Emelka Onwubiko

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23/02/2007, 2:11 PM
NeilMcD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reddladd

J

If you are offended by my opinion you could choose to ignore it.

!

I dont think ignoring opinions that offend oneself are the way forward. Opinions that are offensive should be challenged etc not ignore. My opinion was that your comment was disgraceful and I stand by that. Do you have a right to post on this forum and give this view, of course you do but up to a point that it becomes clearly racist and then I am sure the mods or the gardai could be brought into it as freedom of speech is not universal and there are restrictions. I dont know if you are a racist but I think your comments were disgraceful but I also think reaction was over the top. This was not helped by a clear WUM in LimtilIdie. You have given a reaction to other peoples reaction to your comments but I think it may be helpful if you justified your initial comment to maybe give some reason or background to why you think this.
23/02/2007, 2:16 PM
Lim till i die

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

This was not helped by a clear WUM in LimtilIdie.

Oh Dear :rolleyes:

Want to go have a look at the previous page where osarusan and jebus managed to decipher the deep and hidden meaning behind my posts?? :rolleyes:
23/02/2007, 2:19 PM
Jamjar

On a lighter note......

2 black lads walk into a bar................
This joke has been interupted on behalf of all right thinking citizens, please move towards the main forum whilst we isolate this problem, thank you for your cooperation.
23/02/2007, 2:35 PM
eirebhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lim till i die

The comment Eirebhoy (Indeed :rolleyes: ) refers to was of course a joke about some of the ahem, shady accounting practises at some Eircom League clubs down through the years.

ok, apologies. Jamjar, do you seriously not think my interpretation of the joke is racist? Stop with this political correctness gone mad rubbish.
23/02/2007, 2:39 PM
Nailer77

This one caught fire nice and quick. And redladd your opinions they may be and you're entitled to post them but don't expect people to just ignore them. Whatever way you try to dress it up now its clear that being Irish to you does not involve being born in this country and is more about were your parents come from or maybe something else. Whether you like it or not thats the way this country's going and I'd suggest you'll have to get used to our national side being represented by African/Irish, Polish/Irish, Romanian/Irish etc, and its no different to being represented by the likes of Townsend, Cascarino, Morrison or McAteer, in fact I'd suggest someone born and raised in the country has every right to call themselves Irish despite colour or creed.
23/02/2007, 2:44 PM
BohsPartisan

LTID is not being racist but I feel he is making a mistake in feeling he needs to defend Redladd. Redladd has the right to make a racist comment just as we have the right to tell him to go _______ himself. Redladds post was not deleted or binned so no one was taking away that right.
23/02/2007, 2:48 PM
ifk101

Anyways....

I think we'll find in the years to come that a lot of Irish-born players with an immigrant background will not declare for us.
23/02/2007, 2:48 PM
osarusan

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

LTID is not being racist but I feel he is making a mistake in feeling he needs to defend Redladd. Redladd has the right to make a racist comment just as we have the right to tell him to go _______ himself. Redladds post was not deleted or binned so no one was taking away that right.

No, but the idea of a deletion / binning was been mooted. This was what LTID objected to.

He not defending Redladd, just freedom of speech, no matter how unpopular, and in this case, wrong.
23/02/2007, 2:53 PM
Jamjar

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

Anyways....

I think we'll find in the years to come that a lot of Irish-born players with an immigrant background will not declare for us.

What would make you come to that conclusion.
23/02/2007, 2:59 PM
lopez

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Whats wrong with my comment then.

I see what you mean. Bad posting on my behalf. I meant the post by Rossi as much a disgraceful comment as Reddladd's, not yours. :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reddladd

...At no point did I insult Emelka Onwubiko personally or refer to his colour, though many of you imply that I did...

Oh come on. What exactly were you trying to say about a team of 'Nigerians'. If they were Ghanaians, would they be better? Even if they were fine role models for both black and white? I don't know many white Nigerians (mixed race another thing), do you?

I'd describe your statement as racist - because it clearly is that - but I wouldn't demonise people who show concern for immigration. There are numerous good reasons to question immigration - just as there are good reasons for it. Trouble is you've gone in with boots flying without arguing the rights and wrongs.

BTW, lads. Could we stop the sh*te about the Garda being dragged in. No one's advocated racial hatred and I'm sure the Garda have better things to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nailer77

...Whatever way you try to dress it up now its clear that being Irish to you does not involve being born in this country and is more about were your parents come from or maybe something else...

I think the players (of foreign ancestry) may also think of themselves as foreign. I remember an article in the Sunday Times about the Italian community (along with the Chinese, only one of note in Ireland back then) supporting Italy against Ireland in the 1994 WC.

I wouldn't want to get caught up with this team of the future. What is more important is learning the mistakes of Britain, France and Holland regarding immigration and multi-culturalism.

What's also clear is, close the gates to the rest of the world tommorow and I guarantee in a century, there'd be no black people, just the Irish would have got slightly more tanned.
23/02/2007, 3:00 PM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

Anyways....

I think we'll find in the years to come that a lot of Irish-born players with an immigrant background will not declare for us.

Fecking rascists!!!
23/02/2007, 3:00 PM
ifk101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamjar

What would make you come to that conclusion.

It is quite common that players with an immigrant background chose to play with their parents/ grandparents country of birth.
23/02/2007, 3:01 PM
lopez

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamjar

What would make you come to that conclusion.

The same thing that makes me, and many other 'plastics', plenty who post on this forum, do not feel any affiliation with the country of our birth.
23/02/2007, 3:02 PM
eirebhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reddladd

At no point did I insult Emelka Onwubiko personally or refer to his colour, though many of you imply that I did. I responded to a post about the likelihood of having an Irish international team of players whose parents are from countries other than Ireland.

Can I just ask what reason you think Onwubiko wants to play for Ireland and not Nigeria?
23/02/2007, 3:09 PM
Nailer77

Quote:

Originally Posted by lopez

I I think the players (of foreign ancestry) may also think of themselves as foreign. I remember an article in the Sunday Times about the Italian community (along with the Chinese, only one of note in Ireland back then) supporting Italy against Ireland in the 1994 WC.

I wouldn't want to get caught up with this team of the future. What is more important is learning the mistakes of Britain, France and Holland regarding immigration and multi-culturalism.

What's also clear is, close the gates to the rest of the world tommorow and I guarantee in a century, there'd be no black people, just the Irish would have got slightly more tanned.

Some might, most probably wouldn't though an article in the Times from 1994 is hardly hard evidence, the countries changed a lot since then. Uts an irrelevant point anyway, someone born and raised in this country is Irish until they choose otherwise.
23/02/2007, 3:26 PM
Metrostars

Reddladd has the right to express his views as he has. But we also have the right to question them. In my view his comments are racist. If the lad was a white kid with the last name of Murphy, Kelly or O'Brien but his parents happen to be from Boston, I doubt he would have made the same comments as he did about Onwubiko.
23/02/2007, 3:31 PM
lopez

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nailer77

Some might, most probably wouldn't though an article in the Times from 1994 is hardly hard evidence, the countries changed a lot since then.

Its evidence that certain people's identity is never necessarily with their country of birth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nailer77

Uts an irrelevant point anyway, someone born and raised in this country is Irish until they choose otherwise.

You obviously missed the referendum of December 2004.
23/02/2007, 3:34 PM
osarusan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metrostars

Reddladd has the right to express his views as he has. But we also have the right to question them. In my view his comments are racist. If the lad was a white kid with the last name of Murphy, Kelly or O'Brien but his parents happen to be from Boston, I doubt he would have made the same comments as he did about Onwubiko.

No, he would have said this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reddladd

If the day arrives in 10-15 years that we have 11 Emelha Murphys, Kellys, or O'Briens playing for Ireland then that's the day that I stop going to Ireland internationals.
23/02/2007, 3:43 PM
Nailer77

Quote:

Originally Posted by lopez

Its evidence that certain people's identity is never necessarily with their country of birth.

Which is why I said 'some might'. And regardless of a referendum I said people born and raised in this country will likely consider themselves Irish and rightly so and as such can represent our national side without feeling like a foreigner, they certainly have as much right to do so as someone who had a granny from Mayo.

So no its not evidence and its less valued when you consider its 13 years old and that since 94 the country has changed beyond belief.
23/02/2007, 3:46 PM
Lim till i die

He must be good

His threads already way bigger than the David Connolly one :D
23/02/2007, 3:49 PM
passinginterest

FAI Hold Open Consultation on Intercultural Football Strategy - This just appeared on the football feeds from the FAI site.
Good timing or what!?
23/02/2007, 3:50 PM
Nailer77

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lim till i die

His threads already way bigger than the David Connolly one :D

I hope you're not sayin its bigger cos he's black!!!! cos thats Racialist innit!
23/02/2007, 4:42 PM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raheny Red

I can understand where you're coming from, however, that comes across as pretty racist. I won't be attending another Irish game until the full squad is completely Irish men who I feel represent me!

What are you trying to say here? it looks to be just as ignorant as Reddladd's post or is it just a poorly expresssed football statement?
23/02/2007, 5:43 PM
Jamjar

In answer to the original question....

no...
23/02/2007, 7:55 PM
Lionel Ritchie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reddladd

There also appears to be a lot of you who know me quite well considering your well chosen words. I am a member of a right wing political party and I�m a �scanger� to quote one intelligent contributor.

Sorry for going OT but I'm intrigued. Care to tell who this "right wing political party" you're a member of is? I'm guessing they're the real deal if you're describing them as such because none of the mainstream right of center parties would describe themselves in such terms.
Let's see now ...Fine Gael (would probably describe themselves as Christian Democrat), Progressive Democrats (Liberal Democrat), Fianna Fail (long before Bertie laughably claimed to be a socialist Brian Lenihan Snr. laughably described FF as a party of "the near left" ....I'm going to lump them under Christian Democrat with FG).

Who does that leave? I'd personally consider RSF to be a right wing party though they seem to think they're leftist. What harm ...sure there's only half a dozen or so of them anyway.

As we're now grabbing tufts of the lunatic fringe there's the Nic Mathunas/Justin Barrett nutbars in Youth Defence? There's that crazy auld doll and her Immigration Control Platform and after that I'm guessing we're down to the scangers in burberry over on ********** Ireland -and they only seem to bother with that if they can drag themselves away from cruise-ireland for five minutes ...and anyway these last few are hardly political parties -cults maybe.

So ...do tell.:confused:

BTW ...I haven't a foggiest clue who you are ...should I?
23/02/2007, 9:41 PM
Paddy Garcia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

I'm far happier with this lad playing for Ireland than the likes of Andy Townsend

Absolutely - the last thing we need is the kind of commitment demonstrated by Townsend. I'd much rather have the effort shown against San Marino, Holland and Cyprus, this much better embodies the Irish spirit - as so well displayed by our home grown lads.

I also recall Townsend having plenty of injections, in his toe, to specifically allow him to turn out for us. I did not see a quarter of that commitment recently. Anyone at the Italy game in the Giants stadium will be aware of the outstanding contribution & work load he made that day. And there were many more days like this.

I can't decide which comment is more stupid.

btw good luck to Onwubiko, as far as I'm concerned he is very welcome to represent his country.
23/02/2007, 9:49 PM
Jamjar

And has nobody thought of the nickname crisis we'll have, half these Nigerian names end in 'O' already.
23/02/2007, 11:03 PM
lopez

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nailer77

...So no its not evidence and its less valued when you consider its 13 years old and that since 94 the country has changed beyond belief.

You sound like you weren't born in 94. Irish born Italians supporting their land of their parents not their birth, not evidence of how some people don't consider their birthplace as relevant to identity? :rolleyes:

What's happened in the last 13 years is that there are more than two, three, possibly four large ethnic minority communities in Ireland. Whether these groups offspring feel Irish will have a lot to do on how the Irish treat them, rather than where their mother's waters broke. The fact that the door to citizenship has been redrawn doesn't exactly help. But hey, I'm sure birthplace will remain the key, not those insignificant things like family, culture, and ethnicity.
23/02/2007, 11:09 PM
billybunter

can i have your tickets redladd?
24/02/2007, 2:28 AM
danonion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

I also recall Townsend having plenty of injections, in his toe, to specifically allow him to turn out for us.

Ah, I understand now, they injected him with Irish blood to make him eligible.
24/02/2007, 7:01 AM
Lionel Ritchie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

I also recall Townsend having plenty of injections, in his toe, to specifically allow him to turn out for us. I did not see a quarter of that commitment recently. Anyone at the Italy game in the Giants stadium will be aware of the outstanding contribution & work load he made that day. And there were many more days like this.

Oh to have his like available now.
Tells a fairly horrific story in his book about the agony he was in (toe had gone septic) and Mick Byrne performing a piece of 'Somme Surgery' on it with no more kit than a sowing needle and a cigarette lighter. :eek:
24/02/2007, 9:38 AM
Closed Account 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rossi

id rather a Nigerian born Irishman than a plastic Paddy anyday

That's very nice of you!

You know growing up as 2nd gen Irish in London in the 70s/80s really wasnt a bundle of fun...
24/02/2007, 12:41 PM
livehead1

Quote:

Originally Posted by danonion

Ah, I understand now, they injected him with Irish blood to make him eligible.

This forum gets worse and worse. Where have all the sensible people gone
24/02/2007, 2:34 PM
Condex

Seems like a lot of people on this thread want us to end up like France
ie No French players in the team...
24/02/2007, 2:42 PM
Plastic Paddy

Quote:

Originally Posted by livehead1

This forum gets worse and worse. Where have all the sensible people gone

We disappeared when it became obvious that the lunatics were gaining control of the asylum. :(

:ball: PP
24/02/2007, 2:43 PM
eirebhoy

Condex - Why do you think Makelele, Zidane, Thuram, Vieira, etc. decided to play for France? Why do you think Onwubiko wants to play for Ireland? I'm Intrigued. :)

We've had the days where half our team wasn't Irish. Ireland would not have been their 1st choice. This is different.
24/02/2007, 2:56 PM
Condex

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Condex - Why do you think Makelele, Zidane, Thuram, Vieira, etc. decided to play for France? Why do you think Onwubiko wants to play for Ireland? I'm Intrigued. :)

We've had the days where half our team wasn't Irish. Ireland would not have been their 1st choice. This is different.

At least the players who played for Ireland in the past
born here or not had Irish ancestry...

Whats the point in supporting a team thats not Irish, I thought
that was the point of a national team..
24/02/2007, 2:59 PM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Condex

Seems like a lot of people on this thread want us to end up like France
ie No French players in the team...

Can't believe it took you this long to come into it.
24/02/2007, 3:04 PM
Condex

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Can't believe it took you this long to come into it.

Don't really post that much here anymore, its a bit too liberal/leftie for my taste.. I've taken to posting on the BNP website instead..:D
24/02/2007, 3:11 PM
Poor Student

Condex, trust you to show up when such matters arise. Luckily very few people here share your anachronistic sense of primordial nationialism.

The only regret I have about this young lad is that he seems to be joining the exodus of lads leaving this country too young and never coming into the LOI fold.

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