Biased Dublin Refs

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Originally Posted by Sheridan

(Ref: D McKeon - Dublin.)

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That name pops up quite a lot.

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Originally Posted by sonofstan

Sorry, but it's going to be hard to beat our three aces, all from this year - the penalty that wasn't a penalty and was 3 yards outside the box (McKeon, in Drogheda), the goal that was a goal but wasn't given because Alan Kelly thought it instead defied the laws of physics (Paul Devlin in the Carlisle grounds) and the 'goal' that was given that never came close to crossing the line (Drogs at Dalymount)

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I'll raise you a referee ignoring his lines(wo)man's flag and then sending off two players for protesting!

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Originally Posted by bigmac

I'll raise you a referee ignoring his lines(wo)man's flag and then sending off two players for protesting!

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A referee making three correct descisions hardly counts now does it?

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Originally Posted by bigmac

I'll raise you a referee ignoring his lines(wo)man's flag and then sending off two players for protesting!

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I think we can see that one (to keep this creaky metaphor going) since the same thing happened to us in the RSC last year - although at least our players had the sense not to go pushing officials around the place

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Originally Posted by sonofstan

I think we can see that one (to keep this creaky metaphor going) since the same thing happened to us in the RSC last year - although at least our players had the sense not to go pushing officials around the place

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yeah, see my reply in the thread on it for a more detailed exposition - just pointing out that there are crap loads of incidents where one team feels hard done by but it doesn't mean that the refs are biased at all.

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Originally Posted by City till I Die

cork played shels in the setanta cup last year and wen a header went towards goal and clearly didnt cross the line, the ref(Dave Mckeown, weres he from??) have a goal!!! HHHMMMMMMM!!! Is that poor refereeing or biased? I think u know my answer!!

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Was that not an Irish League referee. I think it was Davy Malcolm but not sure.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The rules are very clear - with the playing running away from goal and 2 City defenders behind the keeper when the incident happened, Jennings should've received a yellow card and a free kick against, but not a sending off. I don't give a fcuk about anyone's personal opinions on this - the rules are very clear on what should have happened. End of story.

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Are the rules clear though? I could be wrong but I think the fact that players were covering is irrelevant and it is a red card if a player stops a clear goalscoring opportunity with foul play.

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Originally Posted by Peadar

That name pops up quite a lot.

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The worst referee that I have ever seen and with the Irish League refs that is saying something.

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Originally Posted by David

Are the rules clear though? I could be wrong but I think the fact that players were covering is irrelevant and it is a red card if a player stops a clear goalscoring opportunity with foul play.

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Covering players generally mean its interpreted as not a clear goalscoring opportunity.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Covering players generally mean its interpreted as not a clear goalscoring opportunity.

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define a clear goalscoring opportunity?

Would Jason Byrne have been able to get to the ball and shoot for goal with the keeper AWOL?

IMO thats a clear goalscoring opportunity ......

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Originally Posted by bohs til i die

define a clear goalscoring opportunity?

Would Jason Byrne have been able to get to the ball and shoot for goal with the keeper AWOL?

IMO thats a clear goalscoring opportunity ......

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good point - an outfield player (or two) covering is not the same as akeeper or keeper and defender covering.

The rules state (among other criteria) that for a professional foul the player must be moving towards goal, so Derry were absolutely robbed on Friday.

While I'd like to agree that its a Dublin ref conspiracy, can you really comprehend the FAI/League/referees having the ability to organise something on that scale? Yes referees giving shocking decisions against non-Dublin teams, they also give shocking decisions against Dublin teams- a simple example is Bohs suffered grieviously at Bray and Drogs (or are both of those also Dublin teams ;-) )

can we have a poll on this maybe?

do you believe that EL referees are
(a) incompetent but basically unbiased
(b) incompetent and biased towards certain teams
(c) excellent and unbiased
(d) excellent but biased towards certain teams

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Originally Posted by City till I Die

Most quotes bar the personal attacks from cork fans were true! They wur robbed and typical Shels try defend the fact they got away with an extremely shocking decision by the linesman. Exact same with the Drogs goal against bohs a few weeks ago! I am pointing out here that the standard of refereeing is brutal but when it comes to regional teams playing shels or some other dublin clubs with a dublin ref in charge they are either robbed by shocking refereeing or made to fight for every decision, unlike the dubliners who have it spoon fed to them! Its disgraceful!!

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Drogheda v Bohs, June 2nd 2006
- Drogheda awarded a penalty outside the area
Ref: Dave McKeon


Bray v Bohs, August 11th 2006
- Paul Devlin scores, goal kick awarded as the officials dont see it
- Bohs fined €250 after Gareth Farrelly dismissed from dugout for arguing about that decision [that fact that he shouldnt have been there is irrelevant], we still got fined for our manager arguing over an INCORRECT decision
Ref: Alan Kelly

Bohs v Drogheda, September 1st 2006
http://irishfootballonline.com/clubs...ns&newsid=5289
Check out the top picture.
Ref: Anthony Buttimer

We have had 3 plain WRONG decisions given against us, Derry fans are arguing over referee's interpretations of the rules.

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Originally Posted by bohs til i die

Bohs v Drogheda, September 1st 2006
http://irishfootballonline.com/clubs...ns&newsid=5289
Check out the top picture.
Ref: Anthony Buttimer.

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The assistant referee gave that goal though, didn't he?

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Originally Posted by bohs til i die

We have had 3 plain WRONG decisions given against us, Derry fans are arguing over referee's interpretations of the rules.

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I agree with you 100%
The referee has a call to make on the spot and he does, it's about opinion. The decisions against Bohs this season simply beggar belief.
Like I said about Stokes sending Devine off v Longball in the Cup, he had a call to make and it's hard to argue about that.

From what I've seen of the two Derry keepers getting sent off, I think both decisions were right. Failing to spot the antics of Heary is simply a matter of too much going on at the one time. Easy to spot when you've got a load of cameras in the ground, not so easy to spot if you're on the pitch.

I certainly think that Stokes does his best, and is usually fair. Certainly not biased. Dave McKeon is quite simply incomptetent!

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Originally Posted by Peadar

The assistant referee gave that goal though, didn't he?

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Buttimer was at the edge of the penalty area and should ahve been able to see the ball in the middle of the 6 yard box, but it was the assistant who gave the goal, think his name is Ian Ward

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Originally Posted by David

Are the rules clear though? I could be wrong but I think the fact that players were covering is irrelevant and it is a red card if a player stops a clear goalscoring opportunity with foul play.

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But how can it be considered a "clear goal-scoring opportunity" if :

a) The attacking player is moving away from goal at the time; and
b) There are 2 other players covering behind the player involved in the foul ??

How can you be a cert, or even likely, to score when you're running away from goal and you still have another 2 players to get the ball past/around ??:confused:

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

But how can it be considered a "clear goal-scoring opportunity" if :

a) The attacking player is moving away from goal at the time; and
b) There are 2 other players covering behind the player involved in the foul ??

How can you be a cert, or even likely, to score when you're running away from goal and you still have another 2 players to get the ball past/around ??:confused:

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I was not speaking about any incident in particular. I only seen the start of the Shels-Derry game the other night so did not see the sending off. Even if there are players covering it could still be a clear goalscoring opportunity though. I take your point about going away from the goal.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

But how can it be considered a "clear goal-scoring opportunity" if :

a) The attacking player is moving away from goal at the time

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I've said this elsewhere, Steve, but Jennings is going away from goal, Byrne is going towards the goal, by trying to round the keeper.

Be objective and consider Jennings missing Byrne completely and landing on his arse, while Byrne continued, in the same direction with the ball.

You've plenty more games left to win the league.
This incident is only a setback. Build a bridge, get over it!

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

But how can it be considered a "clear goal-scoring opportunity" if :

a) The attacking player is moving away from goal at the time; and
b) There are 2 other players covering behind the player involved in the foul ??

How can you be a cert, or even likely, to score when you're running away from goal and you still have another 2 players to get the ball past/around ??:confused:

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Would a striker in possession of the ball with two defenders who CANNOT handle the ball to beat be considered a CLEAR GOALSCORING OPPORTUNITY?

In my opinion it is a clear goalscoring opportunity.

If a centre half fouls a striker who would then only have the goalkeeper to beat, would the centre half be considered to have prevented a CLEAR GOALSCORING OPPORTUNITY despite the fact the striker would still have to get the ball past an opposition player?

Yes he would, and a red card would be the result according to the rules.

So two defenders covering the AWOL goalkeeper is the same in my opinion as having a goalkeeper in position.


The striker doesnt have to be denied an open goal for it to be classed as a clear goal-scoring opportunity.

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Originally Posted by Peadar

You've plenty more games left to win the league.
This incident is only a setback. Build a bridge, get over it!

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Boutros Boutros Peadar, I think your new role is having a pacifying effect on you. In moderation of course.:D

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Originally Posted by razor

In moderation of course.:D

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Everything in moderation is good! ;)

I think we need to save our venom for when referees make outrageous decisions and wasting it on justifiable decisions, like in the two previous meetings between Shels and Derry, will decrease the credibility of our disapproval.

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Would a striker in possession of the ball with two defenders who CANNOT handle the ball to beat be considered a CLEAR GOALSCORING OPPORTUNITY?

In my opinion it is a clear goalscoring opportunity.

If a centre half fouls a striker who would then only have the goalkeeper to beat, would the centre half be considered to have prevented a CLEAR GOALSCORING OPPORTUNITY despite the fact the striker would still have to get the ball past an opposition player?

Yes he would, and a red card would be the result according to the rules.

So two defenders covering the AWOL goalkeeper is the same in my opinion as having a goalkeeper in position.


The striker doesnt have to be denied an open goal for it to be classed as a clear goal-scoring opportunity.

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There is an oul ref in the LOI who is retired now and works at the tech in derry. He told me that if the ball was heading towards the corner and there are two defenders covering then its NOT a clear goalscoring oppertunity. Thats from an ex-pro ref. Another thing, he also told me (off subject) that the offside rule has never changed. He said the rule from the very start is that if a player who was between the goalkeeper and the last line of defence and touches the ball, he is offside, but if there are players standing in an offside position and someone from an onside position comes and collects the ball, it is onside. The offside players were not interfering with play so it cannot be given. This is to clear up the argument about the goal bohs got against waterford. As for the refs now, i now realise there are bad refs and certain bias towards certain teams. This clears any rant i made earlier!

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Originally Posted by City till I Die

There is an oul ref in the LOI who is retired now and works at the tech in derry.

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That's Derry bias :ball: ;)

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Originally Posted by Peadar

If anything, the very fact that they decided to become a referee would suggest that they dislike football and want to harm it.

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:D It certainly looks like it.

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Originally Posted by City till I Die

There is an oul ref in the LOI who is retired now and works at the tech in derry.

Thats from an ex-pro ref.

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Now seriously, how can you expect any credibility when you have that in your post! :D

My God - this thread is probably one of the worst for sheer stupidity and arseness around here for a long time - and that's saying something.

Straying into Libelous and Deformation of Character in some places - hope some of you (mainly City til I Die) have decent solicitors...


Anyway - time to address some points on here:

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Originally Posted by seand

The rules state (among other criteria) that for a professional foul the player must be moving towards goal, so Derry were absolutely robbed on Friday.

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Incorrect.

Couple of points:

• the term "Professional Foul" has NEVER appeared in Law.

• An Obvious Goalscoring Opportunity - players don't have to be going towards goal - they just have to have a chance to shoot at goal - look at it this way - if a player is forced wide and gets taken out in the area by the goalkeeper when all he has to do is go around him to get the shot off - but there are two defenders back covering on the goal line - you would send the keeper off. Some people on here seem to think that a couple of defenders back covering disqualifies the notion of a Goalscoring Opportunity - and by there logic - the keeper should be cautioned and allowed to remain on the field of play.

ALL of the dismissals in the two Derry - Shels games were spot on within Law.

Forde came out with his hands up deliberately - handled the ball and stopped it going through for the attacking player to have a clear shot on goal - ergo - Obvious Goalscoring Opportunity.

The second red in the Final - reckless challenge - that if connected - may have broken the Shels player's legs.

As for the one missed by the referee in that incident - I have to say - I missed it myself in real time - only having seen the replay did I pick up the violent conduct. In this case - it's up to the FAI to retrospectively suspend the Shels player.

As for Jennings on Friday - again - he's denied an Obvious Goalscoring Opportunity (see my second bullet point above)

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Originally Posted by City till I Die

There is an oul ref in the LOI who is retired now and works at the tech in derry. He told me that if the ball was heading towards the corner and there are two defenders covering then its NOT a clear goalscoring oppertunity. Thats from an ex-pro ref. Another thing, he also told me (off subject) that the offside rule has never changed. He said the rule from the very start is that if a player who was between the goalkeeper and the last line of defence and touches the ball, he is offside, but if there are players standing in an offside position and someone from an onside position comes and collects the ball, it is onside. The offside players were not interfering with play so it cannot be given. This is to clear up the argument about the goal bohs got against waterford. As for the refs now, i now realise there are bad refs and certain bias towards certain teams. This clears any rant i made earlier!

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Firstly on the "oul LOI ref" and his assertion on the obvious goalscoring opportunity - see my second bullet point above. If that's his interpretation of Law then I wouldn't be surprised if he was removed from the LOI not due to age, but due to not applying Law correctly / poor marks.

As for the assertion on the Offside Law never changing - it has changed and been clarified several times over the years - see here for full details: http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/...ub/offhist.htm

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Originally Posted by bigmac

I'll raise you a referee ignoring his lines(wo)man's flag and then sending off two players for protesting!

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Once again - three correct decisions - and some of the abuse being flung at the Assistant by the two Waterford players was horrendous...

Additionally, I'm 90% certain I saw Brennan booked for mouthing to the ref after Forde's dismissal and that he was, consequently, sent off for a second yellow (in which case the ref was remarkably lenient.)

There should be more non Dublin refs in the league and then these neutral refs could referee games between a Dublin club and a provincial club to avoid allegations of bias towards Dublin clubs by Dublin refs.Is there some law out there saying you have to be from Dublin or Cork to ref in the Eircom League:rolleyes: .
The refs are probably not biased just incompetent.

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Originally Posted by Sheridan

Additionally, I'm 90% certain I saw Brennan booked for mouthing to the ref after Forde's dismissal and that he was, consequently, sent off for a second yellow (in which case the ref was remarkably lenient.)

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Someone was definitely booked.
I remember thinking that he had only booked Forde and thought he was lucky to be still on the pitch.

Why should it be so un-thinkable, in light of the recent high profile Italian scandal, that officials here in Ireland would be in no way open to or willing to accept money in order to give favourable decisions.

Are we so squeaky clean?
I think you only need to look at Irish politicians to realise that we live in quite a corrupt state, so why shouldn't it transcend to referees?

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Originally Posted by Krstic

Why should it be so un-thinkable, in light of the recent high profile Italian scandal, that officials here in Ireland would be in no way open to or willing to accept money in order to give favourable decisions.

Are we so squeaky clean?
I think you only need to look at Irish politicians to realise that we live in quite a corrupt state, so why shouldn't it transcend to referees?

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Come off it ffs :rolleyes::mad:

Stupid thread title. Most refs dont care what teams they officiate at. To say they have a Dublin bias is laughable. Talk to any EL fan and they will tell you that its incompetency across the board.

As for paying off officials do you think clubs here have money to even pay their own players let alone the refs?:eek:

KOH

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Originally Posted by Réiteoir

Come off it ffs :rolleyes:

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So you know for certain there's no corruption in irish sport?

Happy days then, all's ok:rolleyes: :mad:

Nobody knows anything for certain (are you certain there is?). But to start suggesting that either Dublin clubs, or EL/FAI officials acting in favour of Dublin clubs, are paying referees money is just absurd, and libelous. Besides, most clubs struggle to afford paying their own staff, nevermind the amounts of money required to bribe officials. There is not enough money in the league for such circumstances, IMO anyways.

Are you all ignoring the examples given of bad decisions against Dublin clubs? Do they go down as poor decisions, yet when they go against you the referee is clearly on the take?

a few years ago in a cup match in tolka one of the Sligo rovers players rounded the Shams keeper and was brought down inside the box , the ref gave the penalty instantly but only booked the keeper who then saved the peno , the ref tryed to justify this decison afterwards by pointing out that the ball was not heading towards goal so therefore was a yellow card offence , I am nearly sure the ref was Dave McKeon.

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Originally Posted by Krstic

Why should it be so un-thinkable, in light of the recent high profile Italian scandal, that officials here in Ireland would be in no way open to or willing to accept money in order to give favourable decisions.

Are we so squeaky clean?
I think you only need to look at Irish politicians to realise that we live in quite a corrupt state, so why shouldn't it transcend to referees?

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well it is one way of explaining the amount of favourable decisions Derry have received from match officials in the Brandywell since the mid 80's.

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players don't have to be going towards goal - they just have to have a chance to shoot at goal -

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So if a player has a chance of shooting from 50 yards and is brought down he shud be sent off??

OBVIOUS Goalscoring Opportunity

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by londonred

a few years ago in a cup match in tolka one of the Sligo rovers players rounded the Shams keeper and was brought down inside the box , the ref gave the penalty instantly but only booked the keeper who then saved the peno , the ref tryed to justify this decison afterwards by pointing out that the ball was not heading towards goal so therefore was a yellow card offence , I am nearly sure the ref was Dave McKeon.

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John McDermott actually and again if you are having a go at a referee about a certain decision at least get the name of the referee right!!