Why so anti GAA?

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Originally Posted by A face

How in gods name can you say we are sports mad with that sectarianism existing and no one batting an eyelid .... that fact that they can actually over look that in that advert (which doesn't have an eL) spells it out.

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We're sports mad because for our size we have a LOT of sports and a LOT of sports attendances and a LOT of diversity.

What "ban" on foreign games ? So the GAA doesn't let foreign games into their stadia unless asked and paid for. Its their property, their stadia why shouldn't they only let in who they want to and get money for it ?

I play Rugby, have done for years. Do any of the GAA people i know care ? No because some of them play soccer/rugby too.

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But the 'soccer' they watch is in a country where the game they banned has its origin.

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Again, whats your point ?

GAA fans/players would almost all watch soccer/rugby whereas you can't say the same for soccer fans.

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Originally Posted by clash

What ban is that ?

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GAA members in Kerry spreading broken glass on pitches where a foreign game is played

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1. I'm COI, Sam McGuire was COI and one of the last Presidents of the GAA was COI. Theres no Sectarianism in the GAA.

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There is .... i'm sorry clash, there is no getting away from it. I hate saying it but there is.

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2. I don't agree with American Football being played in Croker but they were a "once" off.

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Three or four times wasn't it ?? Am i wrong here ??

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Don't know anything about it.

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You're better off ... horrible story

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Your point ?

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I think they are just general points about the GAA

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Again, your point ?

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Same again

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The government funding was relatively small compared to the price of Croke Park and other grounds. The FAI have access to the same funds.

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Dont want to go here but all i'll say is it isnt a level playing field

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1. What political power ?

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That'll be the power the exercise on a regular basis, clash .... its there, its a can of worms bring this one up but believe me, its there

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2. And what sport has a higher participation then GAA in this country ?

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That'll be a foreign game ...... Sawkir !!

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???

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Double standards, and hypocritical is what he's saying.

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Most GAA league games have higher attendances then EL finals.

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Not a chance .... i only go to GAA league games because of the rat race that is tickets for All Ireland, attendance are brutal. Either Cork or Kilkenny have been in the All Ireland final for the last few years .... when they play a league game in either Cork or Kilkenny the attendances are very poor, same team barr a few changes you know yourself but the crowds are nowhere to be seen. Good games, seriously ... nothing to suggest there would be a low attendance but there is.

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Originally Posted by clash

We're sports mad because for our size we have a LOT of sports and a LOT of sports attendances and a LOT of diversity.

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We do have different codes but if you were to compare funding, resources, media coverage you wouldn't see that picture.

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What "ban" on foreign games ? So the GAA doesn't let foreign games into their stadia unless asked and paid for. Its their property, their stadia why shouldn't they only let in who they want to and get money for it ?

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GAA members in alot of clubs cannot play other sports, this has relaxed in recent times but is definitely still very evident. Alot of schools even go to the extent that not only do they ban 'foregin games', they ban either hurling or gaelic (whatever county is stronger) .... i mean clash, if its on that kind of level, you'd have to admit .... it is a problem.

There are countless stories to be told on this topic

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I play Rugby, have done for years. Do any of the GAA people i know care ? No because some of them play soccer/rugby too.

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Likewise in soccer football, but people are allowed to open play for other codes and would not suffer at the hands of selectors, obviously if you dont train then its a different matter but that can be said for every sport.

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Again, whats your point ?

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Do you not see anything wrong with that?

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GAA fans/players would almost all watch soccer/rugby whereas you can't say the same for soccer fans.

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I'd say more so with soccer crowds, there is actually not restriction on that level. What i'm saying is that if you are a member of a GAA club and it was common knowledge that you went to the FAI cup final or something, heads would turn, not from all but i have seen this myself.

I like this debate.

Anyway I have 2 personal experiences to add.

Firstly in my final year in uni, we all had to complete individual projects and we had to select our topic before the end of the 3rd year. During the summer of 3rd year a guy from my class who played intercounty football won a Leinster Championship medal. He had always been struggling with the course barely passing each year and by his own admission was really screwed with the final year project. Anyway we all arrived back in Sept after his win and noticed that a new but very easy project had appeared on the list and it was assigned to him. He still struggled but managed to submit it and ended up with a 1:1. The next year he pursued a masters but dropped out but still managed to get a job as a consultant in a financial company, (with no industrial experience) where he got extra time off for games. I know people with 1-1 on scholarships who couldnt get even an entry level job!

Secondly I worked in research in BOI on Baggot street and once in a blue moon we had "team jersey" day for charity. Unofficially, it was made abundantly clear that non-gaa jerseys were not allowed.

Face it clash, there is a serious sectarian problem running right through the GAA.

How well was the minutes silence for the London bombings observed last year during the Ulster final in Croke Park. (Look up archives of the Herald and see the front page from the Monday after if you dont know.)

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Originally Posted by clash

What "ban" on foreign games ? So the GAA doesn't let foreign games into their stadia unless asked and paid for. Its their property, their stadia why shouldn't they only let in who they want to and get money for it ?

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And even if you ask and offer to pay, you still won't get in......

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Originally Posted by clash

On the offer point -> Why would the GAA need/want Landsowne for ladies/underage ? They have more then enough stadia to fill ladies/underage if Croker was ever unavailible. What they don't have is stadia for (or at least stadia in Dublin) to fill senior mens football and hurling.

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You asked had the FAI/IRFU ever offered Landsdowne to the GAA - the answer is clearly yes. The same courtesy was not extended reciprocally.

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Originally Posted by clash

We're sports mad because for our size we have a LOT of sports and a LOT of sports attendances and a LOT of diversity.

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No we don't have a lot of attendences. Aside from the bandwagon support and occasional big day out, Irish people in general are not passionate, committed and loyal supporters of Irish teams. The lowest attendences for any team's home match is an indication of how many "sports mad" people follow that team, and I think you'll find, in all sports, that it's pretty pathetic when compared to a final.

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Originally Posted by clash

Most GAA league games have higher attendances then EL finals.

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Not comparing like with like. There are 5 premier division teams in Dublin (plus Rovers), who each play 16-17 home matches a year. Therefore supporters are split amongst these 6 clubs. If you add up the average gate of each of the clubs, then you get just under 8000 attending soccer matches in Dublin.
There is one Dublin football team, who play 3-5 home matches in the league (depending on progress.). What is the average gate for a Dublin league match? Even more interestingly, what is the average gate for a Dublin Hurling league match?

On the GAA's attitude towards other sports, why is it that soccer and rugby are given special status in the pantheon of foreign sports? Why was there boxing and American Football in Croke Park, and All-Ireland dates changed to accommodate a few rounds of golf, but there was such a furore over rugby and soccer?

In a final point, both Croke Park and Merrion Square are unrepresentative of the grassroots of both associations. There are hardcore power-hungry people who love nothing more than being on committees and wielding the rule book for their five minutes of fame, when the people who really do all the work, the coaches, players and parents just go about their business quietly. I KNOW that this is the case in the FAI and no less than Sean Kelly said that the ordinary people in the GAA don't care what Croke Park says.

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Originally Posted by A face

GAA members in Kerry spreading broken glass on pitches where a foreign game is played

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Never heard that, when was it ?

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There is .... i'm sorry clash, there is no getting away from it. I hate saying it but there is.

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So your saying "my" kind isn't welcome in the GAA ? :confused:

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Three or four times wasn't it ?? Am i wrong here ??

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By "Once off" i sort of meant its more a "show for shows sake". i.e > American Football is never going to take off in Ireland, it isn't a competitior to the GAA at the moment. I don't see it as any different to allowing Bono into Croke Park. (Which i also don't like).

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Dont want to go here but all i'll say is it isnt a level playing field

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And why not ?

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Not a chance .... i only go to GAA league games because of the rat race that is tickets for All Ireland, attendance are brutal. Either Cork or Kilkenny have been in the All Ireland final for the last few years .... when they play a league game in either Cork or Kilkenny the attendances are very poor, same team barr a few changes you know yourself but the crowds are nowhere to be seen. Good games, seriously ... nothing to suggest there would be a low attendance but there is.

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But lower then your standard EL match ? I highly doubt it. I was in Semple there for the league semi's.

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Originally Posted by sullanefc

I think you will find that this is an issue in the majority of schools the length and breadth of the country. It was certainly the case in Primary school for me. Not so much in secondary.

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10 years ago me and my classmates in primary school (an irish school) approached the headmaster to set up a football team in the school. we all played gaa and basketball,and both quite successfully too, for the school,yet the idea of the school haveing football wasnt even considered.

ive played both football and gaa for many years,enjoyed both immensely,and successfully,so im in a good place to pass comment,when i say that sporting bigotry is a one-way thing in this country,and it doesnt stem from the association kind of football

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Originally Posted by pól-dcfc

.... talk about WUMage :rolleyes:

Although I agree that the fuc|<ers shouldn't be booing Rangers players.

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youre right there.
they should be booing every opposition player

right going by what you have said, it fairly obvious that you are/were a limerick supporter if indeed you did support a club. I cant believe that the hatred in the city towards the GAA is as big as you say? Im not a support of the GAA at all as a few GUFC supporters could tell you but I would never go to such lengths as you have said that you say you have seen.

All i can say lads is that i love the eircom league and the GAA equally and i cant see why others dont

I never saw the rivalry thing in my own community and i happily played both soccer and hurling and football with no hastle whatsoever,maybe i was just lucky but i know of other people on this forum who do the same even today, its just not a big deal to anyone where I live

For what its worth I only play Hurling now but I gave up soccer on my own, no pressure to do so

Asking an Irish soccer fan why he hates the GAA, would be a bit like asking the Jews why they hate Hitler.

A few people posting here seem to be under the impression that the gaa have opened up Croke Park. Not really. Rule 42 still exists. Munster needn't ask to play at the Gaelic Grounds etc.
Personally, I would rather Ireland played their home matches in Celtic Park until Lansdowne is ready. The FAI should not be funding an organisation that has a racist rule on its' books.
Also, the gaa have received more structural funding than ALL other sports that are registered with the Sports Council.
You only have to read about the bigoted comments coming from the hierarchy at Thomas Davis to understand why Rovers fans, who formerly supported gaa in the county, have given up.
Another reason why I dislike the gaa - compare a coaching session of 12 to 15 year olds at a gaa club to coaching at a football club: gaa club - "you have to turn up for us on Sunday or else......". football club - "I don't mind what sport you play, whether it's running, swimming or cycling, it can only benefit you in the long run". Not typical at every club of course, but the above is a genuine case of two Level 2 coaches in their respective sports.

Didn't the GAA rufuse to let Omagh Town use a larger capacity GAA Ground to host a friendly against a Liverpool XI to raise money for the families of the victims of the bombing up there - because a game of football would be played on perceived "sacred ground"?

Correct!!!

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Originally Posted by Réiteoir

Didn't the GAA rufuse to let Omagh Town use a larger capacity GAA Ground to host a friendly against a Liverpool XI to raise money for the families of the victims of the bombing up there - because a game of football would be played on perceived "sacred ground"?

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Well that's just disgraceful if true.:mad:

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Originally Posted by Maribor

Correct!!!

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Thought so - there was a double page article on it in "When Saturday Comes" a few years back

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Originally Posted by pól-dcfc

Anyway. One thing about 'soccer' - at least it wasn't made up in the late nineteenth century to mimic 'soccer'.

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And football was?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...icsports.html:

Ancient Origins

Gaelic football and hurling have been arousing Irish passions for a long, long time. Football became popular as early as the 16th century, when teams might have consisted of all the able-bodied men of a town or parish. In those earliest days, the rather unorganized game would begin between the two towns and end when one side had managed to force the ball across a line into the other's territory.

Or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_football:

The first reference to any code of football in Ireland occurs in the Statute of Galway of 1527, which allowed the playing of football and archery but banned "hokie' — the hurling of a little ball with sticks or staves" as well as other sports. However even "foot-ball" was banned by the severe Sunday Observance Act of 1695, which imposed a fine of one shilling (a substantial amount at the time) for those caught playing sports. It proved difficult, if not impossible for the authorities to enforce the Act and the earliest recorded match in Ireland was one between Louth and Meath, at Slane, in 1712.

By the early 19th century, various football games, referred to collectively as caid, were popular in Kerry , especially the Dingle Peninsula. Father W. Ferris described two forms of caid: the "field game" in which the object was to put the ball through arch-like goals, formed from the boughs of two trees, and; the epic "cross-country game" which lasted the whole of a Sunday (after mass) and was won by taking the ball across a parish boundary. "Wrestling", "holding" opposing players, and carrying the ball were all allowed.


I think you'll find that the only truth to the "mimicked" idea is that the founders of the GAA liked the way that soccer's rules had been codified, and that the GAA could learn from this--not that the game was invented by mimicking soccer. http://gaa.ie/page/the_birth_of_cuma...eas_gael.html:

Cusack professed he admired the English Amateur Athletics Association and stated that the GAA "could not do better than adopt somewhat similar rules".

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Originally Posted by clash

What ban is that ?

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GAA members were banned from playing or attending foreign sports. Christ, they even expelled Douglas Hyde for daring to attend an international football match when he was president.

This thread should be locked, as it's clear this WUM is either 12 or doesn't know enough about the organisation he's trying to defend to back his arguement.

Before it's locked, does anyone know of any decent books or studies on the history of GAA, it's opposition to 'sacair', the ban, and suchlike?
It'd be great to get some substance on this -- and to educate our delusional friend.

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Originally Posted by Macy

GAA members were banned from playing or attending foreign sports. Christ, they even expelled Douglas Hyde for daring to attend an international football match when he was president.

This thread should be locked, as it's clear this WUM is either 12 or doesn't know enough about the organisation he's trying to defend to back his arguement.

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Christ Macy go easy. I've noticed from the thread a complete discrediting of this guys opinion. Its his opinion, he has expressed it and he's entitled to do so. I noticed dcfc steve linked this thread to my thread on my views of the Eircom League.

As much as Clash I was entitled to my opinions. I choose not to fund the Eircom League any further. Few clubs in LOI can afford to have backs turned on them. Are we not entitled to our opinion. Christ its not like the guy has posted a shock revelation.We know how GAA is regarded. I've heard the same response to GAA results announced at EL games. I9 dont follow GAA but if I did I'm pretty certain I wouldn't see a steward assaulted, a bottle thrown at an opposing player, spitting, racist chanting, drumstick throwing as I have done at Finn Harps. I dont have a problem naming the club critisised as I will be for doing it. If these things are happening then might it be more appropriate to address the problems of the game as a whole than shoot the messenger who is well in his rights to bring to public attention such incidents. I think if you read Clash's original post he has begged a question and opened it to debate. I dont think he did nor would I have done so posted the thread to be bullied.

B

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Originally Posted by Harpsbear

I think if you read Clash's original post he has begged a question and opened it to debate. I dont think he did nor would I have done so posted the thread to be bullied.

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The only thing I pulled him up on was his ignorance to the ban, which is a matter of fact not opinion. GAA people might not be proud of that part of their not too distant past - it only ceased being official in the 70's ffs - but to deny there was ever a ban at all? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Harpsbear

Christ Macy go easy. I've noticed from the thread a complete discrediting of this guys opinion. Its his opinion, he has expressed it and he's entitled to do so.

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Nothing wrong with having an opinion, but trying to argue and back-up that opinion based on what seems to be very uninformed ground deserves to be discredited. (appearing to not know anything about Tallaght, the ban, glass spreading etc.)

There's 6 pages outlining why a lot are Anti-GAA (he seems to have only outlined one event at an unidentified ground) yet he still doesn't seem to see it. No wonder a few are losing their patience.

A couple of other incidents where the GAA showed themselves to be true cnuts...

1) Back when Rovers where in the RDS they had arranged a charity double header. Their game with Bohs was to be preceeded by Dublin v Down in GAAball. (Down may have been world series champions at this stage). 3 days before it was due to go ahead, GAA hq stopped it and threatened bans to any players who took part. Remember, this was for charity...

2) Galway tried to use their local GAA ground for a european ground and everything was OK locally. GAA hq stopped it. Fair play to the rugby crowd for stepping up.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

A couple of other incidents where the GAA showed themselves to be true cnuts...

1) Back when Rovers where in the RDS they had arranged a charity double header. Their game with Bohs was to be preceeded by Dublin v Down in GAAball. (Down may have been world series champions at this stage). 3 days before it was due to go ahead, GAA hq stopped it and threatened bans to any players who took part. Remember, this was for charity...

2) Galway tried to use their local GAA ground for a european ground and everything was OK locally. GAA hq stopped it. Fair play to the rugby crowd for stepping up.

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1. That was an absolute disgrace.

2. Actually for their game against Odense it was played on a GAA ground. I know I was at it. One was played in Carraroe, presumably on a GAA ground, and one was played at the Sportsgrounds a rugby pitch. I'm sure a Galway fan can confirm same.

KOH

2) might've been resolved in the end. Fairly sure they tried to put a kibosh on it at one stage. Apologies to eveyone in Galway GAA circles...

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if I did I'm pretty certain I wouldn't see a steward assaulted, a bottle thrown at an opposing player, spitting, racist chanting, drumstick throwing as I have done at Finn Harps.

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How many of these things did you actually SEE though? You left Harps before most of this ever happened- then when the incidents took place used them as stick to beat the club with. As far as I can tell you finished supporting Harps because nobody gave your crusade against our financial controller the time of day.

I used to follow Donegal GAA all over the country, and while behaviour was generally good (as at eL games) I did see some unpleasant stuff including fights between rival fans, quite insanely dangerous spectator conditions and occasionally mindless thuggery on the pitch. Did those few incidents mean that this is the norm at GAA matches or that no one should go- No, of course not. Worth noting though that while action was taken against those involved in the incidents at Harps, nothing was ever done about anything I saw at a GAA match.

As far as I know a local Galway GAA club owned their own ground and allowed the European game to be played there- it wasn't a GAA decision, but one local club being a good neighbour, and fair play to them.

Sam Savic and others have outlined my views on this but just to add a wee story to illustrate the GAA mentality - a mate of mine did a sponsored walk for the Central Remedial Clinic a few years. The walk was to culminate in Croke Park. When the walkers got to Croke Park, the celebrity leader of the walk was refused entry. The walker's crime? He played "soccer." His name? Nobby Stiles.

As Sam has said the GAA have NOT gotten rid of Section 42, they've merely suspended it so they can cash in while Lansdowne is redeveloped. The GAA are double winners on this - 1) they make €10m clear profit to prop up their tax-payer funded white elephant of a stadium and 2) the gullible amongst us think that the GAA are doing it out of the goodness of their heart. They're not.

KOH

GUFC have played European games at community-owned pitches where GAA
games were also played.

But not at the same time !

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Originally Posted by Galway Harps

As far as I know a local Galway GAA club owned their own ground and allowed the European game to be played there- it wasn't a GAA decision, but one local club being a good neighbour, and fair play to them.

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Again, a Galway fan can confirm no doubt, but if I recall correctly it was a community owned ground, not a GAA ground. Hence there was nothing the GAA could do to stop it except put pressure on the community that controlled it.

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Originally Posted by Harpsbear

racist chanting...as I have done at Finn Harps.

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What a load of bull! There was never any racist chanting at Finn Park ffs. Again, your facts are wrong.

Anyhow, I'm not going to take this thread off-topic. As a GAA-man myself and someone who follows the Green and Gold all over the place, I would class myself as an equal fan of both.

Sickens me to see bigots on both sides, but you're always going to get that. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned how they weren't allowed play soccer at primary school - that practice was in place only seven years ago when I was at primary school.

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Originally Posted by Galway Harps

How many of these things did you actually SEE though? You left Harps before most of this ever happened- then when the incidents took place used them as stick to beat the club with. As far as I can tell you finished supporting Harps because nobody gave your crusade against our financial controller the time of day.

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Galway Harps dont try to force me into 'hijacking' this thread as you'll know doubt claim i have or will your fellow Harps support. Whether I was there or not is absolutely irrelevant. What is relevant that this happened.If I were to attend a GAA club I wouldn't have to witness such incidents. My 'crusade' as you call it is not individual centred. Surely you've realised by now I'm highlighting the faults of the club and not those of an individual. As it happens I was there the night the head steward was thumped at Finn Park. A steward thumped. Not regular behaviour at all.

Brendan

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Originally Posted by Harpsbear

Galway Harps dont try to force me into 'hijacking' this thread

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That will not be happening at all .... i have sent you a pm.

Clash I've read through this post and while I can understand your point of view, and I agree that it is unfortunate that these things happen, it is clear to any student of the social history of this island that this attitude is usually a cultural reaction amongst soccer fans to political favouritism towards the GAA at every level in this society and the attitude of most people involved at an administrative level in the GAA locally and nationally.
While I admit that there is merit in preserving any national game as part of our culture, political realism forces me to note that this does not happen here "for the good of the game". Irish politicians don't really car about any sporting organisation. It is based on habits in our mostly rural culture such as people voting for a particular party out of tradition etc. and our politicians either taking advantage of it or have been forced to realise that the GAA do have the power to influence voters locally and nationally. It is somewhat similar to the church in this country som years ago or the bible belt in the USA. It can influence people negatively or positively because of it's position. This influence has been on the wain in the last number of years along with the rural nature of our society, and with the improvments in the educational standard and recent scandals people would much rather make up their own minds than tow the party line but it's not gone yet (unfortunately).
The anti-everything mentally in the GAA has been on the wain as well but considerably more slowly.

I'm from one of the most rural GAA dominated areas of the country (no soccer team within 20 miles for nearly 30 years until recently... v. funny story also relevant) and I enjoy the GAA but the anti GAA mentality you speak of is almost certainly amongst the supporters as a reaction to perceived (actual) injustice. Every club or league that I have been involved with (and I've been involved with many, both in the League of Ireland and in local football) the administrators always actively encouraged participation in other sports up to the point where contracts were signed and sometimes even beyond this. I've been involved with a few GAA clubs (and one county team) and I can tell you that it is not reciprocated.

And to second a point made earlier which absolutely sums up the differnce in attitude between the administrators of GAA organisations and Football ones.

"The result was announced"

If you think that you have ever heard a soccer result announced at a GAA match I would be extremely surprised.

I finish by issuing a challenge to anyone here who wishes to take it up.

Go to your local GAA comittee members and suggest to them that research has shown that it would be advantageous to their young players to play other sports for developmental purposes especially field games (this is a scientifically proven fact by the way) and they should encourage lads to play other sports like soccer etc.
Then do the same at a soccer club tell me what the different reactions are.

Having played and been involved in both games over quite a few years I am disappointed that so few of you have any real knowledge of what the position is today. Most of the quotes relate to the ban and attitudes and issues which existed over 30 years ago.
I can tell you that for many years now Longford National schools are proud to have soccer, GAA and basketball teams represent them. In most cases it is the same teachers/parents who look after the different teams. It is well recognised that without the support of GAA fans Longford Town would not be able to exist. At any high profile games at Pearse Park Longford representatives of longford Town are guests in the VIP area. At Longford Town matches it is not unusual to see the GAA County chairman and other senior board members in attendance.
Longford GAA clubs were to the forefront of the fight to remove the ban in the early seventies and Longford was one of the counties who proposed and actively fought for the opening of Croke Park.
While I would not have any great regard for the authorities at the head of either the GAA or the EL, I am delighted to be in a county where, for the most part, supporters of both codes are more broadminded and forward thinking then those who have been posting to this topic on this forum.
Get a life fellows.;)

Observer, if you read the thread properly, you'll see most are looking for a situation to arise like the one you describe, but it is the xception that proves the rule. Good On Longford GAA...

Excellent post GroundFootball

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Originally Posted by observer

Having played and been involved in both games over quite a few years I am disappointed that so few of you have any real knowledge of what the position is today. Most of the quotes relate to the ban and attitudes and issues which existed over 30 years ago... Get a life fellows.;)

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Having actually read the thread, I'm disappointed that you've mistaken people's recent experiences of attitudes that still persist in some circes for 30 your old irrelevancies.

Just to add a perspective from another club...

I've been playing with the GAA club in bray since i was 8 or 9, and a wanderers fan since the same age. the gaa club have progressed hugely in that time not because of any massive funding or anything, but because there are enthusiastic people who care about the game and the club. in contrast, wanderers have been (relatively) stagnant because the same people have alwasys been in charge with few new ideas.

i have problems wiht what goes on at the higher levels of both the GAA and the FAI, but i dont think we can blame the problems of one on the other, or vice versa. if your El club isn't getting much support, its not because people are being told by their GAA club not to go down. its because there's nothing attracting them to the EL. ditto if kids aren't playing GAA its not because soccer is 'stealing' them, its because they kids are watching the premiership and the local gaa club isnt making itself known.

and the two can co-exist: a couple of years ago our ladies GAA team won a cahmpiosnhip-league double, we were invited down to the next wanderers game and presented with an award on the pitch at half-time, this was then acknowledged in the gaa pages of the local paper. you see plenty of people from the gaa club down at the carlisle every week.

its not about the organistations - its about the clubs.

and just to reply to bald student's point about invitations to play ladies gaa in landsdowne road - i've never heard about this but it couldnt happen anyway, we play on exactly the same sized pitch as the men