And in Bohs speak that becomes "They're complete guesses?"
He's stopped now, but the figures up to this point we're all the proper figures.
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And in Bohs speak that becomes "They're complete guesses?"
He's stopped now, but the figures up to this point we're all the proper figures.
If you read it it does not say when he stopped. I never said complete I said guesses and well if they are not actual accurate figure well they must be a guess. Is that unreasonable?Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash/ED
I know when he stopped, it was when he stopped posting the figures. The UCD match and one other, the Drogheda one I think, are the only two league games without offical figures for Shels this season. He used to PM me and I'd put them on here, so all figures were offical bar UCD and Drogheda which he just didn't get.
Eitherway, by this stage of the season, the average would not change dramatically and it proves the original poster was talking b*ll*cks.
I think the Shelbourne figures are 100% accurate. After all, if there was any doubt they would only have to count the number of tickets to get the exact figure.................Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash/ED
What do you mean they don't sell tickets :confused: Well never mind, I think we can all trust Shelbourne :eek:
i'm sick of this absolute bs from shels re attendances - any fool can watch el weekly and see the facts - pats have been consistently getting over 1000 all season - even down the bottom of the league table - can anyone watching last nights 1 man and a dog fest at tolka claim the same for shels??? Dont make me laugh - its been sub 1000 all the way bar the visits of the other main dublin clubs
absolute bulls.hit
and its getting tiresome at this stage listnening to ppl from tolka talk up their non exsistent crowds
heres a guess to add to the bulls.t guestimate thread -- paying punters at Shels v Waterford? less than 500.
So we will overstate our crowds and pay the extra tax just to make ourselves look "good"?Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
Wow you have our number alright!
Don't even bother with the wum WWS, he's Joey Ndos best mate don't you know
by that i assume you mean me?Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash/ED
so are you happy with shels crowds? are you happy with them relative to the other big 3 in dublin?
Rovers Bohs and Pats are having poor seasons. Shels are in the middle of their most successful period ever . All 4 have had relatively consistant crowds. Rovers and Bohs appear to get a minimum of c1,500 at games, pats 1,000 and shels 800. Derby crowds and away fans swell this, but thats the bedrock.
Ultimatlely shelbournes 'hardcore' support has not in anyway increased with their success. Unlike Rovers, Pats and Bohs when they were winning in the 90's.
You brought a pitiful crowd to Dalymount 2 weeks ago. Its half a mile from your home ground and there were 300 of you. The champions playing your fiercest rivals. 300.
Im aware Rovers crowds arent what they should be, but if we were established in Tallaght, winning things and had a €35k a week wage bill, and still couldnt pull 1,000 for non derby games I would ask qustions. My reply would not see me pulling dubious unofficial stats of a website.
No you said they all got better. You were talking out of your arse.
i give up, these goons would have us believe that there is 1000 punters "hidden from view" of the tv cameras - given they officially close half their ground its laughable - like I said sub 500 crowds are the shels bedrock
pats the only team in dublin that can put its hand up and say we have got over 1000 for every home game this year - and thats the official figure - we've fck all to hide unlike shels - we announce the figure at the game - the figure which is in the return to the el office as opposed to some BS that the bloke in a turnstiles whispers to his mates- and its nowt to do with tax you fool - its the image problem that ollie has with releasing accurate attendances figures - they're so sh.t its embareesing for shels to admit the reality
find that quote from me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash/ED
and ignore the substantive argument while you do.
The only accurate way to judge crowds is to only include home support. This will show Dublin crowds down a huge amount in recent years which must be very concerning.
as an aside to this two of the teams in the Champions league group stages regularly play in front of less than 1,500 ppl
its irrelevant in my opinion - Irish football can improve in many areas but crowds will NEVER change
what we got is what it is - only those challenging for leagues will get temporary upswings - witness the cork bandwagon...
Sporting tickets/entry are exempted from VAT in Ireland, afaik. No other tax due on it, so tax is an irrelevance when it comes to attendance figures. Nice try though.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOwl
We have over 1,000 at every league game this season, 1100 being the lowest so far. Those are official attandances too.Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
Pathetic that we are argueing about getting over 1000 people but I agree with WWS, crowds will not come out long term unless something very dramatic happens. :confused:
You are right there is no VAT on the tickets. So unless Accolade makes a profit on football, they pay no tax even if they get 100,000 a week in the gate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
they have to pay tax on wages though. incidentally their lowest paid player earns E250 a week-thats one of the young players in his first year in the first team.Quote:
Originally Posted by chippie0001
with wages negotiated at net rate shels must be paying considerable amounts of tax and prsi.thats assuming ollie didnt carry out his threat to the revenue of never paying tax again
anyway point is shels do/should pay tax, if only on players wages (which is still equivalent to the entire yearly budgets of other clubs)
[QUOTE=anto eile]they have to pay tax on wages though. incidentally their lowest paid player earns E250 a week-thats one of the young players in his first year in the first team.
[QUOTE]
No club in this league payes taxes on their players' wager except one - the club that gor deducted eight points for financial irregularities! You couldn't make it up :rolleyes:
I don't see why exaggerating crowds and paying extra tax go hand in hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOwl
You can fiddle the attendance figures any way you want and still avoid paying any extra tax, simply by claiming that a large proportion of the crowd are on student/child/oap rates, or even on freebies.
And also, Ollie Byrne has stated in the national press that Shelbourne will not pay tax because of the Rovers situation.
Are you sure about that? Would've thought the likes of Harps would be pretty well run, and I remember they said they issue pay slips etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by manic da hoop
What did come out of your examinership is the huge amount of wages being paid as expenses, so PAYE exempt. If or when the revenue investigate that, most clubs will be fooked.
The point is that if you understate your attendance you can keep money off the books and pay cash for either wages or expences, avoiding tax.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
How about here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverstillidie
"because your success on the pitch has not been mirrored on the terraces. Rovers at their lowest ever ebb consitantly get more in the door, and pats aint having a great time either, but more punters in. "
And I've no intention with arguing with an idiot who talks out of their arse and clearly has little regard for truth while spewing their utter nonsense.
no need to get a moral high ground now. you were 'let off' a massive unpaid tax bill from before, that doesn't mean that you are now the only one's paying tax.Quote:
Originally Posted by manic da hoop
after our trouble a couple of years back, we brought ourselves under scrutiny from the revenue. i had a conversation later with our treasurer who was all for full time players, as "their tax credits and tax bands are not all used up from the day job, that you can actually end up saving as much in PAYE/PRSI as you loss in extra net wages". So we were certainly paying our tax at this stage (about 18 months ago) - i haven't been involved since, but i would presume that would certainly remain the case.
The point ColinR makes about tax cedits is a very good one.
Shels do get more in the gate then Rovers and Pats. That has been proved by figures on the attendance thread.
You may notice when we play in Tolka there is another team ther eon the same night :) We call them away fans!! They post to the attendance thread too and ther ehas never been much doubt over the shels figures.
and a Rovers fan bragging about paying TAX!!!!! :eek: As you said youself, you couldnt make that up...
if an unoffical estimate thread on a forum is your scientific approach to attendences, who am i to argue. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash/ED
the cameras are wrong. there are 6,000 shels fans hiding under the tv gantry aat every game. there were loads of you in dalymount i just didnt see. i take it all back.
you are getting the support a winning team in a city centre location who have spent a wedge on marketing should be getting. obviously.
everyone else is wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
without doubt the dumbest post ever
Do you have problems reading?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverstillidie
christ, here we go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash/ED
i will do this nice and easy for the slow learners.
i, like other posters such as wws, contend that shels are the poorest supported of the big 4 Dublin clubs. just look at the dismal crowd they brought 2 weeks ago to dalymount. and this is as good as it has ever been for them and after a significant marketing drive.
in the absence of official/reliable attendence figures its my well formed opinion. and im not alone in this
what bit are you struggling with?
btw and are the mods alive? what happend to the policy againt personal abuse?
Having been to all or nearly all shels home games this season I can tell you that they beat the official averages from Pats and Rovers....
and thats my well formed opinion :D
I would think the people who attend Shels games would be best placed to comment on their attendances.
20 sec clips on EL weekly is a better then the attendances thread here is it? :eek:
Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
no, official attendances - from metered stiles and league compliant ticketing procedures is the only judge - pats are in full compliance and publicise these on matchnights
what do shels do?
dont answer, we all know they dont publicise the returns to the el office - its their policy - reason - the figures are mostly sub 500
Rovers dont issue official attendences, so you tripped yourself up immediatly.Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
im afraid we will have to agree to disagree.
if you think that the average shels crowd come close to the other dublin 3 there really is no talking to you.
please explain the 300 you brought to dalymount v rovers?
and no, i dont accept the attendance thread here as being anything other than what it is, a collection of official, unofficial and pure guess work.
if i go on there every week and say rovers got 9,000, it doesnt mean it happened.
an
Again, have you problems reading?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverstillidie
Or is it you don't like the offical figures and are making up your own?
Yeah that sounds about right.
For Shels do publish offical figures and Rovers have published a few too.
Shels brought a pathetic crowd to Dalymount for the game against us as well.
It was a good bit more than 300, between 750-1000 but shockingly low considering the success that they have had recently and that Dalymount is the nearest ground to home for them - literally within walking distance.
I also heard a funny story from one of the Bohs officials who attended the security briefing before the last Shels vrs Bohs.
They were trying to set the number of Stewards and Gardai who would have to work the game and were asking Ollie for his expected attendance and he said "not more than 2500." At that point the Bohs officials started laughing at him and said "Jesus I knew your crowds were bad Ollie but are you saying there will only be 500 Shels fans at the game because we are bringing 2000." At that Ollie stormed out of the meeting to the sound of Bohs officials and Garda having a good old laugh.
Of course It had crossed everybodies mind that Shelbourne had to pay for the stewards and the police so pretending the crowd would be lower would save that loveable old hooligan a few bob.
:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitruvian Man
:D LOL :D
Irelands biggest football hooligan at it again i see....