whats to demolish?
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whats to demolish?
not being smart but whats the current capacity? 6k tops? Both ends seem cráp and it would seem logical if ye're build a top notch ground better to start all over.
Is this the same guy who purchased McDowells for Pats last year?
If it is does that not set off alarm bells for Pats fans in terms of lovely roadside access to that site...?
It'd set off more alarms if he bougt McDowells and didn't buy into the club...
Eh, why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
If he just owned the pub how would that affect Pats if he didn't own Richmond Park? Pats have their own access to the main road.
At a glance it looks like a developer buying a pretty large valuable land bank, that happens to include Richmond Park.
Not winding ye up, I really hope it turns out as ye hope cos it looks like the Drogs deal may end in tears and the league doesn't need another one.
Yeah the Drogheda deal was doomed with their underhandedness. Have a google on this guy and see what you make of him. The land at Inchicore is worth sod all in real terms to this guy, and not worth the effort for a minimal return.
I'd be down as cautiously optimistic rather than the cartwheeling Pats fans. The Brian Kerr thing is a huge huge plus
Can I have some of those drugs please. We will own our own pitch when the deal is complete. Not some business man owning it for us. We will have as much money as Kelleher is putting into Pats to do exactly as you want to do. Kelleher bought Pats as he bought all the land around you and has a plan to do something with the site. He could n ot have done that at Dalymount so stop waffling that we turned him down. I don't believe you will get a return out of a LOI club, hence why I would not want an "investor" to own my club, you contradict yourslef.Quote:
Originally Posted by kdjaC
As for your points WWS, investment is good and if its genuine great. I would rather be the ruler of my own destiny though and not have my club as part of a grander scheme of appartments, centres etc and a football stadium. If someone came in and said they would build a 10,000 stadium, a youth academy etc etc so strings attached, no alternatibe agenda great. Kelleher however has plan that Pats are part of, not plans that centre on Pats.
As I said I would rather be in control of our own future, we will have a new stadium, loads of cash and hopefully plans to ensure we stay top of the pile, if we ever get there. :eek:
Could you explain this, please?Quote:
Originally Posted by kdjaC
Quote:
Originally Posted by chippie0001
Chippie who exactly rules the bohs destiny? a very small group of people, who basically present the odd plan to the members and NEVER have any difficulty selling their version of events. By your own admission the Bohs membership is not very proactive and most of the members seem happy to have the whole thing run for them with little dissent/contrary views etc etc. I'd hold fire on statements such as "deal not centred on Pats" until you see the public version of the plans. The developer of the biggest building in the world isnt interested in the paltry margin on 25 mill he can make from a site in Inchicore (25 mill is the cost of THE landmark site in the area - the Kilmainham Hilton), he certainly isnt interested in the negative publicity to be garnered from selling out a community in a public fashion - eh hello? he develops stuff in this town as well - is he gonna irrevocably blot his copybook with the city planners - eh I dont think so!
Judging by the Pr effort I have no doubt this is a genuine opportunity for Pats to move seriously forward.The media dont like to be used.I dont think he would want to blacken his name in the locality or nationally when hes already
got millionsworth of property.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
Would not disagree with that, but that is the members perogative as such. That can change over time and hopefully it will. I would still rather be in the situation above with some chance of change, that looking from the outside in with no chance of change. I hope Kellher does everything he says he will, and I hope its all for the good of Pats and not for his wallet. Can be a cynic but I doubt it. Anything that brings the league up if its on a firm base can only be good for the rest of us.
Dont bother. He's always anti Rovers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Lord
Genuinely hope that this works cos Richmond is a great old LOI ground with character and soul and crucially it has potential.
Would be worried if Kelliher was in on this on his own but with Kerr there it doesnt seem like Pats are being hoodwinked.
Would only listen to Pats fans on this so is there any link or official statement on what the proposed plans for Richmond are? Its not on the official website.
Would I be right in assuming that he plans to buy up the houses on Emmet Road from McDowells down to the apartments?
KOH
To be Honest NY Hoop, only a select few have seen them. My sister in law seen them but has no interest in football at all and trying to get info out of her is harder than explaining the offside rule. We've been told most of them and like I said they're fairly ambitious.
From what I recall the idea is to buy the houses on Emmet Road that back out on to Richmond (Some of which are already purchased) The factories at the Inchicore End have apparently been purchased., and we already own the land on the far side of the Camac, with rights to an access point through the park on Inchicore Road.
The "academy" will be based in the area where the factories are now and will host pool, gym, astro pitches etc. All these will be available to the public. Apartments and shops to be built but can't remember if these are at the Inchicore end or on Emmet Road. The shops/apartments would not be a huge amount and the idea is tht rents received would be a constant revenue stream.
The ground would be developed on four sides. Inchicore end to be developed in tandem with the other facilities. Camac side would see the camac either piped or re-routed slightly and the stand built over this. Kilmainham end (Shed end) would see a small stand built in line with the others. Like I said this is 2nd/3rd hand info
the proposed Shels groundshare was opposed en masse by the membership.Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
Also, a lot of suggestions were made at members meetings with regards to safegaurds against us getting screwed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Thanks for that. Sounds promising but believe it when I see it I suppose. Would Pats fans not be entitled to see the plans or will there be a meeting to explain all?
KOH
I hope that Richmond stays a football ground - after all the other 3 famous grounds are gone or soon will be - but to say that an investor is the only way forward and fans owning a club is crazy is a ridiculous statement.
Without fan ownership, we'd be out of business and Bohs would never have done the deal they've done. Look at Shels and now Drogheda and possibly Pats. That's what Bohs would have been faced with without being a members club.
In one scenario, you have a wealthy, fan-owned Bohs in a new ground, Pats in a re-developed Richmond with a wealthy owner - see the difference? - and a fan-owned Rovers in a municipal ground. That's 3 different models and I know the one I'd prefer, or rather the one I rather not have.
We are going down the European road, Pats are following the British model (ie Pats owner is) and Bohs are doing something relatively new and I think we can discount Shels. Exciting times ahead....hopefully.
KOH
Yes a general meetings took place to talk about the move out of Richmond so would hope there will be a meeting on the bright new future.Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
A nice summary!
Koh
AFAIK the meeting has already been asked for. As the announcement was only Tuesday and GK was in Chicago, its fair enough to give him a bit of time. We'll see whats in the programme tommorow. Also these plans were submitted months ago, long before he actually got involved. A lot may have changed since then...Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
Y'see this is why it's a bad thing. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
Fans in a general sense should never be allowed run a club they dont think with their heads (barca perfect example). If a club is a commercial entity then someone with a good head should run it. If the pats thing works out and tallaght is sorted for Rovers only who would be the next ideal club for someone with a few quid to buy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Lord
Would rovers fans allow some rich dude to pump money into them developing the stadium, academy? Assuming the guy is genuine about Rovers? Is there someone waiting in the wings? ;)
kdjac
When Rovers was last in private hands the club ran up debts of 3 million+, lost ownership of the stadium in Tallaght and was virtually bankrupt. Under the fans' ownership the club pays its bills, is 100% tax-compliant, won promotion last year while also making a profit.Quote:
Originally Posted by kdjaC
There is nothing wrong, and everytghing right, about fans owning their club. Unless, of course, the fans are idiots.:cool:
Ireland is the perfect reason why fans should own clubs. How many grounds have Pats/Rovers and Shels played in over the years? How many have Bohs used in that same time. As Billy Lord says look at what happened recently to Rovers in private hands and also look even more recently at Shels.
Membership has its flaws no doubt about it, but as other have said I would far prefer it and its drawbacks to having a sugar daddy that to this point has had no interest in football or the league. If a rich Pats fan took over the club thats a whole different matter.
Which, we all know, most are :D
As ever the general rule applies here - if Rovers and Bohs agree on something then it's true. Simple. ;)
KOH
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdjaC
Which is why Bohs members demanded that the playing budget should be secondary to paying debts and establishing a youth acadamy? :rolleyes:
Two wrongs don't make a right, WaR... Simple school logic dictates that
Oh and Bohs fans demanded nothing, you're told what to do by the committee, when was the last time anything was voted down by the membership?
But Rovers cant move forward without major investment, something only a sugar daddy can bring. Rovers when they get tallaght would be the only possible EL team could make a profit but only with some investment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Lord
Chippie is correct about ireland being the only place where a club could "survive" with fan ownership but in Rovers case if was fans actually going to the club from 90ish onwards that kept them surviving now the same fans own the club.
Question still stands would Rovers fans turn down a sugar daddy who was a Rovers fan?
kdjac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Just to show you are not 100% right, we voted down membership increases about 3 years back, that were proposed by the board. See we can oppose things when it suits us. :p
The membership also opposed the Shels groundshare which is probablu or more significance and most of the changes to our structure and rules have been brought about my ordinary members and not the board. On the playing side we generally sit back and take it.
Jaysus, you've bought into this big time. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by kdjaC
To answer your question - it would be up to the members to decide (will Pats fans get a say in their club?) but after the debacles under private ownership in the past, including under so-called Rovers fans, I'd imagine it would be a resounding no.
The fan-owned model operates successfully all over Europe, no reason why not here. In fact fan-owned clubs don't lose football grounds or go out of business. Clubs owned by suggar daddies, on the other hand, become homeless and go bust all the time.
I suggest you buy the Guardian on Wednesdays and read David Conn's stuff or else just carry-on cheerleading for 'Pats fan' Kelleher's property play. Whichever suits.
KOH
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdjaC
they're 50% owned by a sugar daddy already - or certainly were when they took over from the last regime. I'd urge people just to take a step back and wait and see what the pats owner delivers - he'll be judged on that - all the above in this thread is nonsense speculation and cringe inducing scaremongering.
Apologies Chippie.
Excluding Bohemian Bob's Farrelly Out Petition! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by chippie0001
Bought into what?Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
We either get new ground or dont atm we have a hole of a ground and possible move to tallaght,so we really have nothing to lose. Its whats called win win, i dont like the idea of moving to talllght but it will always remain a possibility until theres a new ground in richmond.
We still playing good football and get revenue from a pub, have our house in order and manager playing to a budget. Its not us buying into it its others being sceptical due their own previous issues.
kdjac
Look at the sat map ...
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&z=17...08186&t=k&om=1
He now has supposedly has the ground, McDowells, some houses on emmet road and the warehouse directly to the west.
If he has also snapped alot of the old houses along the Inchicore Road to the North and can get the rest and get access through these or the through the park to the west then he controls a huge bowl shaped piece of land where he can build quite a few high story blocks of apts with the stadium and training facilities in there somewhere too. I wouldnt be surprised if the stadium ended up say rotated by 90 degrees even or who knows what.
The only minor problem with the site is the Camac but that could be rerouted easily enough and probably turned into a feature through the middle of the apts.
I was initially taken in by the "social conscience" stuff but the more I think about it, the more and more it looks like Kelleher will make good money on it, and fair play to him, Ive no problem with that, he makes money, new stadium for Pats, everyone a winner ... , I wonder though would he be willing at the end of it all to sign the stadium over a fans trust or the O'Callaghans. Doubt it!
But in the long term I think Bohs should have more money to burn each year on players than Pats. Cant see Kelleher throwing in a million or two every year to allow Pats to keep up with Bohs.
bhs
ps. btw wws "they're 50% owned by a sugar daddy already" Ray Wilson coughed up ~250K to help save Rovers, his shareholding is continously being diluted as more monthly members subscriptions roll in. He didnt do to make or profit or even get his more back and has said that once he is happy that the club is on a sound footing, he'll hand any whatever % remains back to the members club, so Rovers will be 100% owned by the members in the end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackholesun
fair play to him, i applaud any and every investment in irish soccer as oppossed to sunderland. whats his holding now as a matter of interest ?
Details were furnished at our AGM. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
KOH
so what your saying is, ask Dr Hoopdub ?Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackholesun
Personally i would rather we kept up signing promising LSL players and local lads coming tru the academy than buying success. Atm we have 7 from either Crumlin Belgrove Cherry orchard or in house. To me i would rather see the come good than buy whats left of Drogs next season.
kdjac
You can, if he hasn't drowned in a sea of magnolia paint!Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny
Koh