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That's the thing though other clubs HAVE been in this situation and were forced to play games. FAI need be to consistent with their rules here. Dundalk play Rovers on Friday week, which is before a playoff game. We should be insisting that they play that game as we were forced to in 2020 before our playoff game.Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
What clubs have been in the situation where they played a domestic game on the same day they landed back from a Euro tie?
Dundalk arriving in from Russia the morning before a Cup final is literally the exact same as every LoI side playing an away game in Europe and isn't the same thing as arriving in on the morning of a game
Nope. If it was Derry, unless we'd be explicitly told by the FAI that the fixture would be postponed, I'd want us playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
It's not that I want to see Shels get handed the points, it just seems like that may be the outcome here.
I meant that other clubs have been forced to play games after returning from European matches with requests for cancelation rejected. Pats shouldn't be rewarded here for poor logistics.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
It's only the same thing if Pats are expected to fulfil the fixture. I'd imagine the rules are pretty rigid on this as they should be. There is a massive advantage here for Pats not playing this fixture regardless if they were home on Friday morning or Sunday morning.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Well ok. I do agree that if the issue is that Pat's didn't book the trip properly, then that's tough. If they had an agreement with a charter who then bailed, I'd be more understanding. I can't see there's a third option to explain what's happened here. I presume either way they've been in touch with the FAI since the problem emerged, which is why I think Sat morning for this to break seems quite late (I know the FAI/Shels may have known before it was publicly announced)Quote:
Originally Posted by Louth4sam
Even if a charter let them down there was plenty of options to get some/all of the squad back. Although travelling to matches by charter is required under UEFA rules there is no rule that says you can't travel back commercial. I would be very skeptical on the effort put in to getting back for this game if they think they can get away with it. This doesn't just impact on Shels but all teams trying to qualify for Europe, Pats have now put themselves in a position where they don't need to rest players and will likely have a full strength team available if the game was replayed at a later date.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Take the tinfoil hat off. No LOI club has the money to deliberately extend their stay in a hotel just to try and get a game called off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louth4sam
If the game is rescheduled in during the rest of the season in a midweek slot for example, it’s the exact same scenario for pats who will likely have to shuffle the starting 11 anyways with a game the previous and following Friday a strong likelihood.
It's not Paris or New York we're talking about. Accommodation could be sourced for a couple of grand easily in Bulgaria. I suspect that Pats are trying to pull a fast one here and it'll be interesting to see if the FAI let them away with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract
And you're fooling nobody with the exact same scenario. Playing the likes Finn Harps or UCD with Shels sandwiched in-between can't be compared to playing a very good European side.
Predictably you’ve picked the bottom 2 teams in the league but anyways, I’m obviously not comparing the standard of Finn Harps and UCD to CSKA Sofia. You said if the game was rescheduled then pats wouldn't have to rest players which is not the case. If they were to play 3 games in 7 days it’s highly unlikely they’d play the same 11 in each of those games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louth4sam
Whats the financial benefit to Pas if they progress?
I've seen it as €750,000 if eliminated in the playoff round. At the moment we get €550,000 for the third round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
300k per round in total. 100k for travel from UEFA per round you play in.
Ok so throw in a a rough average of €15 per ticket x 6k x 2 so almost €200k (a free hit at Basel or Brondby and if the home tie isnt a complete dead rubber). Sponsorship opportunities, intangible stuff like prestige, improved ranking in future years, personal ambition for players, nice addition to coaching CVs etc. So a result in one game could earn about €500k(?) gross for St Pats. It's not quite the stuff of 'tinfoil hat' to consider the possibility that a club may do what ever it can to maximise its chances of progression including being willing to spend additional money on hotels, resting players, considering what could be gained. If Dundalk were in a similar position as St Pats currently I wouldnt dismiss the possibility that it could suit the club to not be able travel home for a domestic game in hope that it could conveniently be explained away as part of a general trend in air travel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nah Nah Nah Nah
Its not a slur on St Pats to be curious about what has happened, it'd be pragmatic to try imo, especially if they feel they can get away with it. They may genuinely have been let down, or their admin made a balls of the travel arrangements and have had to scramble to limit any problems caused. For all Pats fans that have questioned how supporters of other clubs would react if their club was in this umm... pickle, would they not also be asking question if it was another club involved.
Its not a benign bit of rejigging fixtures - there are clubs, my own included, that are in a very tight battle for a top 3 (or 4th) place so anyone trying to get a questionable advantage will be scrutinised. Shels will probably just agree to a refixture but getting the walkover puts them withing striking distance of 4th place and the possibility of a European slot and ye couldnt argue with them for looking at their options.
Shels don't sound like they are just happy to accept a re-fixture and they definitely wouldn't just accept a walkover and losing out on a five figure sum of matchday revenue
Shels may look to the precedent back in 2016 when Athlone's players went on strike resulting in non-fulfilment of their away fixture to Waterford and Waterford were awarded both a 3-0 walkover and Athlone's final home match against Waterford was moved to the RSC to compensate for Waterford for losing the cancelled match at home. I can't see the FAI having to balls to do anything like that on larger scale in the Premier Division unless there is absolutely clear evidence of Pats trying to pull a fast one
Not in these circumstances to be fair. Air travel is chaotic at the moment, which is why I’d suggest we deserve the benefit of the doubt. In previous years it wouldn’t have been an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louth4sam
I dont think anyone is shouting for St Pats to be sanctioned if theres genuine mitigation and it wouldnt be too hard to provide the FAI with paperwork that shows that things were legitimately beyond St Pats control eg a last minute charter being pulled so getting the benefit of the doubt. But maybe the rules dont allow for the benefit of the doubt and hands are tied which wouldnt be fair and amendments would be made for a new season, Shels are not agreeable to a simple refixture or had already refused such a request, or St Pats are struggling to show that things were beyond their control. If they cant show this I doubt there is a benefit of the doubt rule that the FAI can apply 'deserved' or not! The FAI are not known for swift decisions on this sort of stuff but the longer it goes on without being put to bed the more it should be a worry for St Pats fans ye have to think.Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
St Pats are saying that from the start of the week they were in constant contact with both the FAI and UEFA about the difficulties they were having so I don’t think there’ll be an issue about the trail of paperwork.
That paper work will help of course but its only a piece of the puzzle, how do you prove that efforts were made to get people on commercial flights in time. It would have made sense for the FAI statement to reflect this, how hard would it have been to say that the FAI the were in regular contact with St Pats. Shels should have been told the fixture was at risk as soon as St Pats spoke to the FAI so could have taken the heat out of their annoyance. It still goes to a disciplinary hearing where a case has to be made and then accepted and for Shels not to appeal, maybe Pats to appeal the appeal - it'd be like some of the good old days.
Message me if you don't already know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Imagine if Ollie Byrne was still around , he'd be doing some digging through the rule book to get Pats a 15 point deduction
There was a similar incident between Drogheda and Shels years ago, early 2000's. I don't remember the details but I believe Shels were the team in Europe at the time, they asked for the game to be moved from Friday to Sunday which was accommodated but then they asked to move the game from Sunday to a different day which they were told to take a hike over. I believe at the game Ollie had a physical interaction with a local Drogheda journalist as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen Of Aherlow
Maybe some Shels/Drogs fans with better memories than me will remember the specifics.
His spirit lives on in Drumcondra.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen Of Aherlow
I think there a couple of games at Tolka around 04/05 where there was aggro and verbals going with Ollie and some Drogheda personnel. One of the games he was accused of assaulting that Drogheda journalist but everyone who witnessed confirmed he never put a hand on himQuote:
Originally Posted by mackend6
Has there ever been a profile piece or biography on Ollie - from suing his own club to doing time never mind the later fun and games at Shels under his charge, it could make a great read! Isnt there acts of assault possible without ever touching a person?
Yep - battery is when you actually lay hands on someone. Assault is making someone think you're going to lay hands on them.
im putting that in the things i learned today thread :)Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
More info on the Pats flight situation here. They had 2 charter flights home cancelled on them and then had to get players home on several separate flights, arriving between 6am and 6pm on Sunday. If shels are given a walkover in those circumstances it would be an absolute joke of a decision
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soc...swaps-27712374
Newstalk had a documentary piece about him - more info here https://www.newstalk.com/sport/never...es-reds-692213Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
I can't see the actual file though so you may need to go looking to find it.
It's embarrassing that the first two words of that headline are 'Liverpool fan'. I presumed you'd linked the wrong article for a second.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract
The mirror is an awful rag. I know the Irish Sun is no paper of record but their LOI coverage is normally excellent.Quote:
Originally Posted by sadloserkid
Paul O'Hehir in the Mirror is a fine LOI reporter, in fact LOI coverage across print and online is fantastic. Nothing wrong with the 'Liverpool fan' intro, he was simply looking for hook for his story that may attract readers.
Wasn't having a go at the journalist himself, the headline was probably crafted by a sub editor. In general the journalists covering the LOI do a good job getting articles into their papers about the league. If I do buy a newspaper these days it would only be for LOI content so tend to go for The Sun. The papers in this country (as most) can be split into two categories Tabloid celebrity nonsense rags or doom & gloom broadsheets.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
Similarly I like the journalist and I'm fine with the story itself. I still think it's an awful headline.
Could they have not 'scrambled' commercial flights to arrive back by the Saturday to fulfil the Sunday fixture? I believe that's what the FAI are looking into and Shels are questioningQuote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract