co-efficients arent a byproduct of success, they are a measure of success. complicated, i know, but heres hoping you're englightened by pats actually getting some some dayQuote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Printable View
co-efficients arent a byproduct of success, they are a measure of success. complicated, i know, but heres hoping you're englightened by pats actually getting some some dayQuote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
European competition is an objective way to measure the quality of the league, so I loved it when Derry walloped Gretna who the bookies unbelievably had as favourites. I love it that over four years the eL has shown it's of a higher standard than the swedish league. I welcome every good result as more ammunition to throw at the barstoolers who call the quality of the league sh!te.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
More respect for the league means higher fees for its players, it means more young players either staying longer in or returning to the league, it may mean higher attendances, more media interest, etc etc. In short, my club has already benefited and will do so again.
It's not a love-in, I hope Pats,Derry and Drogs perform well in Europe, but I will join in the howls of abuse if one of ye embarass the league. If one of ye gets walloped 10 - 0 by a team no one has heard of it will undo some of the hard work CCFC has done in Europe.
I'm not objective, I just see more of the bigger picture...
I wouldn't call analysis of how various results in Europe will affect clubs seedings in the future obsessing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
As Pats know even small changes in the coefficient can have a big effect. (Libertas or Odense?)
If ,say, Drogs are the EL's last club in Europe this year and whether they get a draw or not decides whether Pat's are seeded next season I'd say you might take a healthy interest in it.
be realistic, that could never happen!Quote:
Originally Posted by derm
right? :eek:
If Shelbourne had entered Europe this year it might.......;)Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
we have a boutique league and the sooner we concentrate on entertaining our boutique audiance and forget about these irrelevant european follies the better. what do we need, 10-18 copetitive clubs playing out of compact 5-10K modern stadiums on good surfaces with a strong percentage of full time players, tight championships and romantic cup runs - or Scotland II
some day an Irish club will make UEFA or chumps league group stages, they'll get hockeyed but will make so much money that they will dominate the EL for years - wont that be ****ing great
come on Hammarby
yes, some day we'll all enjoy the same fantastic kind of league as kilmarnock and livingston.Quote:
Originally Posted by green-blood
its fairly obvious to see which fans have never seen their club win europe and which have. interesting.
Next time you're there WAR check out the Enoteca Des Arts, on the the Via San Felice. Nice and central, lovely vino and CCFC memorabilia on the wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
Cymro, just for your info the 10-0 comment is a dig at Pats who lost 5-0 home and away to a Moldovan team in the CL about 10 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymro
That's generally seen as the worst it got for EL teams in Europe.
:confused: Unless the Rovers fan you are replying to is under the age of 4 I'd hazard a wild guess that he's seen his team win in europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
The obsessing about coefficients is absolutely ridiculous, purely from a statistical point of view as much as anything else.
As the coefficient is based on a 5 year moving average and if you accept that it simply reflects the comparative level of EL football, then each individual result is pretty much inconsequential in the actual coefficient.
Recent improvements in the average coefficients reflect only the strength of the league, nothing to do with the teams that actually represent us in Europe.
That applies as much to Cork City (and whoever above used the ridiculous phrase "undoing the good work Cork did") as it does to Derry's run last year.
Ergo, if the standards of football in the League continues to improve (and many people believe its dipped this year) then the coefficient will improve.
Its forest for the trees type stuff and quite frankly not something I would expect many of the keyboard warriors/internet junkies on here to grasp ;):p
Wouldn't worry about it. Typical Cork fan who thinks european competitions only started when Cork start winningQuote:
Originally Posted by swano
there is no coefficient for the intertoto anyway.
so we should all be cheering for Hammerby
Don't know who Hammerby are:confused: I'll be cheering for Idrottsförening.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhNoYouDidn't
and typical Cork fan who thinks a 'Kilcoyne our Hero' or a '20 years homeless' banner is hilarious but then has the audacity to be offended when we want to see them lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Solidarity works two ways langers....
Evidence to the contrary please?! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Evidence to the contrary, please?! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by OhNoYouDidn't
So you're saying that the Almighty Co-efficient is just a way of avoiding having to play real teams in Europe as opposed to someone who might give you a game? How is it a mark of progress (especially in the eyes of non-LoI fans) if you beat a string of mickey mouse outfits? Big deal. Sooner or later you're going to come up against an Odense so whether it's in the first round or subsequently makes no odds.Quote:
Originally Posted by paudie
Only positive is that you get more away trips.
Anyway, the Almighty Co-efficient is way too complicated to work out so hence another reason not to get a stiffie over it.
As regards supporting other teams in Europe, I used to go to other clubs' European games a few years ago. Thoroughly enjoyed the sight of a Rovers fan getting furiously worked up roaring FOR Bohs rather than AT them. But the penny dropped for me when Shels played the Maltesers the year after the registration season. Chukinyere Ár Lá.
That's not to say I don't recognise that there's spin-off benefits for everyone else if the LoI teams do well - apart from anything else, it gives credence to the notion that this is a real league with real teams, so it may awaken interest in people to actually go to games.
My ideal scenario would be for Pats to enjoy those benefits without other Irish teams actually winning in Europe to generate them. In other words, as a general fuzzy make-you-feel-all-warm type notion, European progress by Irish clubs is good. But once you get down to specifics, Irish clubs other than Pats making such progress is disastrous.
Doublethink rocks doubleplusgood.
10-0 to the refugees... Forza Zimbru ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub
surely winning more games in europe, even against "mickey mouse" teams is better than losing in the first round regardless of "more away trips" ( and opposition )?!Quote:
So you're saying that the Almighty Co-efficient is just a way of avoiding having to play real teams in Europe as opposed to someone who might give you a game? How is it a mark of progress (especially in the eyes of non-LoI fans) if you beat a string of mickey mouse outfits? Big deal. Sooner or later you're going to come up against an Odense so whether it's in the first round or subsequently makes no odds
That sounds fair from a personal point of view, but surely in the greater scheme of things any team doing well is good for pats, because when they play their domestic games pats realise what level they have to reach? And also by playing these teams with "better" ( not necessarily more ) experience in Europe will benefit pats will have tougher tests and these teams have played teams of a higher standard than the EL. So to break boundaries you first have to push those boundaries out and so on and so forth....Quote:
My ideal scenario would be for Pats to enjoy those benefits without other Irish teams actually winning in Europe to generate them. In other words, as a general fuzzy make-you-feel-all-warm type notion, European progress by Irish clubs is good. But once you get down to specifics, Irish clubs other than Pats making such progress is disastrous.
Can't see how being seeded in the first qualifying round of the UEFA Cup/CL is a way of avoiding "real" teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub
The 2nd qualifying round seems to be full of decent opposition so Drogs have to beat 1 "Mickey mouse" team to play those teams, not a string.
Prize money is also bigger for getting to the second round so it would seem easier to beat a team from San Marino to get this money than to beat a Danish team.
Can't see any advantage to being unseeded.
Surely people understand that other eircom league teams doing well is good for the league?
You've got it the wrong way around. The league doing well gives good results in Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by finnpark
If the teams representing the league do well it is good for everyone. Winning 200-300k in prize money plus tv exposure is good.
If an eL team made say the CL group stages the goodwill might end as would affect other clubs badly.
Of course the coefficient matters..
Getting 100K extra when you draw easier opposition and win is worth it alone!
Also the seeding is not confusing. If anyone gives it 5 mins reading they could work it out.
More money coming into our league and more recognition from non ericom league fans is what a higher seeding brings, ttherefore I think it's very important that we improve our seeding and work hard at keeping it.
THERE ARE NO COEFFICIENT POINTS FOR THE INTERTOTO CUPQuote:
Originally Posted by higgins
Nope but its a way into the UefaQuote:
Originally Posted by OhNoYouDidn't
But then again an extra team in UEFA would be a bad thing for the Coefficients if they do poorly .Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
If they do poorly of course but if they do well its not....all a bit of a gamble really likeQuote:
Originally Posted by Big Ears
[bad pun involving Joe Gamble] true , if us having a 4th team in Europe and they break even with what the coefficient would be if there was only 4 then that would be a big positive for me . The more teams we have in Europe the better(again once they don't do crap) .Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
basically there are three schools of though on this
1: cheer for every irish side out of a sense of patriotism/LoI unity
2: Pragmatic cheering for every Irish side, coeficcients, good publicity etc. More a strategy than a conviction.
3: The club fan as opposed to the league fan. Wont cheer for certain clubs under any circumstance.
Im firmly in the third camp. Whether that be for traditional rivalries like the D7 vermin and wanting them to lose regardless of who they play or clubs like Dundalk and Longford who have treated me and my fellow fans so badly over the years that I want to see them fail. The rest fall between indifference and moderate good wishes.
What Langers cant get their heads around is that they cannot unveil the banners they do and be shocked that we dont wish them well against a side that we have genuine friendship with. As I said earlier, dont give Louis Kilcoyne a job and way back into football and expect solidarity from us.
Im mostly number 2 with a bit of number one thrown in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhNoYouDidn't
I though it was great tbh. Anytime we get to sing 'Kilcoyne is our hero' only adds to a game....
good for you, thats football rivalry. but dont expect us to laugh back, and definitly dont cry like big girls when we cheer on your opposition. because thats rivalry too.Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
No what some of us langers can't get our head around is that fans of Shamrock Rovers would be arsed travelling to Cork on a Saturday night to support a Swedish team when these same fans profess themselves to be only interested in supporting SR and couldn't give a fiddlers about other clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhNoYouDidn't
I wouldn't expect or want solidarity from SR. Personally I couldn't give a damn about other EL clubs.
But listen having said all that if you wanted to pay in to see City play in Europe, (without singing Rovers songs/chants/etc at the game) come down to Cork and have a good night out, etc then I suppose you're more than welcome.