The best money can buy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy
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The best money can buy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy
The most depressing thing about all of this is the 65% of people according to opinion polls that think he should stay on. We get the politicians we deserve and maybe we do deserve this idiot! Christ I really was hoping this would be the end of the Bertie (Please everyone and tell what they want to hear) Politics. Looks like he'll survive this and possibly get a few extra votes for the tearjerker performance on the telly. Depressing.
I love the way Bertie friends in cabinet are coming out with the "I wouldn't take the money myself..but i have never been in such a poor personal state so I can't judge..."
He was earning big money when he took those gifts. I don't believe the poor-mouth excuses. :rolleyes:
Its clear the government strategy (both FF & PD) will be to try & push this under the carpet tomorrow but I can't see the media or opposition letting it go. I think the focus has shifted from the 50k gift/loan as opposition seen to be harsh to be attacking him on matter occured during marraige breakup. I think the media will still be looking for answers on:
- if he had no bank account where was he putting his savings?
- admission he oppointed people to state boards because they friends
- why he felt it ok to accept cash in Manchester & not see as donation. eas this a regular occurence?
I think these are probably the three weakest points of attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
- Who cares what type of bank accounts he used.
- The media can & will attack him here but not the opposition because they've done the same.
- It's obviously not a regular occurance as he owned up to it himself as the only other money he's received that he can't properly account for.
If I was in the opposition I would be searching for a tax law or precendent that could get him in trouble. Failing that, an ethics code or law. People aren't going to turn against Bertie en masse because he used a joint bank account but if he has a piece if illegality pinned on him he'll have to go.
Are you suggesting its ok to mix personal, party & policital donations, gifts and loans in the one bank account? Maybe he was writting cheques for personal use out of his campaign account? Adding the fact he apparently has no records for 5 years at that time seems fishy to me...Quote:
Originally Posted by Student Mullet
And maybe he's the flying spaghetti monster. We have no evidance of either.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
If the opposition can pin onto him a wrongdoing like the one you suggest then they'll have done their job. If Pat Rabbitt again finds it amazing that the Minister of Finance didn't have a personal bank account he'll just have generated more hot air.
Student Mullet, he did do wrong - taking the money off business men while Minister of Finance is morally wrong. The sums have to be put in the context of the time, and they were huge amounts of money. Chosing to hide behind Miriam's apron strings at every given opportunity (even at the ladies bogball final on Sunday) shows the real character of the "man" and what kind of act he really put on on 6 one.
rebs23 - we have the least sophisticated electorate in Europe. Nothing would surprise me when it comes to the Irish electorate anymore.
What about the trail of Bolognaise sauce that he leaves after him everywhere he goes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Student Mullet
OK, that's a fair opinion for you to hold but I don't agree with you. I'll turn against Bertie if he's broken a law, all I see against him at the moment is innuendo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Pleased to see morals and ethics still held in such high regard by voters!Quote:
Originally Posted by Student Mullet
Glad to hear it but you're making a judgement of me there Macy which I don't apreciate. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean that I have no sence of morality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
My morals include the concept of 'innocent untill proven guilty'. I've seen all the different charges laid against him and I don't see that he has acted immoraly or unethically.
I have to back Macy on this one Student Mullet, I took your statement in exactly the same way he did. But let's not beat around the bush: if it's proven that he did take the money, even if it wasn't actually against the law, do you think that's ok?
adam
BTW, I have to say that the mutterings coming from the opposition on this are sickening. It's make anything think they didn't want an investigation for some reason...
I don't see the need for proof since he's admitted to receiving the money. And yes, I think it was OK to take it.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
In the end i suppose bad morals will not be a hanging offence for Bertie although breaking a law will almost certainly.
I don't understand the whole Manchester thing anyway. We know he accepted the money. I think we know no actual law against it? We can probably agree poor morals to accept a gift from business people for personal use when Minister for Finance.
We are all biased anyway & have already made our minds up.
"I didn't have a bank account." --Bertie Ahern, while Minister for Finance
ROFL
Unbelievable - Let the election beginQuote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
No tax payable on donationsQuote:
“As I survey the events of the last two weeks, I realise that my judgment in accepting help from good and loyal friends and the gift in Manchester (albeit in the context of personal and family circumstances) was an error. It was a misjudgment, although not in breach of any law or code of conduct at the time.”
Ahern clearly an inept Minister for Finance if no tax was payable on gifts and loans when he was in charge. Maybe its just me but I find it amazing that Bertie can be paid under the cover of a loan/gift for pesonal work in Manchester. Sure every politicians will use this excuse for bribes (i am not suggesting Ahern was bribed) they received. "Ah sure t'was only a gift..."
:rolleyes:
Wonder where he cashed his cheques...
Kennedys? How many pints of Bass did he get per cheque? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
If anyone believes Bertie Ahern did not have a bank account when this was taking place then they deserve to be locked up as insane.
Bertie has been found out and no doubt more info will leak out week after week. If he didnt have a bank account how exactly was he receiving his minister of finance wages??? id imagine they dont write out many checks.
Christ the man should resign and stop embarassing himself
Vincent Brown made an interesting observation last night. The time Bertie saved this £50,000, which he paid into the bank account (once he opened his own account) in various smaller amounts, is exactly the time that the tribunal is investigating alledged payments to him by developers. Obviously just a coincidence.
On Berties's performance yesterday, still many many questions remain unanswered, but it's really disgusting that he chose to hide the Manchester payment behind Miriam and the girls as well. The way he keeps bringing them into the public domain now in an attempt to cover up his actions shows the respect he really has for them, or that he has something really significant to hide.
So if a politician had molested a 10 year old during the loophole when it wasn't technically against the law, that would have been fine as they weren't breaking any law.Quote:
Originally Posted by Student Mullet
Even if he broke no law he broke his code of standards as a politician.
Yeah he came clean but how many years later? He more or less admitted that he came clean because he knew it was going to come out soon in the tribunals, then he went on to praise himself from a great height for his honesty. :rolleyes:
I think Berties star has not shone for some time now & while it looks like he will survive it will surely make him weaker for next years election. Hard to know how many votes it will cost FF but surely it will lose them some votes? Then again this is Ireland & we really do get what we deserve.
I am amazed by the number of FF politicians that have said Bertie did nothing wrong but also said they wouldn't accept the money. Surely a contradiction? :confused:
Whooosh......... There's the sound of the whole thing blowing over
Shameful performance by the opposition (And those corruption busters the PDs) during the whole scandal.
The unwillingness to press the issue would almost make a cynic wonder how much the rest have to hide......
I think the opposition don't want to press as they will then be seen to be taking advantage of a family situation. On the other hand as others have said Bertie plays that card at every opportunity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
I was giving him the benefit of the doubt but now i think he actually does have a lot more to hide but cunning enough to cover his tracks & exploit his popularily by the public. I would guess he has received more money otherwise we are assuming he the only clean politicians of his generation despite being in some powerful positions through the 80s and 90s.
No because molesting a 10 year old is immoral, independant of the law.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Getting help from his friends is only wrong if he broke some other rule along the way. There's nothing wrong with the help itself.
For crying out loud. The minister for finance who earns a wage many times the average wage takes financial "help" from businessmen and then gives some of them nice jobs. Very moral.Quote:
Originally Posted by Student Mullet
What's the deal now, he bought his house off one of the boyos at the Manchester Massacre or so they say on the radio. Slippery slope now for bumbling Bert. The media have him in their sights.
Bertie says that he did'nt break any law , now while Im no Legal Eagle , im pretty sure that under Family Law , he would be obliged to declare everything while seeking a seperation and he failed to do that.
More to do with Bertie playing the family break up card, and the opposition having to walk a fine line with the wider public (despite it only being FF bringing it up). Hence why the concentrated on the Manchester money which started off being a seperate issue, but Bertie on Tuesday successfully tied it back in with the seperation. That was before the latest can of worms being opened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
The cynic in me would suggest that the opposition want to drag it out as long as possible to keep the story alive to damage the reputation of FF's strongest hand with a drip drip effect. It wasn't really working, but it seems Bertie is doing their job for them though by not fully disclosing and continually having to explain new revelations as they get leaked.
It's hard to predict how this will shape the next election. I have to be honest I vote on the person who I feel will do the most for my area or for me personally. Sometimes this is an independent, or sometimes its a party candidate. I'd say a lot of people are like that. So in effect, what Ahern has done, won't change a lot of peoples vote.
I know someone has criticised Kenny for not going for the jugular, but I think he will gain respect from the public for repsecting Ahern's family and respecting the situation while not agreieing with it. I think this will gain votes for Fine Gael.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
And this is precicely why we end up with the governments we do. People go and vote them in because sure they have a constituency office in the town or something like that, then they go and complain about the government.
Can someone explain to me how some TD a while ago had to resign because someone painted his house for free and the Taoiseach gets away with accepting a large enough some of money?
I'm going to stop pulling this thing away from Berties corruption now.
Too many issues to deal with here. needs a thread of it's own.
Back to Bertie ...the shadey fcuk!:eek:
:D
Not only that but Bertie "buys" house from guy who giving him "loans" or "gifts".Quote:
Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge
Seems the builder guy bought house for 138k (not sure when) & Bertie either bought off him for 139k (thats what he told journalists when interviewed years ago) or 180k (this is what he claims now). I think this was 1998 when house prices increasing at considerable rate.
I think Bertie starting to smella badly now. It could be argued that he trying to cover up 1 indiscretion with another lie & as the lies flow harder to cover each one up?
Had to laugh at the way he p!ssed off the PDs yesterday. He;d got them to stay in government & 1 unscripted comment & boom! The PDs sell themselves as the FF watchdogs & Bertie tries to wipe that out in one sentence. :eek: :D
PD'S have'nt a leg to stand on, Bertie and the rest of his strokers, don't need them to form a government, and PDs can't bring the government down, so wait and see PDs will crawl under the nearest rock with tails between legs!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
True to some extent but very difficult to run a government relying on independents as they very quick to change their mind of blackmail the government. Really says a lot about irish politicians & voters that have independents queueing up to sell their vote for small local issues - if every politician did that the country would be unmanagable.Quote:
Originally Posted by casso36
Did Bertie, who has everything in the public domain according to himself, win his case yesterday with regard to his seperation financial details? For those not informed, he was trying to block tribunal access to those details, and thus block cross referencing the stuff from the last few weeks with what he actually put before the family court. Could have significant implications if they're treated differently and if they're not on the family court stuff then he's in contempt.