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Where does the Irish Government stand with regards to the conflict in the Middle East? This attack on the UN has been the only instance that I've found condemnation of the Israeli's. I haven't found any condemnation from the Government condemning what is basically Israeli carpet bombing of the Leb!! Is it the typical "Well America and Britain are basically shoulder to shoulder with Israel so we better keep schtum" bullsh1t?Quote:
Originally Posted by d f x-
Extracts from press releasesQuote:
Originally Posted by dancinpants
http://www.dfa.ie/Press_Releases/20060718/2118.htm
But Israel is a strong military power. We share the belief within the EU that its military response in Gaza and in Lebanon has been harsh and disproportionate. Israel has a legitimate right to defend its citizens, but this must not be at the expense of the lives and welfare of Lebanese and Palestinian civilians. All military operations must be carried out in strict accordance with international law. And all parties must act on their responsibility to protect civilian lives. It has to be said that Israel is clearly failing to do so.
http://www.dfa.ie/Press_Releases/20060713/2115.htm
I condemn the deaths of large numbers of civilians in Israeli attacks on Lebanon and in Gaza. They are being caused by harshly disproportionate military action. I call on the Israeli Government to ensure that military operations are undertaken only in accordance with international law. It should end its blockade on Lebanon, stop the destruction of civilian infrastructure in Lebanon and Gaza, and act urgently to avoid a humanitarian crisis in the Occupied Territories
http://www.dfa.ie/Press_Releases/20060721/2119.htm
Conor Lenihan, T.D., Minister of State for Development Cooperation and Human Rights, today announced that the Government is to provide €1 million in relief assistance for Lebanon and Palestine to meet the growing humanitarian needs as a result of the current crisis.
An immediate sum of €500,000 in humanitarian relief will be made available for Lebanon and €500,000 in emergency humanitarian support will be provided for Palestine.
The Minister stated “Ireland shares a strong sense of solidarity with Lebanon and its people, not least as a result of our long history of involvement with the UNIFIL peacekeeping force. We are also very concerned at the serious humanitarian situation in Gaza and the Occupied Territories. The Government has called for an end to the violence in and from Lebanon, Israel and Palestine and is extremely concerned at the large number of civilian casualties and the continued destruction of essential infrastructure. We will continue to exert our influence directly with the parties and within the EU and at the UN to end the crisis and encourage a return to political negotiation.”
does nobody remember the two irish soldiers that got killed in 81 by the israelis?
I did like the use of the word "goverments SUMMONS israeli envoy" that was quite strong. fair play to ahern if thats what he said.
again i better keep my real feelings hidden or ill be getting a ban!!
As long as you're not an idiot, you won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
NO, dodge it might be too close to the bone for some, a smack of 21st century realism.
I am not an idiot, I dont know about you however ;)
Oh I'm definitely an idiot. Iwas just saying you won't get banned for expressing your opinion if you do it in a decent way...
I havent had time to read all the posts so some of these points
may have been made already
imo the Israelis are evil warmongers
Looking at the murder of innocent civilians last night
on the box would make you a supporter of all things anti Israel
Imagine if the British bombed Dublin like that every time the IRA killed
one of its soldiers!
They deliberately killed them UN soldiers( the UN post was in contact
with the Israelis 6 times before they were killed)
IMO the real axis of Evil is the US,Britain,Israel
Israel could care less what Ireland thinks. The only country they would possibly listen to is the USA & thats not guaranteed.
Quote:
Efforts to reach a statement failed yesterday after the United States was reported to have rejected any criticism of the Israeli operation.
Ok, I dont mean this in a bad way honestly, but what really ****ess me off here, is the hypocrisy of the US, had one of its own (UN) citizens been killed in this strike, things would be completely different. Im not saying I would have liked to have seen an american getting killed, not at all, but it would be *more* than interesting to see if one had, how the US would have reacted then. its fairly obvious the israelis dont want a UN presence in lebanon, so the UN seeing what they are doing and are trying to scaremonger them out of lebanon so they can get on with their genocide without any info being filtered out to the rest of the world. and thats simply what it is......genocide that is....
As I say that australia have withdrawn their 12 citizens from the UN in that area. who else to follow suit? need I say more.
What I really want to know, and I know most of it already, but why is it the US have an undying support for Israel and will therefore never criticise said (illegal)state.
Tommy Tirnan does a decent skit on this.. "**** off! *** off! *** off!!!"Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Paul define "illegal state"? the borders of Israel (excluding the occupied territories that is) are internationally recognised. The state may be breaking aspects of international law but the state itself is not illegal. terminology along those lines is extremely loose and dangerous.
I deplore the killing of the UN officials, and it does reflect very badly. I dont think it was accidental, and had a certain level of intent. the israelis are getting it a lot tougher than they expected in border infantry combat
ya hopefully that continues.Quote:
the israelis are getting it a lot tougher than they expected in border infantry combat
Tom, btw I reckon, and go to far as to say, that the israelis had advised the US to ensure none of its UN personnel were there at the time of that bombing. Cos the israelis had been warned on 6 different occassions they were targeting UN positions.
illegal? a lot of arab nations would probably like to agrre with paulQuote:
Originally Posted by Saint Tom
also isnt the northern ireland partionist border officially recognised as well:eek:
wonder is it possible to get any lebanon flags for the trip to germany.....solidarity and all that?
I have a lot of sympathy for Israels battles with terrorists but they have gone too far this time. Deliberate targetting of UN observers & TV crews shows what they probably doing when the media not watching. Where is the UN now that Israel is invading Lebanon - didn't they attack Iraq because did the same thing in Kuwait, same for Serbia into Kosovo.
Blair has lost any remaining respect & i wonder how this affecting his opinion polls in the UK.
:(
politics and sport should not mix, so I would not be keen on seeing lebanon flags flown in Stuttgart. People forget very easily the welcome that we got in tel Aviv last year, and the "Protests" at lansdowne for the return game were disgusting.
as for reference to the north, this situation is incomparable
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Tom
if i want to wave a plaestine/leb flag its my right to do so, i feel an affinity with the palestinian situation....i have no love for israel
i wouldnt protest or anything like that but i would like to show soldiarity
why is the ref to the north incomparable.....i was talking about your idea of what a border "officially" is and isnt
in my opinion i dont recognise "northern ireland" or israel
If you wanted to protest outside the group fair enough. Protesting inside stadiums is childish & unfair. Too many morons to jump on the bandwagon.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
so when you dont recognise Israel, as you say, are you of the opinion that it should not exist?
This situation is totally incomparable to the north ( major clash of world religions, international repercussions, western interests v islamic fundamentalism, number of people affected, number of victims, history going back thousands of years)
Israel say they were targetting Hizbollah based on intelligence but obviously that "intelligence" didn't tell them anything about civilians, that is if they even cared.Quote:
More than 40 civilians, including 20 children, have been killed in a town in southern Lebanon in the deadliest Israeli strike of the conflict.
:(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Tom
yeah it shouldnt exist........
im not comparing it to norn iron.(even though thre are simalarities with the way the jews treat the palestinians and the british government in the past).....just pointing out that your point about official borders is not true
just casue it says it in your geography book doesnt mean diddly squat..
here read this, if you want to learn about terrorism:Quote:
I have a lot of sympathy for Israels battles with terrorists but they have gone too far this time.
and for those of you who say Israel is fighting
terrorism, here are some facts about Israel and their
use of "terrorism"
Terrorism has been the hallmark of Israeli leaders,
including Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir, Ehud Barak,
Benjamin Netanyahu and Ariel Sharon, amongst others.
The massacres, including Deir Yassin, Doueima, Safsaf,
Tantura, amongst scores of others, and war crimes that
they have orchestrated would take volumes to relate.
One of the most notorious examples of Israeli
terrorism in the post-war period 1945-1948, was the
bombing of the King David Hotel on July 22, 1946,
which killed 92 people.
Assassination of Palestinian leaders and
intellectuals, in Europe and the Middle East has gone
on for years. Fathi Shikaki was assassinated in Malta
in 1995 on the orders of Yitzhak Rabin. The role of
Ehud Barak, dressed as an Arab woman, in the
assassination of three Palestinian leaders, including
the poet Kemal Nasser, in 1973 in Beirut, must not be
forgotten.
Israeli assassination is not limited to Palestinians
but includes the 1944 assassination of the British
minister Lord Moyne in Cairo as planned by Yitzhak
Shamir.
A horrible crime was committed in the assassination of
the Swedish nobleman, Count Folke Bernadotte, a UN
mediator, on Sept. 17, 1948, in Jerusalem, on the
orders of Yitzhak Shamir, who later became prime
minister of Israel. Count Bernadotte’s sin was his
recommendation, as the UN mediator, that Palestinian
refugees who were driven out from their homes by
Israel should be allowed to return to their homes.
This recommendation was the substance of the UN
resolution 194, on Dec. 11, 1948, stipulating the
right of return for the Palestinian refugees as soon
as possible.
Israeli use of chemical weapons is also on record in
the botched attempt to assassinate Khalid Meshal, a
Hamas leader, in Amman in 1997, on the orders of Prime
Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
The first act of air piracy in the history of civil
aviation was carried out by Israel in 1954, when a
civilian Syrian airliner was forced down in Tel Aviv
and its passengers and crew held hostage, despite
international condemnation.
The first act of shooting down a civilian airliner was
deliberately carried out by Israel when a Libyan
airliner was shot down by Israeli jet fighters over
Sinai in February 1973, on the orders of Israeli prime
minister Golda Meir, killing 107 of its passengers and
its entire French crew.
Israeli terror was not restricted to Palestinians,
Arabs and Europeans but included its own closest
supporter and ally, the United States. In 1954,
Israeli secret agents bombed the U.S. diplomatic
centres in Cairo and Alexandria (known as the Lavon
Affair), in an attempt to put the blame on the
Egyptians. Israel later honoured the perpetrator,
Marcello Ninio.
In June 1967, Israeli forces attacked the U.S. spy
ship USS Liberty, and strafed rescue boats, killing 35
and injuring 170 U.S. servicemen, in an attempt to
conceal its own secret communications, and again tried
to blame it on the Egyptians. To this day, incredible
as it may seem, the U.S. Congress refuses to hold an
inquiry into this crime, as requested by the surviving
crew. Needless to say, no sanctions were imposed or
calls to extradite the perpetrators were made.
Zionist terror did not spare Jews. In 1940, Menachem
Begin’s Irgun Zwei Leumi terrorist gang bombed the
ship Patria in Haifa harbor, killing 240 Jewish
refugees, so as to put the blame on the British for
political gain.
In 1950-1951, Israeli agents were dispatched to Iraq
where they tossed hand grenades into the crowded
Massauda Shem-Tov synagogue, causing numerous deaths,
in order to blame it on the Iraqis and encourage
reluctant Iraqi Jews to rturn to Israel.
oh and looks like our government got something right for once:
http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1104532006
Moderator: Please give links to sources or i will have to remove posts!
Bennocelt, bear with this point.
Imagine your people, the only one of its kind in the world, having sufffered thousands of years of persecution, eviction and injustice, are given a state in which to protect themselves for the first time in two thousand years. You are surrounded by hostile FUNDAMENTALIST neighbours who vow that your way of life/religion and identity should be exterminated. Would you lie down and take it??
Now, I dont back Israel 100%, far from it, but maybe people should just consider the mentality that exists amongst Israeli Jews. what happened at the weekend are war crimes, but people fast forget that this was all started by incursion into israeli territory and missile attacks on a city double the size of Cork.
Probably wouldn't have taken the land to begin with!!!:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Tom
Who was in that area before it was given to Israel?
beduoin arabs, but it was no more than desert and their population wasnt huge at that. also, jewish people settled under the british mandate from 1900 onwards, so by the time of the 2nd world war, they nearly equalled the numbers of the arabs in historical palestine
they didn't take the land, our british friends held a mandate on the territory and divided it between an arab state (west bank and gaza) and a jewish state. It would have remained like that had all surrounding arab states not invaded the jewish state. Irony is had that not have happened there would be a palesinian state now
What I'd do is decide that I want my state to be just slightly bigger and occupy the neighbouring lands, keeping the people there in poverty. That way I could ensure to keep my fundamentalist neighbours really cheesed off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Tom
i like the fact that you said "are given":rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Tom
the palestinain people have the right to defend themselves as well you know.....
I totally agree that they have a right to defend themselves bennocelt, totally and absolutely. and they have been the victims of injustice also. I just feel that people dont see things from both sides of the arguement. Israeli mentallity is still firmly rooted in "the holocaust could happen again" mode, and I think that if I were in their situation, I would be kinda inclined to be protectionate of my people.
Given is the correct term to use, since the british held the mandate and sanctioned the creation of the state.
I just feel sorry for the hundreds of thousand of people caught in the middle of an arguement that cant and wont be solved
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKq38...related&searchQuote:
Originally Posted by Saint Tom
^ Something about Israel taking civilians in Gaza that started it , perhaps..? (according to Noam Chomsky)
Breakingnews is that Israel have captured some Hezbollah at a hospital close to the Lebanon/Syria border...Hezbollahs gonna be seriously bummed now.
Also Saint Tom, just because Israel tells us that Hezbollah snatched the soldiers from inside Israel doesn't necessarily make it so. Word going around the radio talkshows here, is that it may be the case that the soldiers were nabbed while they made an incursion into LEBANON.
Very glad to see this.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
I still feel the integrity of our country is being destroyed by the failure of our government to denounce the terrorist state of Israel and its supporters. However, this is a welcome step.
As for the UN security council, they are a joke.