As a joke after your genius comment about Jack Charlton, still doesnt answer the question who you would actually pick instead of Parrott and IdahQuote:
Originally Posted by Snapshot
As a joke after your genius comment about Jack Charlton, still doesnt answer the question who you would actually pick instead of Parrott and IdahQuote:
Originally Posted by Snapshot
There's a massive difference between the World Cup and qualification matches. I've shown you they drawn and lost 7 matches since 2020 in qualification and Nations League matches. They are not invincible. If it wasn't for this manager we'd be eyeing up a draw here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Should he be planning for the future or planning to try win the games in this international window? If hes selfishly just trying to keep himself in the job I would assume hes picking what he believes are the best possible players to win now. He has introduced plenty of players into the squad in his tenure which benefits the future of Irish football, the 18 year old striker in the squad was picked in the last window when no one was calling for that. We can argue over whether hes picked the right players but I think its unfair to have a dig at him for not thinking about the future of Irish football when he has games to go win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Both. Blooding players in the Latvia game has no bearing on qualification plus he's holding frontliners back for the France game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Bazunu, Kelleher, Travers, Collins, Omobamidele, O'Shea, Molumby, Knight, Sykes, Smallbone, Obafemi, Idah, Parrott, Johnston, Ferguson..... 15 players out of squad of 25 who are all aged 25 and under. Seems to me that is pretty good planning for the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
My Charlton comment was genuine. Your reply was nonsense. Own it and move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Still wont answer the question. Since you want to play like the days of Jack I assume you have players in mind to suit that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshot
Sure half of those are first team starters and most are established squad members? Might as well just shut the door on everyone else so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
A chunk of the squad are 30+ and we have very little aged 25-29. We can't just stop blooding players just because there's a number of younger lads already in there. We have to keep bringing players through as there's plenty of spaces to be filled in the next couple of years.
I agree that we have to continue bring in players, Im just making the point that its unfair to say that he is not giving consideration to the future. I also dont think there are any glaring omissions right now. I can see Coventry, Hodge, Connell, Azaz, Lyons, Ebosele, Moran, Zefi and Cannon all being in consideration in the not too distant future. Cannon obviously has the most immediate possibility based on current form, but I dont think its a disgrace that any of the others are not picked just yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I'd say Johnston is being brought in to train and have a look, I'd say zero chance of involvement in France game, slight chance he gets a few minutes against Latvia. I'd say Keane may have only scraped in with the doubt over Idah. Manning is obviously not favoured, and not rated or trusted by management and it's a marginal call anyway. There's no glaring omission, Hourihane is gone and that was the main change most of us hoped to see. There's a strong starting 11 in there, and there's still a lot of inexperienced players who will benefit from the Latvia game.
I think a draw against France is definitely achievable. If we roll over and get a hammering then that's it for Kenny. A surprise win and the sky is the limit again!
Ferguson gets a good 45 mins, Smallbone gets a good run, Sykes too. They all do well. Hardly a waste?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I maintain my view that while I’m underwhelmed, there are still iterations of what’s available that could be very interesting.
And I don’t get the general criticism of still relying on Coleman and Doherty. Coleman has shown lately that he’s a seriously good player. Doherty’s lack of game time is a worry, but is a fit-but-not-match-fit Doherty worse than Manning, COD, McNamara, Lyons option on either side? Debatable.
I’m hopeful. I think our pacy forwards can cause trouble if used well and if the ball falls their way. I believe in our young defenders. I think Egan can play at a higher level than he does. I love how Cullen plays. And France always have some poor results in qualification.
Don't waste your time Razor. He'll ignore this like he does everything and just return with another trolling one-line anti-Kenny snipe in a few days or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Answer the questionQuote:
Originally Posted by Snapshot
McGrath is a head shaker and Johnston has not earned a place in our squad yet.
edit: I said disappointing - I'm going to upgrade that to a "fckn brutal". About as conservative as it could have been. How in gods name is Johnston in our squad now?[/QUOTE]
I said on the Coventry thread there'd be no major surprises in inclusions/exclusions or others. Why are people surprised here? This is Kenny. I don't think it's fair to act differently like it's another stick to beat him with. He's been consistent. His backers have clearly said, as kenny himself has that he was building to 2024 qualifying campaign. Why would he be making changes to his squad now at this stage, bar Johnston he isn't and he has stuck to his word. I get the feeling there's people the other side of the river trying to find any means to get across now.
He knows he needs a decent result against France and he's doing that by ensuring a settled squad where everyone knows what's expected of them and how to play the game he wants. The focus will be on France from the get go. The one wildcard is a good motivational tool to bring in that element of surprise into the group. I don't think anyone can say this wasn't expected, hed made it clear johnston was getting in and as we'd all said before the whole way it appeared a month before france was proof of that.
Cannon or Ogbene in 4-5-1.
Evan Ferguson is also a new call up to a competitive qualifier squad and what about Sykes and Smallbone?Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
I count 4 newcomers in all. Friendly minutes don't count in the scheme of things
Why quote me Paul? :) I said elsewhere, maybe this thread and others, that I thought there was a natural point here to stick or twist (show conservatism or stay true to his mission) and that I’d have hoped for a few other names in there. I thought Manning was a cert (not a new name but a form call) and had hopes for Szmodics or Azaz ahead of McGrath (form calls). SK signalled Johnston but I don’t think any of can say that there’s much evidence it’s the right call. The rationale doesn’t land with me (we have Ogbene as a wide right option). As exgrad pointed out very hilariously, these aren’t really difference makers against that French squad but those are 3-4 players I’d have liked to see in there and where, I thought, with Latvia to play, the timing would make some sense. The spine of what’s got him to this point (a preferred 11-15 players) would still be left intact with those changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Who’s on what side of this river of yours by the way? :)
I don't see it Stu, the brutality, in truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Sykes / Smallbone / Ferguson are all very new, all without a competitive cap in fact. He wants to look at Johnston & with Smallbone knocking around a similar creative area of the field, at least he knows what he'll get from McGrath, if you get me ? The other two are completely unproven.
Keane is underwhelming but we aren't exactly leaving an Ibrahimovic at home for him, the only maybe would be Cannon & Ferguson looks better, simply put & you can't blood them all with France looming ( well you can but that would suit France fine ) & that's if Cannon was ready & willing to play senior for us, at this stage, whatever Crawford has said.
Browne is there, but he also has a few goals to his name. I wish we had better, but do we ? Hourihane isn't there & Brady saved Kennys job with a penalty recently & he's not there despite starting Saturday for his club.
McLean is there, Manning isn't. McLean hates the other team having the football, Manning doesn't seem too bothered, let's a lot of runners go past if you notice. Again.... France ... etc. Ideally neither, ideally we have better than both, but we don't.
Travers is lucky IMO, O'Leary & Bonham both actually playing. But its cones duty third keeper we're talking about there, it's not going to impact much
My one gripe would be not looking at Coventry or Hodge for the Cullen role because I sure as s h i t wouldn't like to see any of the others trying to do it anymore, and I think a two yellow suspension for Cullen is likely through the group, he'll be dealing with somebody else's fu ck up giving away possession a lot.
Yes there are players we'd ideally not be needing to pick in this squad, but what's equally key is the lads who didn't make it all need to do more, in fairness.
It was never going to be out with all the old & in with all the new for a potentially tenure ending game v the WC finalists. We've got to keep France honest.
Well firstly… this is not the first time I’ve gone a little bit OTT and dramatic on here :) and hands up, a bit guilty again on that count, in retrospect.
That said, as per my post above, it’s about 3-4 players who possibly only make sense against Latvia for the reasons you and others point out abou staying competitive v France. But… you still have a Kenny appropriate 11 v France.
Bazunu
Doherty
Egan
Collins
O’Shea
McClean
Cullen
Molumby
Knight
Obafemi
Parrott
Bench still strong too in that respect, includes:
Kelleher, Travers, Omobamidele, Hendrick, Browne, Ferguson, Keane, Ogbene and rest of the boys
Only gets hairy if you don’t trust Manning (point is fair enough) as you’re a bit light to cover McClean (Doherty serviceable). And maybe in the McGrath role of it is too soon for Sykes or Azaz and too late for Szmodics.
Anyway…I still think it’s a fair concern but is it “fckin brutal”? Nah.
Azaz is interesting but its division three, Curtis looked great there, Harness for a bit, Scully did enough to get a move up & promptly vanished. Clubs generally in that league don't have much by way of international players, whereas clubs in the Championship do. Its a big jump, between those two & I'm ok with seeing how his game translates higher up before hammering Kenny there.
Worth a look in a friendly though? It might be a bit soon but he’s proven in a league where McGrath was a total failure and he’s on the books of Aston Villa and, I believe, highly thought of. We’ll see true enough. Just not anytime soon.
Ronan was on the books at Wolves, and for longer, got closer to the team too, it didn't amount to anything in the end. I see your point, we aren't good enough so why stick, keep twisting & seeing if we can improve, and you're right, just maybe in a window where France or similar aren't up next y'know.
Considering we now have the squad now, as much as some want to argue over it, how would ye approach the 2 games?
If it was my choice Id be starting our team for the France game against Latvia and make changes after an hour. The time for experimentation is over, it's sh1t or get off the pot time and we should be trying to get as settled a team as possible in the next few games. I hope we have a bit better luck with injuries this campaign too, it felt like we were always missing a few players last time around.
Moving into match week I'm starting to get excited about the games. I'd love to be flying home for them, it's the one big thing I miss living so far away.
So long as neither starting eleven or on the hour refreshments contain Browne, McGrath or McLean says you :) :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Yeah, something like that it the likelihood I spose.
Idah is a doubt & Johnston won't be expected to feature majorly as its his first rodeo with us according to SK on RTE. Idah asked not to be left out while there's a chance.
Don't forget our auld mate Jeff, we don't want to see him either...... but I've a feeling we might. France are a big team in midfield and our lads are mostly Hobbits. He could start Hendrick to add a bit of size in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
He was desperate for Reading the other day, commentators even named him & one other specifically, said you can't bring what he brought in midfield & expect anything other than a beating. Several passages featured him twenty yards behind breaking opponents closing in on goal as he jogged in their general direction in his own time. Still, fully expect him to be involved but that's where we're at.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
I think he's awful, and agree that if he's involved we could be in trouble, but I can also see a potential rational for picking him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
His worst is pitiful but he also has played good games for Reading. Indeed Hendrick (4), Szmodics (5) and Sykes (5) have scored 14 goals to date, more than some of our futurist forwards. I'd worry more about Molumby. His tenacity and gutsy approach is admirable but being so outclassed would render him a red card waiting to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
I’m surprised at Brady’s omission. He’s been one of our best players the last few times he’s played
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
id be pretty disappointed if kenny used this game as another one for starting the first 11. Cullen shouldnt see the pitch IMO. Hes played loads with burnely, give him some time off and lets see someone else in his role. id like smallbone and sykes to get starts. ferguson in for 60 then take him off. wonder will kenny change formations given johnston is included? he sounds like an out and out wide player would be a bit silly to have him in one of the two no.10 positions. wouldnt mind seeing himself or ogbene out wide, never been a fan of ogbene when he has his back to goal up front.
This is just silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
France were a 119th minute world class save away from being world champions. They're a side with quality all over the pitch we can only dream of. They are so superior that they could come to Dublin and win by 3 goals and it still wouldn't automatically be a terrible night for Kenny. There could still be positives in defeat. I'd even say the same about the Dutch, albeit to a lesser extent.
The idea that Kenny needs a good result against France isn't one I'd agree with myself. He needs solid performances against the French and the Dutch.
He needs results against Greece and Gibraltar.
I think the games are too different for that. France we need to set up for minimal time on the ball, maybe backs to the wall defending, an outlet up front who can hold the ball up and so on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
If we set up that way against Latvia, we're in for a tedious 90 minutes cos they'll likely do similar. I'd rather use the Latvia game to work out why we can't take the game to smaller teams (Malta, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Gibraltar...(!))
I'm expecting nothing pointswise from the Frace game, no matter who the manager is. This will make a draw or a win all the more enjoyable. A draw would be an excellent result. As long there are bouts of fearlessness and ambition from the Irish team, I'll be happy. Looking forward to seeing Ferguson, in particular, but also Knight. Coleman has been playing well recently too. Cullen, of course. And Collins.
If I had to be rational about it, I'd say 2-0 France, but it's Patrick's Day today, the only day of the year that it's legal for Irishmen to have hope for the future, so I'm focusing on the notion that a young and inexperienced Irish team against the Almost World Champions(TM) is the kind of background story that sporting legends are made of. It's the hope that kills ya, so 1-0 Ireland.. a moment of brilliance from Ferguson prefered, but will take an OG from Benzema too.
Well Benzema's retired, so I wouldn't hold out much hope of that! :p
I think I'd still come at the Latvia game quite open minded and play some lads that havent had much interaction with the squad to date or havent played much under Kenny. Would probably expect to see Doherty and Collins get at least 60 minutes to give them some game time. Same, maybe, for Omobamidele and O'Dowda. In midfield would be nice to see Smallbone and/or Sykes get a start and I'd agree with Jd about not worrying too much about game time for Cullen. Up top you'd be hoping to see Ferguson get a start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
For France, I'd probably go with something along the lines of what I posted in post #99 but with some tweaks in midfield and possibly Ferguson for Parrott.
Proof that we have them rattled already! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
This is about Ireland, not Kenny. Your whole post is about what's best for him. And it's not just you. There's an obsession with what Kenny needs to stay in the job rather than what's good for Ireland. He doesn't need results against Greece and Gibraltar. Ireland need results against them along with Holland and France. It's not very likely but we have a chance to qualify from this group. Never have we given up before a ball is kicked before this. We've got victories and draws against far better teams on paper than us before.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Some people might say they don't care about qualifying for major tournaments any more. Well, I'm not one of them and I think the majority of Irish fans aren't either. We go into a qualifying group looking to qualify, not aim for third. In a group like this, we look for the top team to win home and away against the second seed. So France to get 6 points off Holland. We sneak a point against France. We have one of those famous nights at home to Holland, try to knick a point away to them and then beat Greece and Gibraltar. I couldn't care less who the manager is, it could be Kenny, it could be anyone but that should be the aim and we've always held out some hope that we could achieve that. Yes, we'd need an element of luck but it's not impossible.
All that can be asked of a manaer is that they maximise the resouces at their disposal.
I don't think that our resources give us a reasonab;e chance of beating or even drawing with France, so failure to do so doesn't automatically mean Kenny failed to maximise the resources (although the performance itself might indicate that).
I care about qualification. but I'm also (I believe) realistic about our chances of qualifying, which are very very limited given the top two seeds. I'm realistic abut whether we'll get what we need to qualify.
You said earlier you'd be confident of getting something from the French game if we had a better manager. I don't share that confidence, and tbh, I don't believe it. I think you are building up our supposed chances of getting something out of the France game just so you can say it's Kenny's fault if/when we don't get anything.
If Kenny was managing France, and had in his squad 3 players from Bayern Munich, 3 from Milan, 2 from Real Madrid and one each from Arsenal, Atletico Madrid, Barcelona, Borussia MG, Chelsea, Frankfurt, Liverpool, Lens, Leverkusen, Marseille, Monaco, Nice, Paris SG and West Ham, I'd be expecting him to deliver a comfortable win against Ireland.
No, it's Kenny's fault we have a tough draw and a 50/50 chance of getting a play off and that people are writing off our chances before we even begun but losing to France is the expected result. But losing against teams like France and all the top seeds we've played over the years is always the expected result. Yet we've only lost 4 home qualification matches since the Brian Kerr reign in 2005. 18 years. We punch above our weight and with a decent manager, we have the players to compete. We did before Kenny arrived and we will after he goes. Holland are no better than Denmark and Switzerland who we came very close to qualifying ahead of pre Kenny.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
I want Kenny gone because he isn't maximising the resources available to him, we have a far less chance of qualifying for a major tournament because of results achieved under his term and he has shown he's not capable at this level. But probably the main reason I want him gone now is because it's all about him. People keep talking about what results he needs to save his job, what would be acceptable for him to continue. Kenny himself picks squads and team selections with saving his job in mind, the development of our players has been ignored. I want to go back to actually talking about our players and the quality they have instead of talking them down and targeting 3rd position. Kenny was supposed to be the man that brought positivity back but I've never seen Irish supporters so negative.
But I'll be cheering him on against France and in this group. I want this thing turned around and I don't care who does it. I don't think he's in any way capable but I will be delighted if I'm wrong. But if he doesn't then everyone needs to start putting Irish football first. It's far more important than one man.