If I did what O'Shea has done here to my boss it wouldn't end up well for me. That said, Halgrimsson let O'Shea do this. He accepted a proposal from O'Shea for the England game that everyone knew was pants. He spent his time in the lead up to the game obviously preparing in the formation proposed. It proved to be pants and he has pivoted but he has had no time to pivot really and his plan B was to chuck on forwards and it backfired.
He is now left with two home losses by two goals each and the pair of them look rightly concerned in the dug out.
It stemmed from Browne chipping the ball straight into touch,14 seconds later the ball was in our net.Quote:
Originally Posted by liamoo11
The only thing that streams well on RTÉ player are the adsQuote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Can we get that Irish player of the match award binned ffs! Cringeworthy stuff!
have to stop this motm for a home player stuff. hugely embarrassing for all concerned
I don't care who the sponsor is.
I thought we got much worse when Molumby and Knight went off. Didnt understand leaving Browne on.
That 2nd half was awful. I was relatively enthusiastic after 1st half, but 2nd drained the life outta me
This team expects to lose and the only solution is get rid of dead wood. Doherty and Brady in particular should be gone. This has all been utterly shambolic. If it wasn't for the U21 game I'd have no hair left (I know it wasn't the result we wanted there either but at least they gave it a go until the last kick of the ball)
morale on the floor after these two games. difficult to see a path forward. we give away such cheap goals on what is now a customary basis.
Frustrating second half. Especially the lack of closing down for the first goal from players who should be better. Possibly Cullen being out didn't help there also.
A few strange subs also. Molumby has a lot more to offer than Browne so taking him off and keeping Browne on made no sense. Doherty coming on was out of necessity to have a full back who could attack when we were chasing the game. Always a high likelihood that would backfire though, he just isn't very good.
We've been dumped in a hole over the last four years through a combination of inept management trying things that could never work and the impact of having very limited players in the peak years of their careers. All we can do tonight is take the positives from the first half and see if they can be built on against Finland in what is now a massive game.
I said exactly what he did when his number came up to be subbed. Didnt make much sense, was passing well, playing bals that created some of the best 'chances', looked like he had plenty in the tank too. He wasnt at all happy going off!Quote:
Originally Posted by liamoo11
It feels groundhog day but as with SK building early on, the new man needs contact hours with the squad. There were glimpses of improvement in set pieces albeit less complex, beat the first man and balls whipped in. The difference was really the clinical finish compared to Browne blasting over the bar when similar space createdd edge of the box, one bad defensive decision to drop off and then caught out chasing the game with some laziness from Doherty not chasing back with Collins, a small number of errors work on cutting out overall. A late runner in to the box could have made something of Smallbones cutbacks, some anticipation.
I think we all knew it was a bit of arranging deckchairs on the Titanic but with a more pragmatic approach - there wasnt any heart attack football even playing it out from the back. Finland with a worse start so thats the bar to stay above....easy....
Essentially we’re really limited with what we can do given the midfield options we have, and there’s no way around that until better options emerge. The main job for this manager in the short term is to instil some confidence back into the team and root out the basic mistakes we keep making.
Ferguson looked rusty. Would have used Parrott instead... been playing more and was scoring a lot in preseason. I thought at the time that the manager threw too much at it in terms of substitutions, but at that stage it was probably worth a shot. Molumby off was odd - he played well. Doherty atrocious for the goal.
Robbie Brady playing all but 8 minutes of the 2 games really highlights how on the floor our options at full back are,Omobamidele doesn’t seem the answer at right back,Coleman and Doherty’s best days are behind them and at the other side what is coming through? O’Dowda or Scales could have been given 15/20 minutes but weren’t called upon at all,the bleakest area of the field for me which is saying something…..
I just watched the 2nd goal again. Doherty watched the man that scored just run past him, and instead of busting a gut back to try help Collins he didnt get past a jog. Absolutely infuriating and unforgivable. These are things that just shouldnt happen, and you'd hope Hallgrimsson takes a looks at it and says I dont want that type of player in my squad.Quote:
Originally Posted by joey B
Another failed campaign, a new manager stuck in a swamp of old ideas, and a team that is getting worse with every passing game.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
It's a case of "where is the tunnel" rather than where is the light at the end of the tunnel?
This may not be popular to say but I think we played some really nice football tonight.
It was more positive than I’ve seen us in years.
There’s a lot of work to do but I felt like there was more of a plan. And I preferred the formation too. Think it suits the players we have.
I think Doherty’s and Brady’s days are numbered. More so Doherty. Brady’s attitude is right but his best days are behind him.
Omabamidele at RB is not an option either.
I will say this once - when the f*ck will Irish defenders stop backing off a striker 20 yards out from the goal, allowing them an eternity to set up, pick their spot and strike the ball - and when the f*ck will a manager of the Irish team stop it from happening?
Omabamidele is a CB - he shouldn't be playing RB - O'Shea should have been the RB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
We did at times, I thought the first half was good and something to build on... but we didnt build on it in 2nd half of this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
The one big positive from tonight is that Hallgrimsson did what we all wanted and took charge. Hopefully he has learned enough to be more decisive in the next window.
The fact that two assistant coaches spent their careers in defense adds to how criminal this is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
Another thing I've noticed is that the team doesn't know what to do when we have a throw in. They almost always, always give it back to the opposition everytime. Surely this is something that could have been noticed and ironed out in training.
I haven't been this exasperated since a certain 5-2 defeat...
Remember these defensive coaches also picked Shane Duffy to start over O'Brien in the summer against Hungary, and also Doherty... both who were so bad they had to be pulled at half time.Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelmusic
Im hoping that Hallgrimsson will see through the nonsense now after being with them this week and maybe even look to bring in another coach that hes worked with in the past. It couldnt be clearer that keeping the boys on for jobs is a shambles, and the glimmer tonight as I said earlier is that we seen Hallgrimsson actually be the boss for the 1st time. I even liked how he spoke post game.
Thought it was a good first half - the better team for the majority of the half and very unlucky for the Ogbene goal to be just offside. Fine margins.
Haven’t watched them back, just in the stadium but thought both goals were really poor - thought there was some positional issues with midfield and one of O’Shea or Collins should get out and block the shot - reminded me of a tonne of goals we’ve conceded since Duffy has left the team. Similar to previous games against Greece, once they took the lead, they were happy just holding possession and seeing it out.
I felt the majority of the substitutions were mistakes. I would have taken off Browne instead of Molumby and Smallbone instead of Knight. Knight did himself no favours by getting booked for descent but he had much more left in his legs than Browne and Smallbone struggled dropping back.
Also I would have done Parrott instead of Idah and taken off Brady rather than Ogbene - Brady was knackered and had nothing left to give. As we mentioned before the game, it wasn’t helped by a lack of any midfielders on the bench - meant changes weren’t as simple as they could be.
As for the second goal, both Doherty and Collins switched off. Doherty let the runner go, Collins plays him onside and is slow to turn on the gas, does well to catch up but gets chopped too easy and Doherty hasn’t made the run back to cover.
The ground absolutely emptied out when that second goal went in. Haven’t seen it like that in forever.
Positives from tonight are largely the first half - Omobamidele did well at right back, apart from throw ins - I think they were just loading pace on our right to stop Tsimikas as much as possible . Smallbone was good in the 10 slot at times, knitting little passes to Ogbene. Ogbene had a good game, and dominated their best player. Knight was good. Szmodics is a good footballer and did well, maybe better playing off a striker that leading the line himself. Kasey McAteer showed a few bright moments.
Onto October - hopefully we will see a return of Cullen, McGrath, Azaz, Johnston and Cannon - and O’Brien will be pushing for a starting berth.
Where do you even start with that?
From the kick off we looked bereft of confidence.
But then we came into things a bit. Ogbene started running at them and had the beating of his full back in the air. Smallbone played a few neat and tidy passes in their half and Szmodics looked lively. Then the crowd started making a bit of noise and you could see a bit of belief creeping back into them.
I would have made a change before the half hour mark though. There were a couple of times the crowd were baying for the ball to go into the box but with Szmodics leading the line on his own there was nobody there to get on the end of a cross. I would have introduced Idah before the half hour mark.
Then the goal came.
Yet again we back off a guy on the edge of the box and give him the time and space to take a touch and pick his spot. Criminal defending.
Basic problems tend to have basic solutions. This will stop once we start dropping players over it, and that should start in October. Central defence is a position we have a bit of strength in depth in. We have options playing at a similar level to the established starters who have been waiting for a chance. Collins and O’Shea should both be dropped. Asking nicely clearly isn’t working.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
We huffed and puffed in the second half, but we never looked like scoring. By the last quarter of the game Smallbone looked a shadow of the man who was playing nice through balls in the first half.
Idah finally coming on with Robinson was our queue to try to beat the traffic. I was out of earshot before the Greeks got the second, but it was no surprise. There was a time not that long ago when you wouldn’t have dared leaving Lansdowne Rd if Ireland were chasing an equalisrer. It feels a lifetime ago now.
It felt to me that John O’Shea’s fingerprints were all over both team selections and performances. I would hope to see something very difference in October
Absolutely. I was screaming at the TV to close him down. Couldn’t get my head around them not getting in his faceQuote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
I hope that Kelleher was also doing this and continues to do this to better affect in future as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Funny thing is, had that been a Kenny performance we’d be saying yet again we let a game that had something to be taken from just slip away. Losing goals to shots from 20 yards, yet again. Like Didi Hamann used to say, we’re a team that just loses matches too easily and that’s still the case.
But because of the new manager we can put the spin on it that it’s an improvement. The shape looked good, we moved the ball well at times and although we didn’t create much it was generally cohesive and organised (until it wasn’t).
The fact remains that we routinely come out the wrong side of marginal contests while good teams like Greece do the opposite. Greece score from 20 yards, Browne forgets his technique and skies over from the same position, just like Molumby and Szmodics against England. I felt that Greece were just waiting for a good chance that they just knew would come, even while we were playing well. Both winning and losing are habits, which is why I’ve felt a spell in League C might be needed to generate confidence and momentum – if indeed we’re even good enough to win games in League C!
But carelessness and lack of incision aside, I thought there genuinely were good parts. Molumby played really well - in the first half at least. There was a spell on 20 and 21 minutes that was really accomplished progressive possession football. The switch to a back 4 worked well. Knight and Smallbone played well. Omobamidele looks confident again. We looked well balanced. We competed.
I do have to say though that had Bazunu conceded the first goal he’d be slaughtered here. Kelleher was perfectly positioned for the shot. He was only a few feet from his right hand post and he just waved it in. No?
I think the difference this morning is that, while the result is disappointing, I can see the logic to what we're doing now, whereas previously there was none. It felt like we were back at square one last night - but that's actually an improvement from where we were on Saturday and in the friendly games.
The frustrating thing is (and will probably continue to be) watching HH slowly learn things that a lot of us already know. It was clear we needed to switch to a four and that we needed to pack the midfield. But that also meant calling up another central midfielder or two - and yet we didn't do that. It was probably too late when Heimir figured it out.
I thought Omobamidele at right back was a decent idea. But I still think it would make more sense for O'Shea to be the centre back that moves out. Hopefully that will be learnt also.
Matt Doherty just doesn't have the heart for international football, I absolutely don't mean this in a negative way, but I'm fairly sure his brain is wired differently to a lot of us, there are a lot of red flags there. He doesn't have the natural reaction to think, "I've been caught out here, need to bust a gut now to get back and make up for it", it's just not how he sees the world I'd say. Unfortunately we probably just can't carry that at the moment and I struggle to see what useful role he could play for us from here.
If he gets back fully fit and playing I think we'll see Egan come back in. We need one older, experienced head to marshall the back line and he's probably more likely than Duffy...but much as I'm not a big fan I wouldn't 100% rule out a return for Duffy either. Once we're not playing out from the back the case for him does become stronger. He'd have closed down that shot for the first goal last night.
The other thing Hallgrimsson probably now realises, which we could have told him a month ago, is that he's very much on his own here. The last week has been very telling in terms of who has what role in the management setup. O'Shea probably isn't the biggest problem here, I just don't think he has the first clue about the tactical side of the game. But he'll support a manager, do a press conference and sound coherent, and generally won't be a nuisance around the place.
The bigger problem I think is probably McCarthy. He strikes me as a guy who has strong tactical views on football, just not the right ones for us. He'll have done his coaching badges, worked with youth players at Crystal Palace and assisting with the senior squad also and will have learned a certain fashionable way to set up a team and play the game. The problem I think is that he is like Kenny in that he doesn't understand why the tactics at a Premier League team like Crystal Palace won't work with the more technically limited group of players in the Ireland squad. And then has no idea how to change things to get the best out of a weaker group. I wouldn't be surprised if we see him move(d) on before too long and Heimir brings in someone who is a better fit for what needs to be done with this Ireland squad.
I am torn, I think it wasn't a bad performance generally, but the goals were stupid and avoidable, if both taken excellently, in a way we just never seem to. Pty about Chio's offside goal, it would have been wonderful. I think it was very marginally better than either of the Kenny v Greece performances. Agree with those basically saying HH needs to be ruthless, if people won't run or learn to close people down at the edge of the box they should watch some games from the sideline until they get it in to their heads. I don't think we're a mile away from something, but we really need a bit of luck to get on a run you'd imagine. Something like the Hungary friendly win, but when it matters.
I think Parrott not playing any minutes ahead of someone who hasn't played any football in half a year is mental.
We're not going to be at a stage where we can take anyone in league B for granted any time soon, everything needs to go right to get results these days, and we keep finding ways to lose.
Manager's take:
Manager Heimir Hallgrimsson says his team are lacking in confidence and that the Republic of Ireland shirt is metaphorically "too heavy" for some players.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football...s/cx29rl9zyxqo
Republic of Ireland 0-2 Greece: Irish shirt 'too heavy' for some players - Hallgrimsson - BBC Sport
After defeat by England on Saturday, the Republic of Ireland's difficult start to the Nations League continued as Greece ran out 2-0 winners in Dublin.
Fotis Ioannidis and Christos Tzolis netted for Greece after Chiedozie Ogbene had a first-half effort ruled out for the hosts.
The defeat was a fourth competitive loss in a row and means the Irish have only won three of their last 15 matches - with two those of those victories coming over minnows Gibraltar.
"It's a confidence thing. It feels like maybe the jersey is a little bit too heavy for some players," said former Iceland manager Hallgrimsson, whose first match in charge was the loss to England.
"When they put it on they don't maybe show the same quality as they do for their clubs. We just need to change that."
Hallgrimsson, who added he is a "sore loser", said he felt better about the organisation of his side in the first half against Greece, compared to the first 90 minutes of his reign against England.
He added that the Republic were "punished" for not taking their chances before Ioannidis' superb opener early in the first half.
"That happens to teams who are lacking confidence. It's the details in decision making, etc," said the 57-year-old.
"Greece are a team who are difficult to play against when they are one goal ahead.
"It was tough when we conceded the first goal because I thought we played pretty well until then. The first half was good in the eyes of organisation and compactness.
"We didn't give them chances and had really good options when we were going forward."
With fixtures away to Finland and Greece to come in October, Hallgrimsson said he needed to find a swift solution to the issues facing the Irish.
"The solution is to find these connections and the understanding between the players," he said.
"My job is to turn this around - nobody told me it was going to be an easy job.
"I know it is going to take time but I feel that the first step is positive. Even though we lost the two games I feel that the first step is positive."
Unfair to question the fitness levels? Molumby, Browne, Smallbone, and Knight all looked spent to me early on in the second half and needed to be replaced. Those players did cover a lot of ground and closed spaces in the 1st half, but still … The first half was good because we closed space + had a high intensity. Greece did have a lot of misplaced balls in the 1st because of our pressing. But maybe harsh to expect we can do 90mins of high intensity running.
Worth noting that both goals originated from almost the same spot, about a third of the way from the halfway line, in the Greek half of the pitch. For the first goal, someone (I think Molumby?) tried to put the ball out for a throw but it was intercepted, Greece got the ball out to their right, the Irish defence was still resetting, and Ioannidis had time to pick his shot. For the second, a quick throw is flicked behind the high line to release Tzolis.
A small thing I noticed was the ballboys were giving the balls back immediately to both sets of players for throw ins. They could have given it a beat before giving it back to the Greek players, just to give the Irish players an extra second to reset. I was sitting up from the corner flag on the far side, on the right as you watch it on TV, so I don't know if it was the same on the opposite side.
I'm not blaming the ballboys for the result, it's just a small thing I noticed
This aged badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
That first half was fine. Dull, lacking in cutting edge, but dominant in possession and making some chances with minimal risk. Ogbene was bright; that offside goal was a lovely finish too. Second half was awful. Worse, I don't think a single substitution improved things. Smallbone's movement was good though his passing was sloppy at times. Brady looked perfectly fine. Doherty was very poor though. I didn't think much of Molumby or Browne, but then we looked much flakier after Molumby came off so maybe I misjudged him. Or at least we didn't have a suitable alternative in Smallbone.
I think we're going to be **** until a midfielder worth a damn matures, but we can't keep giving away those soft goals from the edge of the box.
Return of Cullen may help, (re)introduction of Azaz maybe...
Johnston offers something different too.
I think Cullen will look a different player in a better resourced midfield. Should definitely be bringing McGrath and Azaz back in for cover there as well. If Lawal breaks into the Stoke first team after injury he's a cert for another call up sooner rather than later. Further forward a month should bring on Ferguson and there's Cannon to come back also.
At least in midfield and up front there are multiple options, even if they're not necessarily brilliant options. I think full back is probably the bigger issue, in terms of producing natural players in the position. On the right I think we've reached the end of the road with Doherty and Coleman is all but done as a starter, maybe still a useful bench option - I'd have rathered have him to come on last night than Doherty. But after that it's really all centre backs that can cover across - O'Shea, Dunne, Omobamidele etc., very limited natural full back options - Key and McNamara the only ones I can think of playing at a decent level.
Left back is similar, worse again if anything. O'Shea and Scales are centre backs that can cover. Brady sort of did a job last night. Roughan isn't ready. Need to push hard for Cirkin now maybe, he's not playing for England under 21. The two full back positions are going to have to be sorted out before we can hope to improve much.
I left last night after full time, and the dart had already filled from people who left after the second goal. We had to wait for the next one to arrive.
That's never happened before
Yeah, they poured out after the second goal. Partly it was timing, but people are definitely a bit fed up with the team.
There were a few boos at different points yesterday, but is it true that people booed Matt Doherty's introduction?
Big boos at Smallbone being announced MOTM too. What was that about?