I don't think the LoI will be having any input into the national team any time soon unfortunately.
Not sure I see any merit in that idea
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I don't think the LoI will be having any input into the national team any time soon unfortunately.
Not sure I see any merit in that idea
The merit is that it would give people something else to talk about, though it might help him politically if it helped get LoI supporters onside. Kenny would never have lasted as long as he did without their support.
It would be a great shop window for the players selected with the European transfer window being open.
A lot of the early phrases in the coverage are organised, hard working, disrupt the opponent, themed. So will he be more of a Molumby / Knight working grunt in midfield fan than Smallbone or bringing a Moran type through ?
I think the Euro games are the best transfer window though - and they're not exactly selling themselves. I'm not sure a B game would benefit tbhQuote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
There'll be a bit of chat as we get to the England game which is what - seven weeks away?
Can't see much difference to the first squad because tbh there's nobody really outside the squad who'd as much as yet. (Possibly Manning aside)
Gylfi Sigurdsson played a lot as one of the two 6s in midfield if Transfermarkt is accurate so could see it being Cullen and Smallbone.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
Moran played there for Blackburn in a couple of games. Only saw one against Newcastle where he played well. Azaz another lad you wonder how he'll fit into the team. Maybe as one of the midfield two or he might favour 352 with us. Played 343 with Jamaica.
If he reverts to 442 I can see Knight playing on the left of midfield. Iceland had Birkir Bjarnason playing on the left and similar to Knight he's probably played everywhere on the pitch bar CB.
I think this would just raise unrealistic expectations of LoI involvement in the senior squad going forward. It would just lead to complaints that whoever played well in the B game never got a full call up.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Even during Stephen Kenny's time in charge, when we had maybe our weakest squad in modern history, I think the only involvement of domestic players on the pitch was two appearances off the bench from Jack Byrne in the first Nations League campaign. Nothing after that for the next three years. And the squad is a lot stronger and deeper now.
So, while it's great that he'll be living in Ireland and going to games, I think there needs to be an acceptance that he's unlikely to be calling up domestic based players, other than maybe an occasional training keeper or something.
I would be in favour of the Greenwood stuff being spun off into a separate thread, maybe even into another part of the message board to be honest. While it's clearly an issue for a small number of posters here and a few SJWs on Twitter, I'm not getting the sense that there is any real wider interest in it. The link to Hallgrimsson is just too tenuous for it to be relevant to most people, and there's little mention of it in the media as he answered the question repeatedly during the week, so there's nothing much else to be said. Some people will always look to create issues wherever they can, probably they'd go digging for something regardless of who was hired as manager.
In spite of Crafty calling me a stubborn b0ll0cks I'm happy to drop the Greenwood thing. My point was I didn't think it was a big deal
Doesn't matter who the player was and who he played for - I would insist on the same questions being asked about the manager - and I would not want Greenwood (or anyone similar) in the Irish squad.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
RLP has indicated a clear perspective - which I fundamentally disagree with - and I don't see any reason to engage further with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
There is little mention of it in the media because the media is doing what it always does with the FAI - engaging in whitewashing. Any journalist worth their salt would be asking some very hard questions - but those type of reporters are few and far between these days. The modern journalist is more of a copy and paste type of individual (and tends to get paid accordingly).Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Shocked by the rudeness and hostility of the Irish media at the press conference. Especially when contrasted with the kid glove treatment afforded to Kenny and the heavy promotion of the very obviously unqualified O'Shea for the top job.
Maybe I'm misreading things, but it feels a lot like xenophobia.
I don't think that's true - I rarely see a good word said in the Irish media about the FAI, and in a lot of cases there's good reason for that. If there was anything in the Greenwood story they'd go for it to get the clicks, but there just isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
Any particular instances worth flagging? I haven't seen anyone else indicate that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
HH’s Greenwood quotes don’t sit well with me. But nor did Rory Best’s attendance at the Belfast Rape trial, seemingly to offer moral support to his teammates. I haven’t heard any outrage against Best continuing as a TV pundit. I think this is comparable to who managed Olding and Jackson subsequent to the trial. Legally innocent, morally questionable players. Did we ask serious questions of who employed them subsequently? Or who offered moral support?
I think it’s awkward for HH but far from fatal. Sometimes work puts you in a sh1t position.
Tomorrow Spain plays England in a major final. Spanish football has been pathetic in its response to racism. English football has dealt with the matter much better.
I’m a vehement anti-racist but who am I up for?
Where do we place Troy Parrott hanging out with Kinahan associates?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I found Troy hanging around with the kinahan highly offensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
They are a complete cancer on our society.
People like Lennon and Sagnol are ignorant d**k heads, but these guys are brutal killers. They would kill everyone on this forum if it meant getting what they wanted
What about Shane Duffy being a repeat drink driving offender? That behaviour gets completely innocent people killed. Where do you draw the line? Wherever it is, I'm certain Hallgrimsson not ruling out Greenwood but then also not calling him up either doesn't cross it, that's for sure.
I don't want to misrepresent your statement, but are you infairimg the kinahan drug cartel don't kill "completely innocent" people?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Tbf your not saying that right
No my post had nothing to do with the Kinahans.
We're falling in to the there's no ethical consumption under capitalism realm of debate now, it's all fair, once you look at almost anything too closely it's pretty difficult to enjoy it. You just have to roll with your own conscience at the end of the day.
Parrott's pals involvement in boxing has tarnished how I feel about a lot of people I would have respected previously. I'd probably give Troy some degree of a pass because of his age, and who knows what he knows about these people in all honesty, the older he gets the less rope I'd give him thou. For Duffy, I understand his life has been in a bit of a tailspin since the passing of his father, I empathize massively with him, but I also don't think he should have been called up in to the last squad so soon after the last incident.
I've already said what I thought about HH, his statement was passable at best, I'm sure for him and FAI the matter is sorted, nothing will be brought up about it again unless someone in the media really does their homework and goes for it. When you start paying any attention to the media in general you realize so much of it is borderline paid advertising at best, there's a few excellent individuals within Ireland, but a lot of people just coasting and getting a paycheck, which is fair enough as well honestly, their agency and job security is being eroded all the time too.
I don't really see the point in talking about it any more. I appreciate the few people who are trying to hammer home that it is quite serious and trying to get others to not take it so lightly, but the point has been made enough now, everyone here knows what's up, it's up to them to do with that what they wish and feel how they feel.
For me personally I really hate a lot of things I used to love and it is exhausting, but I am wired in such a way that I can't really ignore the problematic aspects.
Just seen online HH has said he'd like to do the domestic based internationals, and hold them around January. I know it was suggested here earlier, but is something I always wanted to see. It's also something I think the Women's team really should be doing.
None of this really matters
Let’s see how he does. I’ll have a proper opinion in a year
It's a good idea to promote the league but it seems totally irrelevant to the national team selection. If we are picking league of ireland player in the 17 months HH is our coach then we are in troubleQuote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
Do you mean South V North ~ A 32 county competition ? !Quote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
It would be stuff like a LOI selection V a football conference selection or Welsh league or Icelandic league (what is known as a C international).Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Given the increased importance of developing players at home after Brexit and the general trend of more former LOI players now being in the squad, there will likely be a few lads currently in the LOI playing for Ireland in the not too distant future, if this helps to identify them earlier and push them on slightly it's worth it. It's also a carrot for everyone in the league to strive towards, I see how it isn't a silver bullet, but it certainly wouldn't hurt.
I think it's more critical for the WNT to be doing this personally, but I'm all for it. I'd be interested to know if he's more leaning towards calling up basically all the lads who are current u17-21 internationals and playing 1st team football in Ireland. A squad like that on its own would be very interesting and could be supplemented with guys who might still have big moves to come in their career like Farrugia at Rovers. He's someone who probably can't sustain a career at a higher level because of his injury record, but he really can be excellent with more luck. I think we have a few of them around the league who haven't move abroad for various reasons or are late bloomers who probably deserve to be looked at.
And Spanish football has rampant misogyny as well - but racism, misogyny and homophobia is not confined to one country - how many English footballers have come out as gay? The English women's team have been subject to horrific abuse including before and after they won the Euros in 2022.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
The Spanish football federation is noted for the links of the leadership back to Franco's fascist regime (as is the case in Portugal and Italy as well - where fascist elements have all played a leading role in the management of football - Trapp had links to the fascist MSI) - but sport has always been political - and always will be.
Bringing back the B team games would be better than this domestic based players only squad. We haven't held one since the end of Traps first year.
Stan had two in 06 and 07. Mick held three in the late 90s and Jack held three in the early 90s.
Even if you limited it to mostly an U23s camp you'll still get a couple of domestic players involved.
F**K sake.
Brexit has had a benefit in that regard - but the government and FAI need to step up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
One of the pundits was pointing out recently (could have been Sadlier) that the FAI have ten academy coaches, while Croatia (a country with a million less population) has 176.
Many of the greatest Irish players didn't join English clubs until they were 18 or older, having played in the LOI first - it is not a recent phenomenon.
Is it not more like a full international, but just capping domestic based players, like they do in Scandinavia? So the game would be something like Ireland v Iceland with full caps awarded, but with only players based domestically in Ireland and Iceland being involved and presumably a much reduced ticket price to get a crowd in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
Sweden played Estonia in a game like this in January this year, they played Iceland in a similar game in January last year. Many of the players involved will never win caps outside of those January games, but it's a common thing in that part of the world to play the games and award caps to the players.
I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea as long as people appreciate that probably not a single player involved would be likely to make the next squad that includes overseas based players.
it makes me suspicious about his judgment / intelligence. I don’t know how close his friend’s association was tbh. Related? Active henchman?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Itsxall a distraction though. Let the man get an organised team with a clear style of play and clear ideas about how to react to changes in a game in thev17 months he has. Everything else around that is just window dressing . If there is to be a league of ireland selection let Crawford manage it as he woukd have a far greater knowledge of promising younger players in the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
But would the point not also be to help HH gain knowledge? International managers have little to be at for half the year, I'm sure he wants to have a couple weeks coaching these guys and that's why he's suggested it.Quote:
Originally Posted by liamoo11
My concern is it becomes a distraction and something like the excuses from Kenny where any time he was feeling he was been critiqued he came out with the utterly irrelevant stat around the number of players he had given first caps to as if in any way that had any importance or negated the total lack of organisation or game plan on show or worse his inability to react tactically within games or adjust the approach depending on what teams he was playing. If HH is in interviews in a year saying I held 2 games for loi players to try to distract from poor performance s then we are in troubleQuote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
I think focusing only on the senior team is why the entire organization is a shambles. We should be able to do more than one thing at once without worrying about it being a distraction. HH put a lot of energy in to domestic and youth football in Iceland, I'd be disappointed if he wasn't doing the same here, that on top of his international record is why he was hired I imagine.
He was at the Shels game as they struggled past a Gibraltar side in Europe, as Derry lost in Gibraltar, the same week Rovers were seemingly outplayed in Iceland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
That should tell where the LoI is in terms of contributing to the national team
I think that's a fair response, though it does seem to be more benefit of the doubt than Halgrimmson is getting at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
And that was in mid-season against pre-season teams. A game for LoI players in pre-season sounds unhelpful.
I think I've already said in another thread I wouldn't count out all 3 clubs still going through just yet, we might feel very different about those games by next Thursday, or worse, who knows :D
I think everyone agrees there has been a massive talent drain on the top end of LOI, while a lot of the leagues biggest stars of the past decade are coming to the end of their careers. The league is very much in a transitional phase, although I think the bottom and middle of the league is probably as strong as it ever has been. I think as players from academies that have been doing excellent work come through, hopefully some others catch up, the league as a whole will be in a relatively healthy place. The average age might continue to trend younger and less experienced. We'll see how things develop and how sustainable full time football will be for older players if the improved crowds continue to hold. We're so far away from where we need to be at so many levels, and probably going slower than the competition. Nothing will change without massive funding, but I still think things are trending in the right direction. I am a bit worried about wage inflation at the top end and sustainability thou.
It seems to be a more negative side effect of Brexit, that L1/2 and Scottish clubs are looking to sign Irish, and a lot of promising guys are being snapped up in the 18-21 age range now, but they're also the guys I would expect to make up the bulk of these Domestic squads. Players who aren't the finished article but could turn out to be something.
I think there's great merit in the idea, I don't expect him to start calling up LOI lads for the sake of it, or immediately off the back of it but I think it's an idea that is the beginning of a process, that could lead to a lot of long term good, if it becomes an annual thing and a part of the culture of Irish football.
I also think it's almost a must for the women's side, because of the very different challenges they face.
That's fair enough but I'd much rather HH was taking sessions with regional development under 12 and 13 squads and taking sessions with the national 15s,16s and 17s if he was to be do7ble jobbing. But at the end of the day that won't help him make changes within games tactically which is so important to try and get resukts. When u see how horrible Kenny wascatbthat particularly in.both Greek games and the Dutch games when he was absolutely skooled by opposition managers in games where more tactical ability and clear thinking on team structure within game would have got us resukts in those games. So whatever HH needs to do to be as tactically astute as possible that's what he and his team should be spending his time on not virtue signaling to the loi apologists who got us landed with Kenny in the first place through their utter blind unquestioning support for him that emboldened him and his egoQuote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
I wouldn't be surprised if he spends time traveling about, meeting people and putting on sessions etc. He was at a match with Jim Crawford already, so I'm sure he will continue to get to know the underage managers, their squads the whole way down. I do think the Ireland international underage structures are pretty joined up and function well together. Results have been very good for a number of years at least, so we're doing some stuff right. The big issue here is what is happening to kids around when they turn 16, and the absolute mess of league structures all over the place, waring factions and all of that.
I couldn't speak of HH's in game management, but he's been around the block and experienced a lot at the highest level you can with weaker players than he'll have with Ireland, so I am cautiously optimistic about how he'll do. It will be interesting to compare how we do against Greece next time out.
Oh they can all still go through - I think law of averages is two out of three will be the max - but still, players who struggle against Icelandic or pre-season Gibraltar club teams are a heck of a way off national team considerationQuote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla