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eh, I think you'll find that this thread went off the topic a while back when PP attacked me and De Town for being kids:rolleyes:. People were talking about Keane/McCarthy in Saiipan before I mentioned about Mick's nationality so it's not my fault this thread has gone off-topic!Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlosIRL
Can you answer my question????Quote:
Originally Posted by M@ttitude
Paul McGrath - born Greenford, Middlesex - 4 December 1959Quote:
Originally Posted by sligoman
returned to live in Dublin when 2 months old
David O'Leary - born Stoke Newington, London - 2 May 1958
returned to live in Dublin when less than six months old.
Saiipan while done to death on foot.ie at least gives an insight into a facet of Mick's managerial skills or lack there of. His nationality on the other hand and the subsequent tripe on Irishness, is completely irrelevant, argumentative and off topic :ball:Quote:
Originally Posted by sligoman
I think you answered that one yerself so I didn't feel the need to;):D.Quote:
Originally Posted by M@ttitude
Well both are English then, however, they do sound Irish so it's not as obvious as McCarthy;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhoops
Thank you o wise one, a friend of mine was born on an airplane somewhere over the atlantic, I must break the news to him that he is a creature of the sea/sky?(help me out sligo).. Does the Atlantic ocean have a national team?Quote:
Originally Posted by sligoman
Paul McGrath - born Greenford, Middlesex - 4 December 1959
returned to live in Dublin when 2 months old
David O'Leary - born Stoke Newington, London - 2 May 1958
returned to live in Dublin when less than six months old.
So there you have it lads, Paul McGrath and David O'Leary, two english tossers posing as Irishmen. The cnuts, they fu**ing hoodwinked us for all these years. It was those Irish accents that fooled us.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by sligoman
Thanks Sligoman for putting us right on that.;)
Um, hardly. You came out with some puerile comment about how you were glad Mick McCarthy was having a hard time at Sunderland and I chastised you for it. Remember this?Quote:
Originally Posted by sligoman
Nothing I have seen from you since changes this opinion one bit. Accept the fact that you've made a right tit of yourself when posting on this thread. Then do yourself a favour and grow up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy
:ball: PP
Jaysus Mattitude, you know a lot of foreigners;):p.Quote:
Originally Posted by M@ttitude
That was my opinion, for you to call it a "purile comment" is just stupid just cos you don't agree with it:rolleyes:.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy
So Sligoman if you ( and it isnt beyong the realms of possibilty) meet a nice girl one day and you are very much in love and nature takes its course and nine months later a little baby is born but lo and behold your job requires you to move to England for a period of time so your kids are born there then a year later you move back . what nationalty are your children then?
Obviously English. I wouldn't want them to be, but there is feck all I could do about it if that happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by gustavo
Lads, ye can throw any amount of possible scenarios at me, but none of them will change my opinion on the matter. Theirs not much else to say on this subject.
Yeah my nephew, he's like the black sheep of the family now because of you, he insists on paella for dinner, he wants a bull instead of a dog etc, etc.. All because he popped out near a holiday resort in the costa del sol. I hope he doesnt get deported back to spain!!!!:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by sligoman
But seriously sligoman, your views make a mockery of our ancestors that had no choice but to leave their beautiful country.
Oh yes there is. I'll leave it to Joe Horgan of the Irish Post, though, and the words of his Christmas column a fortnight back. I've had enough fun making you and your "opinion" look daft. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by sligoman
Over to Joe:
"James Connolly, signatory to the 1916 Proclamation and one of the main political thinkers behind the uprising, probably didn’t visit Ireland until 14 or 15 years of age. When he did so it was as a member of the British army. He was executed by the same British army while strapped to a chair in the grounds of Kilmainham jail. Born in Edinburgh. Plastic Paddy.
Tom Clarke, first to sign the 1916 Proclamation. Active in the cause of Irish separatism for over 30 years prior to the Easter Rising, he served 15 years hard labour in England for his part in a bombing campaign. Born on the Isle of Wight. Plastic Paddy.
Éamon de Valera, the last commander to surrender in 1916. Hugely influential figure in the War of Independence, the civil war after the signing of the treaty and Irish life up to the 1970s. He was President of the Irish republic from 1959-73 and had such an impact that the country became known as “de Valera’s Ireland”. Born in New York. Plastic Paddy.
James Larkin, who was credited with founding the Irish labour movement. He led the workers in the 1913 lock-out and was a hero to the Dublin masses. He was a Labour TD up until the 1940s. Born in Liverpool. Plastic Paddy.
Peter Monahan, a member of Tom Barry’s flying column in West Cork, was part of the guerrilla forces that are credited with bringing Lloyd George to the negotiating table after inflicting heavy losses on British forces. An explosives expert who died at the famous Crossbarry ambush, he is buried in the republican plot in Bandon. Born in Scotland. Plastic Paddy.
Sean Phelan, Sean and Ernie Nunan, Johnny O’Connor, Desmond Ryan, Margaret Skinnider, Desmond Fitzgerald, Joe Good, Arthur Agnew, Paddy Moran, Peggy Downey, Liam Daley, Piaras Beaslai and Liam Mellows. All were active in the rising of 1916 and had cockney, scouse and Scottish accents. Every last one of them born in Britain. Plastic Paddies.
St. Patrick, credited with founding the church in Ireland. Patron saint of the country. Born in Britain. Plastic Paddy.
Liam McCarthy, after whom the all-Ireland hurling trophy is named. Born in England. Plastic Paddy.
Seán Óg Ó hAilpín, the Cork captain who this year lifted that very trophy and gave his entire acceptance speech in fluent Irish. Seen by many as the modern embodiment of the GAA’s sporting ideal. Born in Australia. Plastic Paddy.
Paul McGrath, probably the finest player of the era when an Irish soccer team finally went to a European championship and two World Cup finals. This sporting success is seen by many as helping to kick-start the birth of a new, confident Ireland. Born in London. Plastic Paddy.
David O’Leary, who scored that famous penalty against Romania, and Ray Houghton, who scored those goals against England and Italy. Born in Britain. Plastic Paddies.
The Edge and Adam Clayton of U2, the band said by many to be the best in the world. Acclaimed as being the first to put Irish rock music on the world scene as a credible enterprise. Entwined in the whole concept of modern Ireland and Irishness as something cool and hip. Born in England. Plastic Paddies.
Shane MacGowan, sometime lead singer with the Pogues. Generally acclaimed as one of the finest songwriters of our time. His songs encapsulate much of what it is to be Irish and he wrote the greatest Christmas song ever. Born in Tunbridge Wells. Plastic Paddy.
Ronan Bennett, critically lauded Irish novelist. Imprisoned in Long Kesh and in England on suspicion of republican activities. Born in Oxford. Plastic Paddy.
Pearse Hutchinson, poet writing primarily in the Irish language. Born in Glasgow. Plastic Paddy.
Cyril Cusack, actor and father of the famous Irish acting family. Born in Kenya. Plastic Paddy.
Jack Butler Yeats, brother of the poet and renowned in his own right as one of Ireland’s finest painters. Born in London. Plastic Paddy.
Thousands of the children and grandchildren brought up in Irish families in Britain , with Irish names and Irish ways. With accents and lives in Britain. With their Irish faces on British streets. Every last one of them born in Britain. Plastic Paddies. Plastic Paddies everywhere."
:ball: PP
Sligoman I think the main problem is that you are confusing place of birth with nationality.
For you place of birth is the be all and end all to nationality but this is not the case legally or culturally. There are many ways to judge a persons nationality. You say its your opinion however its not something that is open to peoples opinions its a legal thing. People are Irish when the hold an Irish passport. It is also possible to have dual nationality also. You simply arguing saying this is my opinion is simplistic and facile.
As I said before place of birth is one of the contributary factors in a persons nationality but its not the only factor. This is not opinion but it is fact.
where is Lopez these days? he would have had a field day with this one:D
Nice post PP!!
where is Lopez these days? he would have had a field day with this one:D
Nice post PP!!
Whoever he scored against, he has no place on that list. The "still consider myself scottish" untc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy
Some born to irish parent(s) feel and are and consider themselves Irish, other's don't take on any of that and consider themselves English (or whereever). McCarthy would be in the former, the likes of Morrison and Holland most definitely the latter.
I don't see why it's so hard to see the difference between people who just use their parents/grandparents when they need something (Something I really think both sides of the arguement need to take account off before the jump to the defence/ to attack people).
Some of the younger generation should remember that it wasn't always "cool" or acceptable to be irish in the UK, and not even that long ago.
I don't care where any Irish player is born if they consider themselves Irish. The likes of Kilbane and McGeady consider themselves Irish, former internationals like Alan Kelly and Mick McCarthy consider themselves to be Irish. Fair play to them.
Clinton Morrison, Jason McAteer, Ray Houghton etc do not. If Ronaldinho, Zidane, Rooney, Henry and Eto'o were eledgible to play for Ireland and wanted to play for Ireland to further their careers rather than them believing themselves to be Irish, I wouldn't pick them.
It would be indeed. But in fact, he's calling it a puerile opinion because it is, in fact, a puerile opinion. Just because you're too bigoted to see it as such doesn't change the fact that he's right to call it so.Quote:
Originally Posted by sligoman
The way Morrison plays for Ireland, I'd never lump him in with the likes of Holland, works his socks off every single time I've seen him in the green jersey. Holland (at best) is a passenger in most games I've seen him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Clinton "Come and get me Sven" Morrison is not Irish. No Irishman would beg the manager of England to pick him.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Matt "God Save the Queen" Holland is not Irish. No Irishman would sing God Save the Queen, let alone in front of 70,000 people in Wembley.
My brother was born in England as my parents were living over
there at the time. Moved back when he aws 1 or 2. He's never
had an English passport or anything but anytime he annoyed me
I used to always throw the Brit thing back in his face to wind him
up. Cost me a fair few beatings in my youth :p
And I suppose the 20,000 Irish people who sang (hummed) the French national anthem in Paris are French :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGuy
I can and never will understand this Aryran race pure and green blooded Irishman theory.
French anthem is the best tune ever!Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Your second sentence is nonsense.
somebody please explain why we have passports?
I agree - the theory is nonsense.
Hmmmm, you're still Irish if you sing the French national anthem because it's a catchy tune but you're not Irish if you sign along to God Save the Queen because it's a brutal song. I see.
any danger this thread could go back on topic sometime before Mick's contract expires in 2007 :D ?
p.s. for what it's worth, the german anthem does it for me!
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlosIRL
Italian for me, stunning.
Not getting in to the debate on the Irishness of these two. However I think you do Holland a big injustice. I believe he has always put in a good shift when wearing the green, an industrious player if not the most graceful, the likes of which a team with our 'limited ability' needs. Scored some important goals as well (Portugal away and Cameroon in Japan).Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Not really arsed about their performances, should never have been picked in the first place imo. Not irish, just a career choice. The fact that professional players play professionally when picked is irrelevant.
So what? He is hardly going to turn up and not try. If the Jamaican bobsled team called me up I'd try my best, it wouldn't make me Jamaican though. Nobody is debating how good/bad these players are. As I said if it was Ronaldinho, Zidane or Wayne Rooney I'd still feel the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Actually, I stated that my response was not with regards to the Irishness of Holland, I was specifically talking about his performances for Ireland. I don't disagree with either of you on this one, I am strongly opposed to the 'career choice' brigade as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGuy
Well actually tetsujin1979 commented on Hollands performances for Ireland, I disagreed and posted as such - so I guess you are wrong that nobody is debating how good/bad these players are.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGuy
This thread seems to have really lost all scope. Can we please stick to McCarthy at Sunderland? The whole Irishness thing is something which has been debated ad nauseum on the Irish International team forum.
thank you! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
Where's Klein4 when you need him, his trademark 'yawn!' could have put an end to all this 2 pages back! ;) :D
Stable door, horse, fecked off long ago. Rearrange the previous into a coherent sentence. If you'd have slapped Sligoman down earlier in this thread when you should have done for his pathetic anti-McCarthy diatribe, this "debate" wouldn't have happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
:ball: PP
No need for that PP. Obviously I didn't catch it in time but better late than never.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy
This thread lost its scope from 02 January (look at the posts that day). You are the moderator of this particular forum/thread and have posted on various other threads on 02 Jan, 04 Jan, 05 Jan but have made no 'moderators' comment on this thread until 06 Jan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
Posting on 06/01 'This thread seems to have really lost all scope. Can we please stick to McCarthy at Sunderland? The whole Irishness thing is something which has been debated ad nauseum on the Irish International.' smacks of either patronising crap, your inability to moderate a forum or your 'silent' support for your fellow moderator Sligoman, who posts on this thread have resulted in 'This thread seems to have really lost all scope'
Time to s**t or get off the pot:o
If you have a problem with my moderating then you're more than entitled to take it up with Adam. I'm certainly not silently supporting Sligoman. When a moderator misses something members can do their bit by bringing it up too. I had decided initially to allow it to naturally come back to its topic. It is only since the 5th that this topic utterly went to hell and moved away from McCarthy altogether. PP, you for example are a moderator and only helped fan the flames and you also could have easily raised any problems here on the mod board.