Very little, slightly puzzled why you'd ask? But yes I do disapprove of both.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
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Very little, slightly puzzled why you'd ask? But yes I do disapprove of both.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
You don't have to but most people do pick a side no matter how reprehensible both parties are.
Most people in ireland on social media and in public seem to support the mad mullahs and their bag carriers , I don't get it but they are entitled to their opinions I suppose, just don't go live there.
You don't see the similarities with two genocidal, expansionist, aggressive regime which have groomed a cult-like, unquestioning, belief in their stance among their population?
I'm not sure how well you understand this topic to be honest
I understand perfectly, you've chosen your side and you dont like my choice fair enough. Don't think we are going to change each others minds somehow. Hopefully things calm down soon
That kind of line just picks fights. This is a contentious enough issue without it.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
But can you explain why you feel you've little in common with Nazi Germany but a lot in common with Israel, despite both being genocidal, expansionist, aggressive regime which have groomed a cult-like, unquestioning, belief in their stance among their population?Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
The Mad Mullah thing isn't an argument - or at least I could match it with a Mad Commie equivalent for the Nazis
I just find it absurd that anyone in their right mind would support Israel here, given the terror, relentless bombing, murdering of children, families, women, doctors, students, and zero let up in the midst of it, ordering people to evacuate into makeshift campsites that are too small for the number of people, and then bombing those campsites.
And all of that is just tipping the iceberg.
There is zero justification for their acts. Zero. No amount of whataboutery or finger pointing justifies it.
I find it hard to believe that people would support the mad mullahs and dictators that have killed tens of thousands and despise us. I'll say for the last time I don't support killing anybody on either side but I'm just not comfortable with the generally anti Israeli stance people take in this country regardless of the nature or type of regimes on the other side. Condemning each side isn't good enough for most people. Also saying I can identify more with a democratic state that doesn't hate the west shouldn't be even slightly hard to understand. It doesn't mean I support killing people Jews or Arabs its just a simple statement of facts
There's a literal genocide ongoing in Palestine and your response is to repeatedly throw out this "mad mullahs" jibe, and a frankly slightly racist undertone in your posting on the subject.
There's zero justification for what's going on. It's genocide.
I'm a racist now because I condemn killings on both sides but say I identify more with a democratic Israel that doesn't hate the western values I believe in compared to the other side.......
and im not throwing out the mad mullahs thing for no reason, maybe it annoys you but they are mad and lunatic oppressors of their own people and minorities and woman.
I dont identify with them at all even a litle bit, if that makes me racist in your eyes so be it.
I'm done.
Probably for the best, because someone who puts forward Israel as at least being a democracy, whilst failing to connect that the Nazis / Hitler were democratically elected initially is a bit mad Ted.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
That's before mulling the Mullahs madness.
Why don't you mull the mullah madness ? Nobody ever seems to. Doesn't suit the wokarati agenda.
Are you trying to suggest that the fact the Nazis were elected means that democracies are inherently worse then mullahs or dictators whom you seem to prefer. You should ask a few Iranians or Syrians how they feel about their leaders.
Embarressing
Embarrassing spelling maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
& yes this football site populated by middle aged men with a very particular sphere of interest is a known hub of wokarati types. Of course it is.
Because the Mad Mullahs aren't relevant in a thread wondering why the State of Israel has murdered more than 40k people in the last 12 months with no more than token condemnation internationally, especially when compared to Russia - who, let's be honest, are killing fewer people in UkraineQuote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
Strawman nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
The mad mullahs are running hamas and hesbulah or do you think otherwise?
The Russians have killed far more than 40000 in Ukraine btw but let's not let facts get in yhe way.
Lol u started it with your nonsense about yhe Nazis ,I never mentioned them.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Can I ask you who do you think are more like us the mullahs or the Israelis? I expect no answer or nonsense
I mentioned the Nazis. I was curious why you associated with Israel so strongly despite the huge parallels with Nazi Germany. You still haven't really answered that
The question about "who's more like us" is utterly irrelevant anyway. And btw, the Hasidic Jews - a rapidly increasing demographic with special treatment in Israel - aren't that fond of the gays either
They're all lunatics. I associate with none of them
I don't associate with the nazis at all. Do you associate with the mullahs hamas hessbulah? Where would you rather your daughter or your gay friend grew up? Iran, Syria or Israel. I expect nothing but nonsense and deflection as there is only one answer.
Neither did I FFS.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
It's a bizarre way to evaluate things...'who is more like us'. You've said it more than once on this thread...that you take a side (your words) based on which country/people/system of governance is more like your own.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
To explore that...if the USA were to invade Vietnam tomorrow to remove their one party socialist state structure and replace it with a multi-party democracic structure, would you support that? After all, the USA's preferred solution is more than likely closer to your ideals than the Vietnamese system.
So why do you associate with Israel given the huge similarities with the Nazis?Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
It's a pathetically narrow-minded and irrelevant way to judge a political matter. As if all this can be justified by gay rights FFSQuote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
Disagree with huge similarities with the nazis.
Please answer the question who do you identify more with if the middle east was at peace a democratic and Liberal Israel or the mad mullahs and their regimes.
No answer....thought not
Tbh if someone blew up everyone and every thing I ever knew for decades with impunity I might become someone capable of doing a terrorism too.
Tbf if someone killed 6 million of my crew I might become slightly annoyed
The people of Palestine did not do that. Weaponizing a generational trauma to go and inflict similar crimes on another is bad I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
Eh.....the nazis didn't bomb Palestine either. I'm fed up saying I condemn both sides atrocities would anyone else have the balls to go against the wokearati and say the mullahs are not any better than the Israelis or do we all just ignore the obvious and get on with grooming our handlebar moustaches.
This has been a deeply unfulfilling conversation for me pal, losing the will to read levels. I'm not sure you're really getting what any of us are trying to say to you, and I'm not sure you want to hear it either.
2 sides are bad, one is doing a genocide, so maybe they should stop that? I don't know seems kind of the worse thing. I don't even want to go down the rabbit hole of whether people who are being oppressed should be allowed to fight back or not because I don't think anyone has the energy for that can of worms.
What exactly is a 'wokerati'?
No one wants to address what I'm saying. I condemn the Israeli bombing of Arab areas , I condemn the rape and murder and kidnapping of Israeli civilians.
Now if you had to choose where to live with your friends be they gay, straight, woman , men would you identify more with the mad mullahs , Syrian dictators , hamas , hesbolah or Israel.?? Feel free to keep ignoring the obvious and refusing to answer. Please someone answer that question
This is the worst attempt at a gotcha I have ever seen
Cheers its amazing how people can support horrific regimes because it's the trendy thing to doQuote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
We're wasting each others time but this is an incredibly ironic thing to say given the conversation were havingQuote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
I just thinknits genuinely hilarious that people think it's controversial for someone to say they identify with Israel more so then regimes that hate the west and our values. I'd urge all the Hamas supporters to move to the middle East and see how they get on. They'd find plenty of people that would love to swap passports
But you do understand that Israel is the side of this "conflict" that has all of the meaningful support? That's who is "popular". Do you really think people are supporting Palestine because it's cool? People have died because they have tried to help, people have died because they have tried to report on it, others from a safer position have lost their jobs just for saying they think what is happening is wrong. Whatever you can feel like you are more like an Israeli than an Arab, that really shouldn't matter, I don't know how you're not understanding this, and why you also seem to have such a low opinion of people who genuinely care, they aren't stupid just because you don't understand them. I think public opinion is slowly turning because no matter how unevenly what is happening is being reported by much of the media, people can see how sick and ****ed up the situation is, who is perpetuating daily unspeakable horrors, and who the victims are.
The logic of this is unhinged.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
Several people have answered the question. It's irrelevant first off, and you haven't shown any reason to the contrary. But in any event, as I've already said, I really can't identify with either group. Neither conservative Islam for reasons you've booked, nor Israel and their genocidal, cult-like views. From my (quite limited) exposure to the general Israeli, there seems to be widespread support for its regime's ethnic cleansing and settlement of Palestine. And within that, I don't identify with the views of the influential and rapidly growing Hasidic sect, including their views on gay people. Yet you do?Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
I've answered your question with reasons (again) - could I ask you to do the same? It's too easy to answer "I disagree" with no further argument.
So what differences do you see between these two democratically-elected, genocidal, expansionist, war-starting groups who have created a cult level of support at home and who both have bogeymen opposition groups (communists/conservative Islam)?
I can say that Israel is a better place to live for LGBT people than Iran or Syria, and indeed, a better place to live in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
But so what? What is the relevance of that?
Spain is a better place to live than Portugal in many ways (longer life span, higher salary, better educated, higher literacy rate, lower infant mortality, higher LGBT equality index, decriminalised homosexual activity earlier, legalised same sex marriage earlier) but if Spain invaded Portugal tomorrow and started laying waste to the population and the infrastructure, my thought process wouldn't be 'well, what's left of Portugal will end up a better place to live'.
Well for a start the Nazis killed approximately 66% of the European Jewish population in the 12 years the 3rd Reich existed and banned elections after they came to power (with a minority vote) so they were not actually a democracy for the most part and the Germans didnt have an oppurtunity to vote them out.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
The Israelis are a functioning democracy and the Population of Gazza has grown by about 40% over the last 12 years (to keep the time frame the same as the Nazis) so i dont think they are similer to be honest at all.
If the Israelis were actually Nazis they would have killed all the population of Gazza by now with the firepower they have and by cuting off all food aid such as the actual Nazis did in the Gettos in Poland in the second world war.
People throw the word Genocide and Ethnic cleansing around loosely (and before someone clutches their pearls i think killing 40000 is wrong just as much as Oct 7th was wrong) im simply making the point that if anything it shows the Israelis are not Nazis.n
I cant blame the Israelis for reacting to October 7th i think any Government that had 1200 of its citizens raped and killed / taken hostage that didnt react would be unusual to say the least but you cant solve the problem by killing 40/50/60 thousend people they just get replaced so its pointless. Equally Arab countries agression towards Israel is pointless they cant win either. They need to live together but as long as Dictator ships like Iran / Syria exist i cant see it happening.
Ironically to use your Nazi analogy if the Israelis were actual Nazis they would solve the problem through a Genocidal wipe out.....one could call it A FINAL SOLUTION with a bit of irony but thankfully they arent Nazis
You do realize that this started before Oct 7th? It has also been reported in the mean time that a huge number of those deaths were due to the IDF killing their own people. You should look in to The Hannibal directive. What Hamas did was horrific, the rape allegations can't be proven, do I believe it's possible some awful people did awful things? Absolutely, but do I believe Israel capable of weaponizing something like that to fuel their motives? Absolutely. There are literally thousands of Palestinian hostages trapped in Israeli prisons before Oct 7th, thousands of them children! Apparently about 43% of the population of Palestine is children. Israel are exterminating a nation live before our eyes and you're being willfully blind to it.
So much of what has and is happening has been misrepresented and used as an excuse to begin the Israeli equivalent of the final solution. You're saying they're not Nazi's because they haven't killed everyone yet. You're very much underestimating what their final solution is then, perhaps you should spend some time listening to what Netanyahu is saying, because that is very much his plan, how the US and others are allowing it to happen in this day and age is astonishing. They don't care about either side, they are just using Israel as a battering ram for control in the region, it is sick.
Yes i do know it started before Oct 7th hence why i gave the 12 year figure for popualtion growth of circa 40% in Gazza over the last 12 years., which makes sense of your "apparantly 43% of the people of palastine are Children" comment.
tbh i think any reasonable person looking at what has happened in the last year and what COULD have happened would be inclined to agree that Israel is not pursuing the "Final solution" .
Do i think it likely that the Israelis will actually try and do a Nazi type final solution and elimnate the Palestinians? i 100% do not and please God i am right.
Im not comfortable discussing the absence of a FINAL SOLUTION as a positive as i think whats going on on both sides now needs to stop as it is utterly pointless, i only make the point because i think people throw genocide and final solution/ Nazis around loosely and the facts simply dont agree with it
Im think that any reasonable person reading the stats that the poppulation of Palastine has increased by circa 40% in the last 12 years and looking at the 12 year Nazi regime who killed circ 66% of the European jews might think that maybe its an unfair comparison to equate the Nazis with the Israelis.