Fine - but let them stop with all the bleeding heart "ohhh, but we're a new team" ballax then !Quote:
Originally Posted by Raheny Red
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Fine - but let them stop with all the bleeding heart "ohhh, but we're a new team" ballax then !Quote:
Originally Posted by Raheny Red
I hate this kinda crap going on, which seems to be almost every second post about our club on this site. The simple facts of the case are that we are not Home Farm.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Every single Dublin City fan on this site had there first experience of the club well after (at least three years) after the change from Home Farm, so i don't feel i have to justify anything to anyone, i picked my club to support based on basic geography (round the corner from where i lived at the time) and on pure entertainment factor. (I'm one of those who were enticed by a free night out, it does work).
If Mr Seery pulled a fast one to get his "franchise" into the league, the fact is that he was allowed, so therefore in my estimation, the league (the member clubs are the league) are as responsible for admitting this "franchise" as he is.
Every club in the league can voice their opinion on any matter at any time at league management meetings. If they didn't that's they're fault. They represent your clubs as well as ours, so stop bitching at us, we had nothing to do with it, its your clubs reps to the League who passed the whole thing.
I know what you mean Bref....everytime I open my mouth to say something positive about the Mons I get the same sorta crap. Its a petty but when some of them grow up they will realise that.
Dont flatter yourself. Its not personal. Its just your 2 clubs shouldnt be in the league and would be better served at the non league level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicme
KOH
If they're facts, please explain - with dates and events....Quote:
Originally Posted by Breifne
Ballax- he DIDN'T pull a fast one. He just made a name change to an existing team, which is perfectly withion the rules ! No motion went before the League saying 'Home Farm are leaving now, and I want to replace them with a new club called Dublin City'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breifne
The 'Home Farm' name proper disappeared from senior football in Ireland at the end of the 1994/5 season. At that point, Seery changed the name of the club to 'Home Farm Everton' - to reflect your associations with that English club.
When that relationship came to and end he changed the name of the club from Home Farm Everton to 'Home Farm Fingal' for the 1998/9 season, to try to tap into that large demographic area.
Then he stumbled upon another idea, and changed the name of your club from Home Farm Fingal to 'Dublin City' in 2001/2.
On none of those 3 changes did he AT ANY POINT say to the league that he was introducing a different club. They were presented to the Eircom League as merely name changes. There was therefore no decision for the League to take. It was the same as EMFA changing to 'Kilkenny City' in 1989/90, or 'Newcastle United' becoming 'Newcastle West' in 1986/7. All were presented to the league as nothing more then NAME CHANGES.
STOP DELUDING YOURSELVES !!!! It's only Dublin City fans who seem to think you're a new club. No-one else buys this - and neither does Seery, judging by the fact he registered you with the league as only a name change. It's the same CEO and the same league slot right the way through. How exactly does that make you a new club ??
You're claiming you're a new club for strategic reasons - as that makes it much easier to present yourself to people for fundraising, rather than admit you've been around in senior football under various names for over 30years and have hardly rocked the world. Stop deluding yourselves, and then you'll find that a lot of the criticism of your club disappears.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
Yawn....anyone else bored of this yet??
I've never read of anyone questioning Monaghan United's place in the league (ignoring NY Hoop's response above).Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicme
The 2 teams are clearly very different. Monaghan were elected as Monaghan United, and have been in the league continuously as that team since 1985.
You can go all the way back to Drumcondra FC's election into the league in 1928/9 to find the origins of Dublin City. Drumcondra were replaced in the league in 1972/3 by 'Home Farm Drums' - playing in the same stadium. Hoem Farm Drums changed their name to 'Home Farm' the following season, and went through a further 3 name changes since then to become Dublin City. However - their fans have deluded themselves that they are somehow a new team - despite the fact their own CEO only registered with the league for yet another name change in their long history. They now parade this 'new team' mantra around as a badge of honour and a justification for their limited resources, whilst their CEO uses it to attract support and fundraising.
The comparison of Monaghan with Dublin City is therefore light years apart...
The above info regarding Dublin City is FACT ! If anyone wishes to disagree with them, please do so with FACTS - not emotional ballax.
Does the eL section moderator do any work at all?
Thanks Steve but have had it from others. But hey thats life as a footie fan, you all ways run into some guff from other fans....all part of the fun!
"Dublin City aims for Europe"
:D :D :D
Dublin City go nowhere, as they don't exist.
Meanwhile in 11 months, the only place Home Farm are going, is the First Division!!
At least we've a chance, you'll be in the LL by next season.:p. We existed for the play off's:pQuote:
Originally Posted by mypost
The LL is where your club belongs. You cant deny that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo
KOH
Where your logic falls down Steve is that Drumcondra, Home Farm and DCFC are now clearly three seperate clubs so new clubs must have formed at some stage.
The old Home Farm split into two seperate clubs a few years ago. The junior set up kept the name Home Farm and the senior set up kept the league place and changed its name eventually to Dublin City. To argue wheather that is a new club or an old club is arguing over semantics. This argument might have been interesting a few years ago when the changes were going on but is is old now. DCFC are in the league and in the premier on footballing merit.
I've NEVER said that Dublin City don't deserve to be in the Premier on-merit, as they clearly do. What I am saying is that - if the club and its fans insist on pretending for their own purposes that they aren't Home Farm under another name (and the continuity of league place can only suggest that they are) then that questions their right to be in the league on administrative and legislative grounds - not on-the-pitch merit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Student
They're different clubs only in so far as, for example, a person changing their name and image is a different person. Jordan is still Katie Price, for example, and can't erase that part of her history. She wasn't magically born afresh in her late teens. Just like Dublin City didn't magically appear from nowhere 4 years ago. They had a previous life as 'Home Farm lots of things' from which there is a clear line of continuity. And who's to say they won't change name again at some point ?
If it's the same person (Seery) doing the same thing (football) with the same league place, and pretty much everything else is the same bar yet another name change- then it's clearly the same club.
Kilkenny City don't pretend they didn't exist prior to their name change from EMFA in 1989 ! This Great Gatsby-esque idea of changing the name of a club and hoping it erases all your previous history is just frankly ridiculous ! Dublin City did not just magically appear in 2001 - they have a past under a number of different names ! Dublin City fans choose to ignore this as it suits them and their CEO to do so.
And it's not just a question of semantics. If you accept that a club becomes a totally separate and new club purely by renaming itself - without having to leave and rejoin the league - then that's a recipe for disaster. Get into trouble with the league and have an impending points deduction ? No problem - just change your name and claim that it was all the previous team, not you.....
Ok, here goes...Alright DCFCSteve Dublin City FC is exactly the same club as Home Farm/Home Farm Everton/Home Farm Fingal ok?
So how about you F U C K OFF now eh?
(god I'm so glad I got that off my chest, these past four years of deluding myself has really been hard, I feel like a new man, like a heavy burden has been lifted from my shoulders, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc)
The dawning of reality :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Maynard
Think I've just found myself a new signature..... :p
No Steve, a club becomes a totally seperate club by seperating itself totally from the club it was prevoiusly a part of. The issue of avoiding sanctions does not arise here because when Home Farm split into two clubs the senior set up took the points and league postition that Home Farm had at the time. The reason I dismiss this argument as semantics is because we all agree on the facts of what actually happened we only disagree on what terms to use to describe it.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
One thing I do find particularly disengenuous is the "Founded 2002" on DCFC's crest. The club was clearly founded a few years before that but changes it's name to DCFC in 2002.
So why did that totally separate club not register itself as such to the league ? It only requested a change of name - not status.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Student
Regardless - at the very least Dublin City began life as Home Farm Everton in 1995. So no matter what why you look at it, Dublin City CANNOT factually claim that it didn't exist prior to 2002.
Because the league is only interested in the senior set-up of the club, where there was continuity. As an analogy, UCD's Men's and Women's clubs are currently administrated seperately. If we were to merge at some point in the future it should not affect UCD's league position, similarly if UCD's men's club decided to split into two new clubs (say seperate senior and intervarsity clubs) both sets of teams should be allowed to remain in their respective leagues despite the fact that at least one club, if not both, are 'new'.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
We'll agree on that point anyway, it's clearly done for marketing purposes. It's a white lie to promote the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
You're losing me a bit here Bald Student.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Student
It was only the 'senior' Home Farm club that was ever in 'senior' football - so the junior branch splitting off from them made no difference whatsoever to their senior status. Hence the ongoing senior club still claimed Home Farm's senior heritage (e.g. 1974 FAI Cup winners) as it was the same club before and after FROM A SENIOR PERSPECTIVE. The junior perspective is irrelevant to a discussion about senior clubs in a senior league. Your the one who's being semantic here.
I think we both are and that's the point. We agree 100% on the actual facts of what happened we only disagree on wheather DCFC should call itself a new club. I believe they can because when one club splits in two, one of the two clubs must be 'new'. You believe thay can't because there is still a direct line linking the current DCFC team to teams that played decades ago. I think this discussion is a semantic one because we agree on the facts we only disagree on what language should be used to describe them.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Thats grand ,so we all agree now that Dublin City is a new Club, great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Student
What DCFCSteve is trying to say I think, is that -despite the fact they kept the Home Farm moniker- the junior side is the actual new club in theory. Of course you can question if that was not just an administrative trick to avoid Dublin City having to be re-elected... Who splits off from who, that's the main question.
I could be wrong, but the current LSL club Drumcondra FC (who play at the grass field opposite of Tolka Park) are also somehow linked to Home Farm and Dublin City, aren't they?
:eek: Noooooooooo!!! Bad enough that we had two Home Farms at one point, now we're gonna have two Continuity Home Farms?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerrit
The re-foundation of Drumcondra FC (as a split-off of Home Farm or not, I don't know) was before the rise of HF Everton/Finglas/DCFC , or at least so I was told by one of their players who regularly drank in Tolka's social club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub
That's something I'd be more worried about. I hope it stops when the new season starts!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerrit
I refered to a Drumcondra FC player, not a DCFC player. Drumcondra FC from the LSL, players at that level are supposed to drink at games, that's their core motivation for playing ;)
Ahhhh - no...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo
If you read the previous page, you'll see that Bald Student agrees you became a new club in 1995 - when the junior side of Hoem Farm split from you and you became Home Farm Everton; then Home Farm Fingal in 1999, and then finally Dublin City in 2001.
So at the very least everyone agrees that you've existed since 1995 and had previous Home Farm mainfestations.
Even Maynard agreed ! :D
Anybody know why this has spilled to 6 pages & countin? We seem to be goin in circles with questions & answers mostly. Dublin City FC are a force to be reckoned with, now if that's not 'new'.. I dont know what is... :D
Seriously though, for a football club with valiant ambitions & a mere 4 yrs of semi-success behind em could be a contributin factor of other fans slaggin us. Im I wrong? Is there also a hidden threat innervasion? If the other fans had to change situations & like us they found a team that started up & felt it was the team to support I wonder would they change their tune. Speakin of which,
dcfcsteve... any chance of givin us our Molly back? ;)
Because Dublin City fans are fantasists, and refuse to accept the clear fact that your club is mor than4 years old.Quote:
Originally Posted by blueviking1980
Ireland faces a greater threat of amphibious invasion by the Swiss navy than Dublin City poses a footballing threat to the other Premier Division Eircom League clubs :D And there you go again with the Great Gatsby-esque delusion of being only 4 years old. Hello !!! You go back AT THE VERY LEAST to 1995 as Home Farm Everton. Keep up....:o And what's "innervasion"...?Quote:
Originally Posted by blueviking1980
Ther reason why you get so much slagging is that Seery's been whorring the whole 'brand new club' ballax around so much for his own marketing purposes that Dublin City fans themselves have bought into the delusion hook, line and heavy-bit. If you weren't all spouting deluded sh!te, you wouldn't get the abuise. Simple as.
Happily. Now what the feck is it......? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Blueviking1980
Our song Molly Malone that u's lot somehow have... :mad:
That was meant to be "Innervation"... long day, stop.. :o
is it not a bit like saying that the Pd's were founded in early 1900's , because it is a continuation of Sinn Fein? They are not a new Party, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
As I've said before its because Dublin City are obviously now the Big Club in Dublin :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by blueviking1980
Roddy Collins thinks its the best club to invest in , according to the Star on Sunday:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo
To quote the guy from the Amstel Ad : "Ahhhhhh - no !"........Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo
If the PD's had kept all Sinn Fein seats etc, then your example would work. But then it would've clearly been just a name change.
A better example would be when Labour in Britain decided to become 'New Labour'. New name, same party, same position as before.
Or an even better example would be when Sean Coombs decided to become 'Puff Daddy', and then 'P Diddy'. They weren't 3 different people - just 3 different names for the same thing....
Stop the self-delusion guys - this is getting very tedious....
Well Roddy's usually right, and has proven himself to be shrewd when previously advising people on where to invest in football (e.g. Carlisle).... ! :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo
Think you just under cut your entire arguement.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
New Labour was a name change. There was one party before, there was one party afterwards.
Home Farm splitting into the schoolboy / junior club and the entity now known as Dublin City for Senior football was one club becoming two clubs.
The wool pulled over the eyes i spoke off earlier was in regard to the initial breakaway, Ronan obviously felt that his options were easier to tell a few white lies to the eircom League at the time. he must have, he got away with it. I'm sure that if you had to investigate the entry of every club into the national league at the time of their entry it would have some suspect dealings.
this was done ten years ago, and Dublin City are now in the league, deal with it.
Calendar of events
1994
Home Farm compete in Schoolboy / Junior & Senior Competitions
1995
Home Farm compete in Schoolboy & Junior Competitions
Home Farm Everton (breakaway section) compete in Senior Competitions
1995-2001
Home Farm compete in Schoolboy & Junior Competitions
Home Farm Everton change name to Home Farm Fingal and eventually Dublin City.
2001 - present
the breakaway section (new club) compete moderately successfully in the eircom League as Dublin City.
Dublin City have their roots in Home Farm, this is undeniable, but they are a completely different club to Home Farm now.
Home Farm retained ownership of ALL assets, Dublin City rent Whitehall from Home Farm. Therefore seperate club.
it was a split , wiith Home Farm. They own Whitehall, we just rent it, they can't take back the licence. the company that has the licence has no connection with home farm.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
This is f@cking madness...I think we've found a person who actually spends more time thinking about Dublin City then any of the season ticket holders on this site...very, very sad. I guarentee you the year that Dublin City FC finish 2nd in the Premier Division and win the League Cup I won't give 2 sh1ts about any newly promoted club that is no threat to me whatsoever. I PROMISE!
So can all the deluded DCFC fans and your arch-fantasist CEO please, please, PLEASE stop pretending that your club is only 4 years old and had no existence prior to 2001!!! It's very clear that you've been the same club since at least 1995, and it's very, very dull to pretend otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breifne
Dublin City fans are the Eircom League's eqivalent of Luke Skywalker in 'The Empire Strikes Back' - dangling over the edge of a precipice and refusing to accept the factual reality that Home Farm 'Darth Vadar' Everton is their father.... :)
Just accept your history, and then we can all get onto discussing interesting topics instead. Phew.....