (Nationalist) player - like Gibson - any less "Irish". It merely makes them an NI footballer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maroon 7
As for my last point, it wasn't really "humourous" but then again, it wasn't really serious, either, as my allusion to Yorkshire cricket was intended to show.
Very selective again. There was an IF in that question but its tipical of your ignorance, that rather than answer a question honestly you make a pathetic attempt at humor.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
You, the IFA, the are we a country biggots, the GSDQ singing, union jack waving hypocrits have'nt a leg to stand on trying to snatch Gibson off us and prevent Irish citizens playing with Ireland in the future.
Now I think I speak for a lot of us here when I say get lost if your only going to keep going round in circles:mad:
Didn't the Blackhawks (Hockey) just sign a guy named Tony Kane a few months ago?
agreed. And close the Gibson one while you're at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy
For the record -You don't speak for me and nor, I strongly suspect, do you speak for "a lot of us here". There's an "Ignore" function on your options if someones posts irritate you.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
I never said I spoke for you Lionel Ritchie, I said i think i speak for alot of people on this thread who feel that the thread is going around in cirlcles. If you bothered looking at the other comments of other people asking for an end to this thread you might not of contradicted my fair point!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie