The view from behind, that ball looked as if it came off the midriff and on to the arm. Is that still a penalty if ball is goal bound? For all the years watching football and this stuff confuses.
Ok we really should be at about 2-5, post twice, missed penalty, the sitters 2nd half...when your luck is in...
I honestly think if we lost that game we couldn't have had too many complaints. And yet, we won and played some nice stuff at times too. I still don't think the starting setup was right, but maybe the number of injured centre mids we have right now contributed to that call.
Finland are probably the highest ranked team we've done the double on in a group for a long, long time.
It's still not great, but it's a huge step forward from the Kenny era.
Pretty grim stuff in some ways (gave it away far too easily in our own half), but a couple of years ago we were losing these matches by the odd goal, not winning them.
If ever there was evidence that lucky generals exist then that was it. As bad as any performance in the last few years but what matters is the result and this time it was in our favour.
Will lost by 5 or 6 to England without a dramatic improvement. Knight suspended for it too. Expect Cullen, Molumby and Azaz to start that one.
any kind of win is welcome at this stage. we could have shipped a few but could have scored a couple more ourselves. kelleher has really come on in the last year or so and is a huge asset.
shocking stuff if we are honest , we are so far off being halfway decent it isnt funny
Have tickets for the rigby tommorow and am looking forward to watching an ireland team that look like tjey give a **** and actually might win against a team ranked xxx in the world
I’m definitely in a minority here it seems but I was never really worried at all in that second half. Even when waiting for the (inevitable) penalty award, I was sure we’d go back up the pitch and win it. They had chances, fair enough, but I thought we looked very comfortable. First half was different, weird half, they should have scored a couple but we played some good stuff too and did actually score.
Bit harsh to say th dont give a ****. We obviously lack confidence as much as ability throuhout the squad - rushing passes out of the block, i was relieved a few times when they just went long down the line, charging in to a block that was never on too. There was something riding on this game, must not lose, and played in a must not make a mistake way rther than with any freedom. It wouldnt surprise me to see a better general performance against England in a dead rubber for us, there wont be a result but its a good opportunity to build the rebuilt rebuild!
I never took you for a Rugger head sbgawa, you day-tripping barstool bandwagoner. Though you may have said you said you grew up near to AIL clubs in the past?
Main positive takeaway for me is how they saw out the game from the 85th minute. Really mature and made all the right decisions. The impact O'Shea had on the team was immense and I feel he's crucial for us. Agreed that I never worried in the 2nd half and yeah, huge step in the right direction from the Kenny era.
One thing I did like was that we seemed much more purposeful when we did have the ball. It didn't always work but we were trying to advance the ball up the pitch a lot faster than we have been in recent years. Plenty of attempts to get the ball in the box as well. None of the pointless dicking about with the ball at the back that was a hallmark of the last few years.
I don't think there was a moment where we passed the ball straight to a Finn and left them straight in on goal. That's almost a ridiculous thing to even have to say, but we've done it so often in the last couple of years that it's worth noting that we didn't tonight.
Looking ahead to the England game and with Knight now gone as well we're going to be desperately short in midfield. Cullen, Molumby and Azaz will all have to start, but that just leaves Moran to cover from the bench. There will have to be one more call up to replace Knight at a minimum, Coventry is probably the most likely and a reasonable chance he will get his debut off the bench on Sunday.
Bunch of moany cnuts on here to be honest. We got a win and the mood is still just constant negativity.
It wasnt brilliant, but we got a win in a game we didnt play very well. How many times in recent years have we played much better and lost games with stupid mistakes or shots from outside the box. They put us under pressure in 2nd half and they got a break with the penalty but, other than that Kelleher wasnt exactly making save after save. We did look dangerous enough going forward at times too and with some better decision making at times we might have created a bit more. We also went into preserving the lead mode towards the end so of course they were the ones putting us under pressure as the game wound down.
Massive positive for Ferguson to score, and an excellent strikers goal it was. The hang time was class and it was the perfect ball by Johnston to him. I thought Collins was excellent throughout but other players had good moments and bad during the game. Festy for example looked brutal at times, but he also did scare them with his pace.
I thought Azaz was very good when he came on. For me he'd have to start against England. Id add him to the midfield as part of a 3. The 2 man midfield just isnt enough and I thought both Knight and Cullen were crap.
A win is important, we've too much of a habit of losing or drawing close games. We have players to still come in and improve us over the next year or so. Im happy to take the postives where they are, and if we cant be happy with winning a game then whats the point!
Yep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Can I ask all to go to youtube and search for Ireland Finland 2020 and watch the highlights from the two one nil defeats. Then go watch the highlights from tonight and post match interviews. The difference in attitude, belief, body language, personnel and most importantly, THE RESULT tonight....come on. We were at absolute rock bottom. I always felt we'd win tonight. Everything is changed, utterly.
It's far from perfect, we all know that, but it's so much better it's unreal. Fantastic to get another win and we have some absolute gems in this team.
Delighted.
I think the big difference is that while we were lucky last night (and the reality is that we were lucky), it was partly because we gave ourselves a chance to be lucky.
The change for me is that under the previous manager, and also the caretaker period, we just weren't giving ourselves a chance at all. We were ponderous in attack, hardly created any chances, but were also wide open at the back, and especially susceptible to long shots. There's a narrative that we were unlucky then, but we weren't really, we just never gave ourselves a chance due to the tactics being so poor and unsuited to the players we have.
We were still lucky last night, because we're still giving up chances. And that will continue to be the case until we adequately resource the centre of midfield. But at least we're more purposeful going forward and actually giving ourselves a chance by putting the ball in dangerous areas.
Just taking the goal last night, if that had been a year or two ago that ball would have just been played back outside the box again, the cross wouldn't have gone in and the attack would have just broken down. That's the area we have improved the most in under Hallgrimsson. Previous to this it really does feel like that game would have been a draw or a narrow loss, and after the game we'd be yet again hearing about narrow margins, 14 injured players (which is what we currently have) and how unlucky we are. Sometimes you make your own luck.
Thanks for this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
HH finds ways to win, not the exact opposite.
I actually believe if they had scored the peno we would have got another goal and won it anyway.
Btw Nathan Collins was man of the match. He was amazing.
Sums it up really. Unlucky many times before, lucky tonight. Happy with the result, not the performance. Learn and move forward.Quote:
"Yes, happy with, of course, winning," said Hallgrimsson, speaking at the post match press conference.
"It's always good, not only the points, but I think psychologically good to have a win, good to give the fans a win here at home is a good feeling."
"Performance, some good, some bad and surely we were lucky - they hit the post twice and Caoimhin saved a penalty," he added.
"But I think this group of players probably deserve luck. They have been unlucky many times, so probably they deserved a little luck.
"But of course happy with a lot of things, but we are under no illusion that we need to play better than we did today."
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2024...e-finland-win/
Yeah, it's a fair summary. I'd definitely prefer to be winning games and feeling lucky about it than what went before. I think he has to realise we can't cope with two small lads trying to manage the midfield. Johnston was stepping in to make a third a lot of the time be he looked completely lost. Azaz looked a lot more confident coming on last night, he's in good club form and if he brings that across he could become a real option in there. At least has a bit more physicality about him, even if he's still a very attacking player.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Yep, I think that's spot on. And I think it's ok to say it. RTÉ sum it up as "The truth is Ireland were second best and rode their luck, but the Boys in Green will take that" and that's a similar view.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
I don't agree with the after-betting - the idea that we wouldn't have worked the goal under Kenny, or that we would have gone on to win even if they'd scored the penalty. I think it's outcome bias to a large degree. It was a Finland team in decline and we scraped past them. "Stephen Kelly says it is "worrying" the amount of chances Ireland coughed up in the game given the step-up in quality England will be on Sunday" is on the RTÉ site too and I think it's fair.
And for all that, we've been a side in need of a win or two of late, so we certainly can't sniff at two in a month. If it gives the side a bit of Iceland Tournament confidence, I'm all for it. (On Eirambler's point, based on Eloratings I think it's the best double we've achieved since beating Turkey home and away in Euro 92 qualifying. Of course, World Cup/Euro qualifying doesn't give you many games at your own level so that stat is probably less surprising than it sounds)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I can't see this at all. Still largely the same bunch of useless players. We're going nowhere.
Interesting looking at the whoscored ratings (and as always, don't take them as gospel, but they're objective and can raise a point or two all the same) - they have Kelleher as man of the match,which is completely fair. 8.3 rating.
Next three are Scales, Collins and O'Dowda, all around the 7.6 mark. Scales and Collins again - reasonable. (And when your keeper and two centre-backs are your top players, it tells you a bit about how the game went). But O'Dowda? I was a bit worried when he got booked after five minutes, and Finland in the first half seemed to make good progress down his side. I think their attacks in the second half came more down our right, leaving O'Dowda freer to get forward more, which is arguably playing to his strengths.
Not sure how he'll cope v England when we will be defending a lot, but certainly was an improvement on his last game for us (which was the one in Greece I think). I suspect Coleman has played his last game for us, and McClean presumably has as well (though wouldn't say never with him), and as the wing-back options dwindle it becomes more important to find someone who can play there...
At the other end of the scale you have Cullen (6.0) and Festy (6.4 - not a particularly bad rating, but I think as others here said, he had some good flashes through the game without a huge amount of end product)
No need for the faux outrage. Most people are more or less saying the emboldened. Calling people cnuts is yobbish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
But you have to be happier about it, Snapshot, lest you make RLP cry.
I'll take a ropey win. For too long we were unlucky, game after game. You're unlucky often enough and becomes clear it's not luck.
I would disagree fairly strongly with that. I think we're getting much better in possession by being that bit more direct. Out of possession the issues remain at this point alright - we're too easy to play through and our defenders are left too exposed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightstory
I was wondering if the Manning for Johnston sub near the end might point towards an option for Sunday - starting both O'Dowda and Manning on the left, one in front of the other. I don't think either is strong enough defensively to play left back against England, but possibly if you started Manning left mid in front of O'Dowda (or the other way around) one would be able to give the other some protection in a way that Johnston just can't/won't against that level of opposition. So something likeQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
-----------------Kelleher
O'Shea Collins Scales O'Dowda
-----------Cullen Molumby
------Szmodics Azaz Manning
----------------Ferguson
A win is a win - and that is something that was very hard to do under Kenny - however - we were dominated by Finland throughout the entire game and should have lost it. That is very concerning because the Irish players play at a far higher level than most of the Finnish squad.
You expect to see progress - but there was no progress here.
It we play the same way against England on Sunday it could get very embarrassing.
It wasn't great, but it was a win, I'll take that in this economy. Could have been 2/3 down before we scored if Finland took their chances mind, so although I want to be positive, small margins and it could have been a disaster, the save from Collins was excellent tbf! Wembley will be awful, I struggle to see us coming out of there feeling good about anything, but let us all hope we get a very winnable tie in the playoffs and use it as the real starting point to build confidence and momentum.
Matt Doherty was grand!
except when we scored the only goal and forced 7 corners (to finlands 5)! we must have done something right with those stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
except for the 10 mins before our goal I felt comfortable enough tbh
felt we broke well at times with some smart passing and little flicks putting players in a bit of space.
the reaction to the performance last night is very predictably overly negative
I could use a good cry tbh, it's been a rough couple of weeks in this part of the world with the election and everything. I could tell you more but you'd only end up deleting the post for being off topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
We were lucky to get away with the win, but I think a lot of the issues were self-inflicted (tactical and individual) rather than Finland being better. We're about the same level as them, so it's good to beat them twice.
Szmodics was lively as ever and I think he should start most games from now on. He's the sort of player who will go on a run of scoring once he gets off the mark.
I was impressed by Scales, who seemed more aggressive than usual and clearly got the memo from HH calling up Duffy for more "steel".
Johnston redeemed himself with the assist, but he almost cost us with some schoolboy stuff, taking too many touches and turning into traffic at the edge of his own box then nearly injuring his own team-mate. Just before the goal (which he did brilliantly for) I was so frustrated that I thought he needed to be taken off at half-time. Better teams punish those mistakes.
I don't think Cullen is mobile enough to cover the ground needed in a two-man midfield and he is clearly much better anchoring a three. He did a bit better in the second half, but there were a lot of gaps and, with Festy given licence to go forward, Doherty was a bit exposed at times. We got away with it because it was Finland, but we definitely need three in the middle vs England otherwise they will mangle us.
Kelleher really looked solid too. I think he is clearly a better option than Bazunu going forward, but he really needs to be playing regularly.
In terms of managing the game, I felt we were a bit over-eager in the final five minutes, we gave the ball back to them a few times looking for a second goal when we should have been taking the temperature down.
Going back to two-in-the-middle, you really need players with an engine and athleticism. We obviously don't have anyone at his level, but I'd love a player in the mould of Roy Keane or Tchouameni to come through. The type who gets about, wins tackles, intercepts the ball and can bomb forward too and spark attacks. Is Bosun Lawal in that mould? I can't think of too many off the top.
For HHs 4-4-2 I think you need two defensive midfielders playing as two 6s. Like he ain't everyone's cup of tea but Glen Whelan would have suited what HH wants. Knight doesn't because he's all action. Wants to get on the ball, press, and not disciplined enough to just sit and protect the defence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
Think we'll end up with the same issues last night playing Knight in a two man midfield if we played Lawal. He's not disciplined enough to play in a double pivot and can get caught ball watching. He's got positives going forward but will leave us overly exposed in midfield.
Though seeing how Stoke are using Moran this season maybe they'll play Lawal in a midfield two once he's fit again and we'll get a good chance to see how he gets on there. But on his pre injury form as a midfielder he's more suited to a three man midfield like Knight.
Good post. I had similar thoughts on the performances but was also impressed by Collins and thought O'Dowda far exceeded my expectations at LB. Azaz was a touch of class when he came on - and needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
In terms of your last paragraph, the attributes sound a lot like what Molumby can bring but I assume you are looking for someone who brings a bit more composure. Havent seen enough of Lawal play to comment but he is definitely a physical, strong, pacy midfielder. Connell has a bit more of a deep lying playmaker style about him and not as physical or quick but not glaringly weak in either category either. We just dont really have the obvious talent coming through there.
I had a generous amount of pints before the game in town, and as a result, I don't just remember too much of the game, and I think it's better left that way.
I had to squint through one eye to focus on Kelleher saving the penalty. So there's that much at least.
I don't think we are better than Finland, as it stands now it's quite the opposite, but somehow we managed to beat the better team both home and away (though that has merit in itself), the home win in no small part due to the performances of Kelleher, Scales and Collins - the last line of defense . There's an amount of pundits and Irish fans who have have a sense of entitlement that defies the reality. Finland are a much better organised team with players who are technically proficient, tactically have a plan and they put together some really good moves. I don't know why their coach didn't bring on Finland's talisman, Pukki, much earlier in both games because he still has that dynamism even in his supposedly declining years. I think in both games he came close to rescuing the game just by dint of his prowess in the few minutes he was played. If Finland had managed a draw or/and win these last two games I doubt if anybody could have claimed with any cred that we wuz robbed.
Midfield remains an enduring Achilles heel. A first team that picks itself looks a long way off as the squad is loaded with differently talented players of a similar standard. Somehow Heimar has to find his first team, the top reserves and formulate a gameplan for the next campaign, I think that he can do.
I thought molumby s hour at home to Greece was the best centre mid performance so far under HH. Disciplined good passing aggressive andvtried to be expansiveQuote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
I am a fan of Molumby and he brings what Trap used to call enthuasiamus to the team (Kenny, who made him captain of his U21s, described him as a "chaotic" player). His decision-making and passing is much better than he is given credit for but he does have a headless streak now and then. Would love to see him go up a level and I think he has it in him, but it needs discipline. I've not seen enough of Lawal either, but he looked heads and shoulders above the rest at League One level. As we know though, there's a big jump from there to Championship and again to international level.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
A lot of us have not yet come to terms with our new place in football's new world order. Robbie Brady made the point a few years ago that every game difficult for Ireland now.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
"People that want to see us playing football, enjoying the games, I see the lads saying, ‘Ah, it was enjoyable to play in the game tonight’, and then you are still going to have people giving out saying, ‘sh*te result again, probably the worst result in Irish history’.
And do you know what the thing is? No one is sh*te anymore. Honest to God, you play Qatar; technically, they’re unbelievable. I don’t know. You can’t please everyone. Everyone does their best."
Just so we understand the nature of this Finnish team - and they are not playing at the same level of the Irish players
We had five players playing at PL level (in reality it should have been six if O'Shea had started) - admittedly not all play regularly, but some do. Of the remaining Irish players, one is playing for the best team in Scotland and in the CL, three are playing for teams in the top six of the Championship, a fourth in the top ten. All are Championship level of higher. Of the subs, two are in the PL, and the lowest of the other three is 13th in the Championship.
Where do the Finish players play - one in the Bundesliga, one in the German second division, two in Poland, one in Greece, one in Holland, one in the Czech Republic, one for a team near the bottom of Ligue 1 (probably their best player), and three in America. Of the subs, one just promoted to Seria A with Venezia (currently bottom), one in the fourth tier in Poland, one in Finland, one plays for Exeter City and one in America. Not all of them are regular first-teamers. Two of the 16 are playing in the CL and only one is a regular (the goalkeeper).
Most of the Irish players play at a level significantly higher than the Finnish players - yet they were dominated by Finland for most of the game. You can talk about stats - and that Ireland got more corners - Finland had more possession, more shots, more shots on target, more touches in the opposition's box, fewer saves by the goalkeeper - they pressured the Irish players for the entire game and at times they passed the ball around at will with no Irish player able to get near them. Ireland won because Kelleher saved a penalty and the follow-up, because the Finns hit the post twice and because of Collins blocking shots. We won a game we should have lost and we were outplayed by a team that should have no ability to do so.
A win is a win - but the performance was as bad as any under Kenny - there was zero signs of progress - indeed it looks nothing more than a continuation of the poor performances when O'Shea was running the show.
Absolutely spot on. On current evidence HH is not the solution. Let’s see what happens tomorrow but if things persist at tgis shambolic level, we need to call time a lot more quickly than we did with Kenny.
I think that Kelleher / Collins / Scales triangle is the strongest part of our team.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Amidst all the negativity, Doc missed a sitter and Johnston nearly scored a trademark cut-inside goal, that just didn’t bend. I think their keeper did very well to make a full one handed stop late on when I was expecting it to fall to (didn’t see who) for a tap in.
Central midfield the big worry, as always.
I think it's only fair to balance JRG's post by pointing out that the Finland setup is a long established one, with a manager who has been there for eight years. So you are dealing with a side comprising - I agree - limited players, but who are very familiar with the setup they are going into.
Whereas we have a squad almost completely devoid of experienced players in the 30+ age group and a coaching setup that is only on it's fifth game. Also we are (very visibly) trying to completely unwind the previous three to four year period where we were taken completely in the wrong direction in terms of playing style relative to the skill sets of our players. And, even allowing for all that, we still beat them twice.
Personally, I don't think we should be jumping to conclusions on the new management setup either way at this point. For me, I like a lot of what I'm hearing in terms of the ideas behind what's being tried here - faster, more direct football that doesn't resort to kick and rush. What I'm seeing in the performances so far is more of a mixed bag, but it is still very early days.
Overall the Kenny era - especially the desperately poor last 12 months - and the shambles that was that O'Shea/McCarthy caretaker period that came after it are still fresh in my mind. Compared to both of those periods, we're already well ahead. But that's not saying a whole lot so it's not unreasonable to be aiming a bit higher than that at the same time.
Gary Bree’s analysis is good imho. On both the Indo Sport Podcast yesterday and an Indo article today, both saying same thing. Recognises it’s only 5 games and some personnel unavailable but there’s still no real sign of a philosophy or way of playing. Also questioned rationale of calling up Duffy (“not winning enough duels”) and not looking at McGuinness or O’Brien if that’s the case (which he disputes anyway). Says relying on 2 in CM is a worry. But he’s only mildly critical, not hysterically so. Likes HH’s honesty to the media. In the written article he says Wales seem to be responding immediately to Bellamy’s methods but says Bellamy had a head start, knowing all the players whereas HH should have had a longer lead-in, but FAI’s process took forever.