Job done. No more, no less. Had the chances to get two or three more. Will do nothing to settle the wider debate of course.
Job done. No more, no less. Had the chances to get two or three more. Will do nothing to settle the wider debate of course.
Actually - I’ll add to my response by saying, I find it far more offensive when he talks up average performances or wins against minnows as being great results (which I hope he doesn’t do here but I’m expecting he will).Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
Good to see Idah off the mark,a special moment for any player opposition and current form not withstanding.
Much much better second half. A slice of luck about the first, but once that went in we had a new sense of freedom to attack without any risk as we knew Gibraltar would never get back into it, and Gibraltar no longer had anything defend as they knew they'd never get back into it.
Good for Idah to get a goal, and in the end, it turned out to be one of those games where the heavy favourite (eventually) does the formalities and dispatches the minnow.
Yeah happy for Idah. Johnston made a huge difference. I thought he should have started but it worked. He just has more creative ability than anyone else. Doesn't always play the predictable pass and can beat a player. We don't have anyone else like that and that's what you need in games like tonight's.
good night for johnston + mcclean
bad night for 3-5-2 . its time to only use it against the top seeds stephen.
still playing in France. 106th min.
edit: just finished, 1-0.
Was happy enough with that. Got the initial shape wrong, Johnston should have started, but at least we adjusted at half time.
Delighted for the 3 lads that scored. All important players for our future so thats a massive postitive.
Acceptable overall.
The adjustments that Kenny made at h/t were perfect. Not just the formation switch and introduction of Johnston but there was a lot more play around the edge of the area, working it in tight spaces and then a shot, a pass thru the channel or finding the wing back out wide. It stretched them way more than the overworking from wing to wing that we saw in the first half. Parrott coming on early was more reinforcement of that and allowed us to work it even more in those tight spaces. Exactly what the doctor ordered but, as I said earlier, you’d have to wonder a bit why it wasn’t the plan from the first whistle.
Always a sense of relief when those minnow games are over. Ever since Liechtenstein away…
Yeah - I kind of got the feeling in the first half we weren't playing all that badly - slow for sure, and not running at them at all. But we put some nice balls across the six yard box a couple of times and any of those go in it's a different game. Wasn't as annoyed at 0-0 at halftime as I could have beenQuote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Obvious question though is why Johnston didn't start. A number of us here commented on it here for example. Add that to Idah starting in Greece and there's a couple of worries about selection
Overall though, unspectacular stuff tonight but nothing to really beat Kenny with. And nothing to suggest September isn't going to be a slog.
Not the first time he's had a poor first game in a window and a half-decent second one. The same questions remain for me, but I think talk of a replacement being lined up will quieten down for now
Thought McClean maybe deserved MotM on merit, sheriff albeit it has been announced before his second assist
This pretty much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Should really have scored 3 in the first half with Obafemi unable to react when a toe would have resulted in a goal, Ferguson somehow missing the header from the McClean cross and McGrath having two good chances, one of which should have been a goal.
Ferguson could have had another header in the second half, McClean too.
When you end up creating 8 should score chances - and score 3 - you can’t be too concerned
Think if Kenny does stay (and I doubt it), he's to learn the same lesson as Mikel Arteta.. you can't play the same way, every game.
There was no need to play 3 CBs against Gibralter, so he shouldn't have done it
A bit of flexibility is needed
As for the wider group scenario.. as bad as we think Friday was.. if we were to play and beat Greece in our next game.. we'd be level with them on 6 points.. after the same set of fixtures
Most disappointing thing for me this evening was the extremely poor send off given to Liam Brady…. 25 years of brilliant punditry and they barely mentioned it at the end…. Thank you Liam ; like Giles and Dunphy before you , you’ll be greatly missed
Like it or loathe it SK celebrates goals and results pretty much the smae irrespective of opposition of tournament. Can be a bit cringe, but then at the same time he would be super downbeat after losing a firendly to a Man City. It isnt an easy watch at tie especially when he lets the mtioal sde get the better of himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
What do I thik now after a number of years backi his management to the hilt? Well who would take the job that would mae a signficant difference - open to suggestions! Who would be looking to a longer term develpment rather than short term gain that will, as it has already, result in protracted mediocrity. Could we afford to change the coaching setup and who could we afford to bring in - would a Baraclough get the juices flowing. My main issue with SK is his uber positiveness that gets him in to trouble - targeting a nations league - fail, targeting a win in Athen - fail. Maybe he should stick to 'project' and progression is a bonus. Give it a year of 2 and there is some proper quality coming through off the back of the Kenny led elite player development programme at underage. Someone will reap the benefit of this and if it isnt SK people will miss the larger impact imo
The thing is a blind man could see Johnston was the perfect option for this game and we didn’t need 3 CB’s to start. It was poor management.
I was impressed with 42k tonight but it was dead most of the game. Hard to get up for it but a win is a win.
There was a nice tribute and quite a bit of conversation about it at the start of the programme. You might have missed that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcio Jack
parrott did well in his cameo. very disappointing window from cullen (mr reliable) smallbone and obafemi
was there any montage? missed the start, would have assumed theyd have kept all that til the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
A fairly professional performance without being anything overly spectacular.
Final third was poor in the first half and probably Cullen's worst international window since stepping into the senior team.
Otherwise did what was required. Johnston was the difference and that's about it.
Happy for Idah to get his goal though.
I can confirm there was a montage. Bits of Liam with Bill, Eamon, Johnny and the rest of the lads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd2793
Thought Cullen played some nice ball in and around the box in the second half. Have to say Smallbone has never done much for me. Also thought Knight was very good, a player I’ve always liked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd2793
Parrot probably suits that type of game more than Obafemi? Or at least a half fit Obafemi. He only really got one chance to run at them but was otherwise completely surrounded. Parrot did a better job of passing around the corners. It didn't quite pan out but at least it caused them a different sort of problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd2793
yeah definitely. was surprised at how rusty obafemi looked though his decision making and first touch were poor. badly need himself and parrott need to get game time next seasonQuote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
One thing to say about Parrott is that he got space in the box at one stage and the ball sat up for a left-foot shot - not ideally, but you'd still expect a player to get a shot away - but he dallied over it and the chance was gone. You can't really blame rust for him - he played 40+ games last season - so it's probably another sign that he's not really there in terms of goalscoring yet, which we kind of know from last season anyway.
I don’t think Parrott’s club goal scoring record merits a starting place for us, but his tendency to drift and ability to make a forward pass suits Ferguson’s positional play. I think Ferguson and Obafemi want to do the same thing and take the same positions and effectively get in each other way, Idah to a lesser extent but both he and Ferguson play as 9s. We don’t need to play a partner with Ferguson, but if we do, Parrott looks the best option. I think Johnston has made a strong claim for more playing time, and that opens the door to reverting to a front 3 which would also get the most out of Ogbene’s qualities.
I did miss that ….. makes sense and glad to hear it.. cheersQuote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
He improved in the second half, but the drop off in Cullen’s performances is a worry. Not sure what’s going on there – belief/ confidence seems gone. He had plenty of opportunities to take a shot, play a forward pass but seemed content to just recycle and play it square (and not always with success).
FWIW, I’d like to see the back of Kenny now, bring in a replacement now (surely it’s Carsley?) and just get going. A couple of big wins get us back into the mix (wishful thinking) but we should be aiming to be ready for a play-off via the NL - though it doesn’t look guaranteed right now.
But last night was a bit of a hiding to nothing. Flat , mono-paced first half with sloppy passing and no incision after the first 30 seconds. Accomplished without being penetrative.
Much better second half. Why Johnston didn’t start against this lot and why we needed 3 CBs is beyond me, but I guess it’s a 90 minute game. And overall, in my opinion it was a considerably better performance than the equivalent game under Mick.
Delighted for Idah.
And looking at Armenia, Kazakhstan etc. does prove that these teams are better than we give them credit for and Greece only losing 1-0 in France rubbishes the notion that they should have been an easy target last weekend. Ukraine beat Malta 1-0, Israel only beat Andorra 2-1. We don’t have a monopoly on underwhelming results against minnows!
Yeah I've given up on Kenny now as well - time for a change. On last night, didn’t think the 3 CBs was an issue – more the player selection. Both Knight and McClean did what could be expected of them and did it well but perhaps not at the pace desired, and not with the tricky of a Johnston. Neither Knight nor McClean could dribble past their opposite numbers – it was telegraphed every time they would look to get a cross in rather than try and beat their man. It was lined up for McClean to get his 100th cap, but O’Dowda has a bit more trickery about him which was needed to unlock their defence. In saying that, had Ferguson and Obafemi converted their first half chances, both sitters btw, it would have eased the tension and not necessitated positional/ personal changes at half time.
odowda didnt deserve a start after friday im afraid. i know its a completely different type of game but he was one of our worst players v greece. that kind of performance cant be rewarded. do agree we could have afforded to go with johnston aswell.
on parrott, hes not an out and out goalscorer. dont think we shoudl be looking at him like that now. hes very smart with his movement and hes good on the ball. he will create something for us when hes on the pitch. must have been 3 or 4 times last night where he was waving his arms around like a mad man after making a good run yet he wasnt given the ball. hes definitely more of a 10 than a 9.
ferguson gives us a lot of flexibility. he can be a lone man up top in a 4-3-3 or he can play in a 2 etc. kenny needs to be more flexible with his formations going forward.
I have to admit I had to watch the match on a recording as I had a commitment last night. I watched almost all of it as if it was live but put it on 2x normal speed from about 30-45 mins to try to get to bed before midnight. Was that when Ferguson missed his chance? I don’t remember it.
He had a header from a central position about 30 minutes in which he glanced a bit wide from a McClean cross.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Has he ever really been the type to play an incisive forward pass in the final third? For me he does his best work on the half turn in our half to get us moving but I've never thought of him as a creative spark. I'm not sure we really needed him yesterday. Hendrick, for all his faults, might have been the way to go as he does play a nice ball through the lines. Cliche city here.
Or Cullen might just be shattered after a pretty long season. He was so poor against Greece and that's the game we really needed him for. We couldn't control the game at all and a lot of that was down to his decision making. He wasn't alone but he stood out more because of his role.
In fairness to the Kazakhs they can only beat what's in front of them and although it was only a win by 1 goal they had a long journey etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
More interesting results today from this perspective... Luxembourg beat BiH 2-0 away from home, Moldova beat Poland at home, Portugal needed a last minute winner in Iceland, Slovakia edged by Faroe 1-0 at home. Given where we are, there is no divine right to win anymore. Very few gimmes left in European international football.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Lots of bad managers in international football these days :)
This has been the way for a long time imo and the gap between easy-beat minnows and the middle-class of European teams is only getting tighter, bar a few unfortunate exceptions (hello San Marino).
Pundit class do my head in when they talk about games like this, like Ireland should be honking Gibraltar 7-0. One look at any European window tells you what's happening in international football, but why do that when there's a tub to be thumped.
Anyhoo - Monday was irrelevant, nice to win by three but it was Friday that mattered and we blew it.
The Senior National Team Manager role isn't about "development" or a "project". It's about results and qualification. Development and projects need to start at the bottom and build to the top, not the other way around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
If we had a functional organisation I'd agree, but we don't
Post might be more appropriate elsewhere but I'll let mods decide that.
First half vs Gibraltar was too pedestrian. Too many short passes, when the longer wider pass was on in the first place - just like Greece executed against us on Friday. There was no real tempo to the play. Of course it doesn't help when your top two play ****e, don't really move and have the touches of rapists in the build-up play. This wasn't helped by similar inadequacies from the players behind, Cullen in particular.
Willy Smallbone was poor. Showed no great link-up with Knight in general and rarely provided a good outlet for balls, for overlapping or for pushing inside.
Jamie Knight was far more productive and thought he contributed very well throughout both halves.
I was surprised Parrot was brought on vs Greece but didn't start vs Gibraltar. I was very surprised that 3 cbs started - if he wanted that protection, and didn't want to drop any of them, then he could have gone with the two cbs and played one of them in front (Collins perhaps the obvious one).
However, if OShea was fit enough to play vs Gib (and I thought he played very positively - with the one brainfart exception) then he should have started in Greece. He's astute, tactically aware and an absolute dog of a defender.
I was impressed with the change of tempo, tactics and personnel in the 2nd half. It looked to me like someone bollicked the players at ht. The Johnston change had to happen, and to be honest Obafemi should have been hooked at ht too - he was awful for the time he was on the pitch. What I liked about Parrot and Johnston is that they both went for the jugular every possible time - either by attacking their peripherary or through the gaps that were appearing, and had the ability to exploit them. Parrots movement throughout the second half was superb - he looked on it from the moment he stepped onto the pitch.
First competitive goals for 3 players, three young players, in the same game must be some sort of record. and whatever about the simplicity of Johnston's finish for the first - that goal came about because the time attacked that central core of the Gibraltar defence, which we hadn't done sufficiently in the first half. we got the reward for being brave by their defender havign to improvise to prevent a good opportunity in the centre of their box - the goal is deserved.
and finally we started trying some shots from distance; we didn't score, but it forced them to not just drop and drop and drop, it forced one out each time and we had personnel to play those tricky but executionable passes in the danger areas into space and then putting in decent balls that are an attackers dream.
As others have said, this window wasn't good for a few players, but it was good for some others.
Cullen, Smallbone, Doc, Obafemi, Egan all saw performances drop off the required level - you could possibly put Nathy Collins in there too, while Parrot, Johnson, Knight and Ferguson all stepped up a gear again (on Monday's pf, rather than Friday).
I thought Ferguson looked a far superior player with Parrot, McGrath and Johnston around him and was much more involved in link-up play and taking the ball on. He was constantly talking to Parrot on and off the ball in the 2nd half, while didn't seem to be doing much in the first.
Where that leaves the side come September god knows...