pretty much what I've said over 40 illogical postings.Quote:
Originally Posted by JC_GUFC
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pretty much what I've said over 40 illogical postings.Quote:
Originally Posted by JC_GUFC
I can't believe that nobody has mentioned how Irish schoolboy football is raped by English clubs every year.
93%* of Irish players who sign for English clubs at 16 or 17 don't make the grade and return home. The English clubs just take everybody with an iota of talent because they're scared sh1tless of missing "the next Roy Keane"
It makes me sick that these kids are told that the world is their oyster at 16 by clubs who know that within 3 years 9 out of 10 of them will be on the boat home.
In a huge amount of cases it's the fact that they are away from home that hinders their progress. The two best Irish players of all time, Keane and McGrath, both played Senior football here first, that's no coincidence. Doyle is showing that now.
Tell me any other nationality that this happens to with English clubs. It's disgusting.
*stats are from about 5 years ago when Eoin Hand took up his job in the FAI overlooking Irish players in England and facilitating them when they inevitable return.
Much as it'd be nice to see it's hard to see transfer fees of over a million for Eircom League players. Taking into account the fact that many of them are on contracts of only two years and wages are small and always will be small compared to English league. Transfer fees get inflated due to players being on long term, fairly big money contracts. Doyle has just signed a new 4year contract at Reading with a big wage increase, this is what pushes his value from 5million to 8million. The Eircom League dosen't generate the revenue to sustain big wages and contracts. Personally I'd say half a million to 750000 is about the highest fee any Irish team will get for their best players, and money like that would make good economic sense for the league.
Is this not the same for English players at English clubs, I'm not sure Irish schoolboys are much less likely to make it than English schoolboys. Do agree though that we should look to keep these players in the League until 20. This is a slight problem for us but a much bigger one for countries like the Ivory Coast.Quote:
Originally Posted by charliesboots
No it's not, its one of the principal reasons our league is not developing as it should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by cavan_fan
How can it develop when the vast majority of our best young players are not available to our clubs. By the time they return home at 18/19 most are disillusioned by football and the broken dream it has become due to the lies and false promises made to them by English clubs.
When they come home then at 19 they have poor english education so can't get a decent job. At least if they stayed home they'd have got their Leaving Cert so could go into 3rd level education...Quote:
Originally Posted by charliesboots
--:D--Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
the reason players go to UK clubs for low prices is not racism.
the defination of somethings (someones) value is the amount that a willing purchaser is willing to pay to a willing seller.
our league, rightly or wrongly (the latter IMO), is viewed - or at least has been viewed up untill now - as on a par with english league one or below. therefore clubs are only willing to pay fees of about £100k for players. look at the transfer fees that premiership clubs pay to lge1, 2 or conference clubs and it is not a million miles away from what they pay for eL players. i know that there will be some exceptions but most are about the £100k mark.
IMO the standard of the eL is higher than the english lge 1 from a football perspective but we are (unfortunately) on a similar footing when you look at facilities, wages, length of contracts ... etc.
when a player is signed on a weak contract - ie low wages for a relatively short period - it is obviously going to be easier to sign him for a cheaper than market value fee than if he is secured on a longer term high paying contract.
in fact you even see english teams selling their own players for reduced fees when they are in the last year of their contract if they think the player will not re-sign as they risk him going for free later on. most players in the eL are signed on 1-2 year contracts and there is not a strong transfer market between eL clubs so it is unreasonable to expect foreign clubs to pay vastly greater sums than that paid by the eL clubs themselves, from a business perspective why would they - they will obviously think (and rightly so in most cases) that the player would like to come, the club could do with the money and there is no-one bidding a greater sum of money than me.
it is akin to going to an auction for a house and you are the only bidder, the guide price may be €1 million, you have much more than €1 million but you are the only person in the hall apart from the seller and the auctioneer. you happen to know that the seller is not very well off and needs to sell the house so you just bid €100,000 - and you probably get it.
as a patriotic irish man i believe the above is a reasonable arguement and doesn't make me an uncle tom!
I mentioned this in the Byrne thread but if he goes on to score 20 goals next season then EL clubs can demand a lot more for their players. Put it this way, if Leroy Lita is worth £1m after 24 goals in league 1 then an Irish player of a similar age would be worth the same with a similar goalscoring rate. It all depends on Byrne succeeding though. Byrne is almost 29 though so I think €300k would be a fantastic fee for him atm.
I think system that facilitated players staying in Ireland until they were 21 would be great. I think then if they had the talent and foreign clubs were prepared to pay the money they good go and at least they would have a Leaving Cert behind them and experience of playing for successful clubs who are playing in Europe season after seaon. They would also be more mature when they go abroad. I think if a system like this could be developed it woudl be good for all concerned.
One option for this is is for eL clubs to have feeder deals with English/Scottish/Other?? sides. The main reason as stated before that English clubs hoover up young Irish players is that they (like everyone else) have no idea who the succesful 5% will be. If e.g. Tottenham had a deal where for for e.g 250,000 euro a year they had first call on any players from a given club they might be happier to have them stay in Ireland?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
spot on here Neil. it would also mean if things didn't work out with the club they go over to then they know they can come back to the eL and carry on. even if they go over at 19/20 it would be ok. at least then the clubs are looking at them on the basis of 'are they going to break into the first team?' as opposed to at 15 when they are amassing scores of lads with the hope of 1 or 2 of them making their first team.
unlike all the young lads who come back at 18/19 and feel that they are failures and opt out of the game altogether these lads would have a grounding in the eL and be able to pick up where they left off.
not an eL club, but Man City had a deal with Cherry Orchard, I don't know if it's still going thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by cavan_fan
I think Shels had a deal with United a while ago too
Odd that I find the remarks of people claiming that English clubs are racist to Irish clubs to be quite racist themselves :)
thats racistQuote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Any centrally run scheme to keep U21 players in this country should have requirement that they finish their Leaving Cert & continue some form of 3rd level education.
Apparently Arsenal won't take anyone other than a white Anglo-Saxon born within the sound of Bow Bells.
Home Farm Everton too.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
The sooner Reading sell him the better. I'd approve of 5m now instead of waiting for more later on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
The better for doyle or reading? do you think kevin has shown all he can do and that villa would be the next step up the ladder? both managers are excellent harnessers of talent so no complaints either way club wise, but you seem to be suggesting that doyle is having a michael rickettsesque season and should be cashed in on?? a worrying opinion if so
Kingdom - Pete's opinion is CCFC related. They have a 10% sell on clause so Pete would rather if cork got the 500,000 grand now rather than having to wait until a few more years and get maybe 800,000 or who knows if he lets his contract run out Cork may get nothing or only a fraction of 500,000. A serious injury or loss of form would have the same result.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdom hoop
ah, i see. apologies for the ignorance of interests, i was thinking his post was a little odd alright, i'll try to look deeper in future. disaster then if he does a matt le tisssier!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
I was wondering if there was a sell on clause for Doyle. I'm glad they at least got 10% put in to the sale of Doyle. If he does go for 5/6 million that's 500/600 thousand sterling for Cork. Now that has to look like a serious good bit of business in the long run.
As i said already all part of the master investment plan to get value down the line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy
Reading won't sell him until they get relegated so looks like will have to wait another 18 months for that cash. :cool:
Did anyone see how serious it was.
That's because he is. He's from Tipperary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy
Hamstring injury for Doyle apparently
Shanes a Long way from Tipperary :D
Hamstring allright.Looks like it could be three to four weeks. Shame.Stokes may get his game after all.
Yeah Readings amazing scouts spotted him* at one of City's u21 games and were willing to pay 40k for him............Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy
*unfortunately their scout was also our manager
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...ng/6261115.stm
Reading star Doyle faces lay-off
Doyle's goals have helped Reading move into the top half of the table
Reading striker Kevin Doyle will have a scan on a hamstring injury to determine how long he will be out, but boss Steve Coppell is looking on the bright side.
"We have no real history of him being injured so we don't know how his body recovers. We don't think it will be too long, but at this stage we don't know.
"It's in the meat of the muscle so I think it'll be a good couple of weeks," he said after the 1-1 draw at Everton.
Doyle, 23, who has scored 10 goals this season, was injured after 38 minutes.
The Irishman is equal third in the Premiership scoring charts, with Arsenal's Robin van Persie and Yakubu of Middlesbrough, and the trio are behind Didier Drogba and Cristiano Ronaldo.
Chelsea striker Drogba has hit the back of the net 14 times in the league this term, while Ronaldo is on 13 goals.
Goalkeeper Marcus Hahnemann added: "Kevin is a big part of our team so hopefully we can get him back soon."
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Seems like all our top players are going down like flies at the moment. Luckily it's only San Marino who are next up.
I agree that a system such as this would be favourable. A huge problem however is our membership of the EU and the free movement of labour between states once citizens satisfy the minimum working age.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
Sweden had set up a similar system where players under the age of 18 are not allowed to leave the country to work. That went out the window when they joined the EU in 1995. I think Norway (not EU members) may still operate a similar system though.
i know it's old hat but isn't it great to have an irish lad doing so well in the premier$hip in his first year. 10 goals at this stage is unreal. i remember all the talk about elliot when sunderland went up and he had a nightmare season being injured for most of it and sunderland being useless. hopefully doyle recovers quickly espically for ireland's sake!!Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Still think Elliott looked really good when he wasn't injured last year, as in the only Sunderland player capable of doing anything. In Elliott's case 'Nightmare' should only be injury related, at least its not a Jon Stead or Kevin Kyle type nightmare, as in they clearly don't have it. The only good thing thats going to come out of this injury is hopefully Shane Long will get a bit more than just the cameo sub appearances(or being thrown into the Lion's den with a start against Arsenal) If he gets a run of starts and scores a few we're laughing, his talent looks undoubted. His competition is Lita(who I don't rate at all) and Kitson so here's hoping...
i did mean nightmare as in injury/lack of appearences nightmare. and then when he was fit they were so fooked that team morale ...etc was non existant.
hopefully shane long will get a run - altho i think lita and kitson were coppell's first choice at start of last season before doyle made his impact.
you can add jon macken to that list of yours republic!
not too sure about long just yet. he looks light in stature and doesnt seem to have searing pace or distinguishing technical ability to compensate against the aggresive premiership defences. there is definitely talent but from seeing him a few times he could do with bulking up. interestingly he probably will start a few games now though cos i dont think kitson is quite fit yet...every cloud has a silver lining, but then again..unfortunately for cork city very unlikely doyler will be sold now, sorry pete!
You obviously haven't seen too much of him. He's lightning quick for a start and seems to me to be fairly strong. His pace is his greatest asset. Have a look at the reading fans forum (hob nob). They'll agree 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdom hoop
Considering he's just turned 19, he looks pretty beasty enough already... His finishing is quality, he scored two hat tricks in a row in the reserves against Chelsea and Arsenal I think, if your only just 19 and absolutely taking the mickey in reserves, I think thats a very good sign. Both his goals in the first team this year were extremely well taken as well. He just needs some solid game time first to properly get used to life in the Premiership. Coppell said that when he arrived over first, that he was one of the most naturally talented sportsmen he'd ever seen, the hurling will pay testament to that. Cheers Galway, Jon Macken was probably the best example I could have found!
Doyle will be out for a maximum of 4 weeks, apparently.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...ng/6261115.stm
According to the (English) Independent it could happen: http://sport.independent.co.uk/footb...cle3298434.ece
8 million sounds about right for Doyle, and it would be hard for Reading to turn down that kind of money, but would he stay in the team when Drogba returns from the African Cup of Nations? Would he just become the next Scott Parker or Scott Sinclair?
morechance of him joining boro, sunderland or maybe everton, wouldnt see him have a lot of chances in the chelsea team end up astiff like sidwell which would be a disaster for ireland