Your a patriot, but a crazy one! Pukki is a far better player
Printable View
Your a patriot, but a crazy one! Pukki is a far better player
Of course right now Pukki is a better player, but hes not a top 5 striker in the Premiership, hes pretty average overall. He was horrific at Celtic. If Norwich were willing to sell him I doubt there would be many top end teams that would look at him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Idah at 20 has the attributes to be excellent if he develops. To say that Pukki isnt untouchable isnt a stretch.
Probably one of the last updates with the new season around the corner:
Nathan Collins played the full game for Burnley against Newcastle: https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/...tm_medium=link
Matt Doherty played all but the last ten minutes in Spurs' glamour friendly against Chelsea: https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/20...?cardIndex=0-0
So have there been major breakthroughs in this pre-season? Probably not - I don't think any young players have really made the case for inclusion in the Autumn qualifiers above those who are already squad members, although Nathan Collins' progress at the start of the season should probably be monitored. In goal, Kelleher is obviously well-liked at Liverpool, but as long as Allisson is fit, he'll be second fiddle, at best. Travers seems to have made progress while Bazunu still seems to need time, which is fine. The ascent of Pym and Bonham to The Championship opens up the option of having Randolph, one youngster and one more experienced keeper in our squads.
In defence, the aforementioned Collins does look well-placed to become an international soon, as does Omobamidele, with McGuinness seeming to be settled at Cardiff. This does give us some good depth for the qualifiers. In midfield, we're looking to the continent, with Johansson, Noss and Patrick getting good minutes. And upfront, James Collins and Adam Idah have made the case to lead the line with four goals each.
I'm glad it happens to someone else as well as me sometimes. Seems Idah is on the way out to Blackburn, either as part of a deal seeing Adam Armstrong going to East Anglia, or a straight cash purchase following Armstrong's transfer. It's unclear how keen Blackburn are, as it seems Norwich are doing the offering - and with other interest (Southampton and Watford) there's no guarantee Armstrong goes to Carrow Road.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
In other news, Norwich's social media account this morning very clear on which player has played the most minutes in preseason - Obamamaldini - only joking Tets, Omobamidele. That appears good for him on the surface - a starting PL CB at 19 having made his pro debut only 4 months ago sounds crazy - but reading the local media just now, it seems they are looking for additions in the centre.
Cannot see Idah being used as a makeweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
That Idah makeweight rumour was published on Twitter by Alan Nixon before somehow becoming interpreted as fact on YBIG. Norwich fans on their forum are not impressed with the idea and he seems to be highly rated on there. Southampton are also in for Armstrong and they have a greater need and greater kitty after Danny Ings' move.
Norwich surely wouldn't let Idah go. There are very few centre forward prospects around the Premiership at his age. I'm not saying he is the next Lukaku but his ceiling feels high.
Reported here as a loan move: https://www.tribalfootball.com/artic...strong-4380832Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
That would make far more sense, be very happy to see him as a regular in the Championship rather than a bit part player in a team that's very likely to struggle in the EPL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
LOL, well I was half right... Pukki not untouchable if they want to sign Armstrong!!
I'd be shocked if they sold Idah, a loan move would make much more sense.
OK, probably the last update before the EPL season starts:
Full games for Idah and Omobamidele but Norwich were on the receiving end of a 3-0 defeat by Newcastle - Clark played most of the game and Hendrick came on for the last quarter for the Magpies: https://www.canaries.co.uk/News/2021...tm_medium=link
Obafemi and Long both played for Southampton in their defeat to Athletic Club: https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/2...tm_medium=link
Connolly started and played 3/4 of Brighton's friendly against Getafe, Duffy was a second-half sub: https://www.brightonandhovealbion.co...tm_medium=link
Conor Coventry is still getting minutes for West Ham in glamour friendlies, coming on for the final quarter of their win over Atalanta. Armstrong Okoflex still making the bench (has messing about in meaningless friendlies for Celtic's B team actually prepared him for a Premier League breakthrough?): https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/...tm_medium=link
Quote:
Originally Posted by samhaydenjr
Thanks Sam, appreciate those updates.
I was looking for Molumby in the Brighton squads, not a single mention of him. No minutes in pre-season, he's not listed on their official website, and has no squad number. Doesn't appear to be injured, and from reading their North Stand Chat forum, it seems like he hasn't even been training with the first team squad. There was expectation that he would be loaned or sold, but even that has gone quiet.
Similar limbo for Duffy. Common consensus is that he's not a starter, they will get reinforcements, but can't be sold or loaned because of his high wages, there are no championship takers.
Lastly on Connolly, either he's got to get a good season-long loan or organised, or he'll be on the fringes of the first-team this season.
Why would Connolly go on loan when he’s getting game time at Brighton? His aim should be trying to secure a starting position, loans are for players who are nowhere near the first team, Molumby for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Not my opinion, their's. I'm simply recording what their forum has been saying, they expect another forward to come in with the White money, and because of welbeck's injury record.Quote:
Originally Posted by CSAD
To be fair I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s more to wanting him out than just his football ( mainly his off field stuff)He would need to score a hat trick to get any sort of credit it seems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
anyone care to do up a provisional squad as things stand right now?
I'd be really interested to see what footiers think are the runners and riders, and how it might change over the next few weeks. Particularly interested in left-back and left-wing back, given Enda Stevens is injured, James McClean hasn't been training with the Stoke squad, and how we've nobody else basically!
Greg Cunningham played the first half for Preston this past weekend as a left wing back. I just can't understand why he can't get into the squads, and if he doesn't get into this one, with Stevens injured and Brady without a club, it won't make much sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Has the Manning experiment failed?
Joel Bagan another to keep an eye on. Starting LB for Mick McCarthy’s Cardiff this season, it seems. Did well on Saturday according to reports.
No, I don't think it's failed, it hasn't been tried!Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Same with Cunningham, he's never been fit enough for an extended period of time. He's always been on the radar tbf, I completely overlooked him, and I wouldn't mind, I'd actually gone through the chship fixtures on Sat and saw he was selected. Unfortunately their manager seems a bit, eh radical, and hooked him at ht when they were level, changed formation and they went to take a hiding.
Saw the twitter talking about Bagan this morning. starting for Mick no less. At least he'll be proficient at whipping balls into corners. I joke, I joke...
I'll have a crack, although I don't think there will be too many changes from where we were earlier in the year - I'm hoping for a lot of breakthroughs over the next 12-18 months, in time for the next Euros, but don't expect a whole lot of change in time for the make-or-break World Cup qualifiers in September, so here goes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Goalkeepers - I like the idea of having one experienced 'keeper as back-up so I would go with Randolph, Kelleher and Pym
Right-Backs - Coleman and Doherty
Centre-backs - Still solid, experienced options here available in Clark, Egan and Duffy - then depending on who's in the first team when the EPL starts, either Collins or Omobamidele
Left-back - Without Stevens, this is definitely a problem, but O'Shea has some experience there so I would give him the shot
Midfield - Ooh this has become a car crash with McCarthy, Brady and McClean all in such uncertain situations - you might think this might make them droppable but none of their potential replacements have Premier League experience, some have very little first-team experience. So assuming they get themselves sorted in the next two weeks, they are in the squad, along with Hendrick. Browne is probably next up and Cullen is looking more and more important (I saw ten minutes of Anderlecht's first game of the season and he looked very involved). And then there's Hourihane - he's come in for a lot of stick but he still has that weapon of a left foot. Horgan has done well and has the experience so he would probably be the final choice. However a case could be made for Ogbene and what his speed could bring if we are chasing a result
Forwards - Collins and Idah have four goals each in pre-season and should probably lead the line. Robinson has started the season very well. If Long plays for Southampton in the next few weeks, he should be included. I really think we need to find a place for Obafemi's pace but Connolly's six caps probably allows him to edge it.
Looking forward to the October friendly against Oman, this is where we could get a couple of new lads blooded in - how many depends on whether we are still in with a shot - based on pre-season and first Championship weekend we should be looking out for Coventry, Kilkenny, Szmodics, Ebosele, Johansson, Noss, McGrath, John Joe Patrick Finn and Elbouzedi (yes, we're that frustratingly close to having a deep midfield). And if he isn't in the September squad, definitely Obafemi. And as a wildcard, Okoflex has been in the West Ham pre-season squads right up to the end
If we go with two up top I wonder if Robinson and Idah has good potential as a partnership. You would have Idah as the focal point and Robinson a bit more mobile and both are decent finishers. It would also keep Connolly in reserve either as an impact player or until he can find a bit of form.
The two up top was obviously used against Georgia. I'm not sure if we will ever end up sticking to a formation. We could be back to 4-3-3 next month.
Good summary by samhaydenjr. Unfortunately, for me, it emphasises a no-man's-land scenario. We're 7/10 in defence, 3/10 midfield and 2/10 in attack. Brady and McCarthy? Both injury crocks, one with no club and the other now in tier-3 equivalent. Knight I like, Cullen and Browne are ok. Hendrick? No more, thanks. Up front - Robinson the only touch of class. Idah yes, if playing and scoring for Norwich. Collins worthy but limited. Those in your last paragraph - good luck to them, because we very much need 2/3 EPL-standard players to progress.
Oh, you didn't ask but . . . we'll probably need a manager soon.
Derrick Williams is definitely an option at left back. Seems to be getting his game for LA Galaxy at centre half but equally comfortable at left-back
unlikely to be given permission to travel from the US though
Based on tonight's performance, I'm going to add Louie Watson as one who could play himself into consideration for the Oman game
Oman?Quote:
Originally Posted by samhaydenjr
Ah yeah, there has to be an Oman friendly coming up...
While it's not his pre-season, in the context of his peers who are in pre-season, where does Elbouzedi stand in relation to the upcoming squads?
Has started the last two games, having been introduced as a sub in the previous two after signing, into an-inform AIK side that are near the top of the Swedish league.
In context, his teammates are internationals with Kosovo, Finland, Ghana, while Nordfeldt is a current Swedish international, Larsson & Lustig only recently retired, Bahoui, Papagiannopoulos & Milosevic all former Swedish internationals, and Hussein a current under 21 international for Sweden.
I'm sure there is a school of thought which would say "he couldn't do it for Bolton or Lincoln and it's only Sweden.." but I think you've provided fairly clear evidence of other international sides that are willing to pick from that league and team. I think that demonstrates a lot. The black and white merchants that might subscribe to the school of thought I set out there might ignore the difference in styles between leagues and the fact that Elbouzedi demonstrated that he had a bit about him at an international level before for our under 21 side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
I would highlight also that he's playing on the right win, a position that you correctly identified as being a problem area for us. Further, he has served Kenny well. There's every chance he gets a call up and I think that it would be great example to set to some of our other players. Where would Ronan Curtis be now if he had moved to Ostersunds when he had the opportunity- League One? Horgan is in League One now and does he remain an option for Kenny? It's not ideal.
The most recent game was a derby game - so starting that signals a vote of confidence in Elbouzedi. That said, he has been a bit invisible (still finding his feet?) and his end product so far has been a bit off. Kenny obviously knows him and given what we have called up in recent squads, he could be in the reckoning. But I don't think he's a senior international at this time.
I'm wondering if this is a fair appraisal of the squad options right now?
1- absolute first-choice,
2- option/backup,
3- squad filler/worth considering(or whatever terminology you're having yourself).
4- youth player stepping up/development/
It's not who I think kenny will select, or how he would rank them, but how we might rank them. I make no distinction between full-back or Wing-back,
Keepers:
1- Randolph
2- Kelleher,
3- Pym,
4- Travers, Bazunu
RB:
1- Coleman,
2- Doherty,
3- McNamara
4- O'Connor
LB:
1- Stevens,
2- Manning,
3- Cunningham, Williams, Bagan
CB:
1-
2- O'Shea, Egan, Clark, Duffy
3- Long, Dunne,
4- Omobamidele, Collins, McGuinness,
CM (6/8/10):
1-
2- Cullen, Knight, Hendrick,
3- McCarthy, Browne, Molumby, Byrne, Kilkenny, Taylor, Szmodics, McGrath
4- Coventry, Gilbert, Johansson, Noss, Finn
RW:
1- Robinson,
2- O'Dowda, Horgan,
3- Elbouzedi, Sadlier, Burke,
4- Ebosele
LW:
1- Connolly,
2- McClean,
3- Curtis, Ogbene, Wright
CF:
1- Robinson, Connolly,
2- Long, Collins, Parrot, Idah,
3- Obafemi,
4- Kayode, Okoflex, Odubeko
There is some overlap, particularly in the wing forward positions, as Robinson and Connolly have both been selected there at times, even though they are probably seen as more of floaters from the middle rather than out and out wingers. I've not included Robbie Brady, because frankly I think it would be a slap in the face to every member of the squad not selected to pick someone without a club. Nothing to do with loyalty, it would be a stupid decision.
I haven't considered any of the League of Ireland players apart from Burke. Tyreke Wilson has shown some really good moments for Bohs, but unfortunately for him Anto Breslin has also been very good - one is likely to want to leave to get regular first team ball - which should be good for us (it's a weak position without doubt). Andy Lyons has been really impressive at times, but not sure he'll ever likely come into the conversation. Dawson Devoy and Ross Tierney will be on 21s duty, that's the best to hope for now. Interesting to see if rovers make the conference group stage and acquit themselves well, would someone like Towell jump up the queue, nevermind Liam Scales.
It's great that he's getting game time in Sweden and everything but I have to be honest and say that, based on what I've seen of him to date, I can't see Elbouzedi ever winning more than a small handful of senior caps for Ireland at the very most. I just don't think he's good enough.
The other thing is that if we are playing 3-5-2 the right wing position is no longer a problem for us and we have plenty of options at right wing back. If we are planning to go back to 4-3-3, after all we have seen using this formation in the last year, I don't really know what else there is to say other than the manager is so far out of his depth that there's not much point commenting further until such time as he's finally put out of his misery at this level, hopefully sooner rather than later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Its a bit like having to pick which one of your friends is going to nab your missus isn't it.
Ideally none of them.
Low tide on talent of an international standard lads, without doubt.
Kingers, any reason McNamara at Millwall isn't there, over maybe O'Connor / Shaughnessy / Bagan / Williams types, I think he can play either side but is right footed and has actually declared for us, unlike Bagan.
Crafty, thank you! It was McNamara I meant, not shaughnessy!
What an Idiot!
So does Shaugnessy even exist ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
The rascal.
What about any of the Dundalk, Bohs, or Shamrock Rovers players? Does their current form in European competition, and history with Kenny in some cases, count towards a call up?
Was he thinking of the Finnish fella maybe?Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
Liam Scales seems to be excelling at the left wing back role for Shamrock Rovers, on the cusp of a big money move, and experienced at under-21 level. Could certainly be worth a shout in a problem position.
Georgie Kelly in super form for Bohs, wouldn't be a dreadful shout for a striker in the squad, considering the lack of goals for us too.
Other than that, I'm not sure there's anything better than what we have available currently.
Really hard to judge that - Jack Byrne deserved his call-up, but probably also deserved to be a squad player. Some nice touches, couple of assists, but also got Hendrick sent off in Wales (was it?) with a hospital pass.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I don't think Rovers/Bohs have anyone at Byrne's level currently. So it comes down to how stuck the senior team are.
Georgie Kelly at a push? Top scorer in the LoI with 16 goals this season, including 4 in Europe. Played under Kenny at Dundalk (mostly off the bench though). And we're really stuck up front. You could maybe make a case for James Talbot on the same basis (Rovers' keeper is an NI international of course)
I don't think either would add anything particular to the squad, but they could be used to pad out numbers in certain areas.
I don't disagree with anything you're written there. I think a year or three there, getting consistent gametime (hopefully) alongside European players, and with the possibility of European football next season, could do him the world of good. I've only seen him for the underage sides, and some snippets for AIK. I've liked what I've seen, but wouldn't be holding out for him to be a great white hope or anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
if McClean isn't getting gametime, Curtis continues to not impose himself in the chances he gets, and Horgan is considered an impact, surely it's imperative the manager considers as many options as possible. Elbouzedi will possibly fall into that catagory. Who knows, maybe Tyriek Wright or Will Ferry end up having a breakout season, and totally jump the queue?
I'm purposely not getting into a discussion on the manager, but a 343 with O'Shea and Coleman flanking a stopper is a lot different to a 352 in how it might be set up, and would utilise wingers.Quote:
The other thing is that if we are playing 3-5-2 the right wing position is no longer a problem for us and we have plenty of options at right wing back. If we are planning to go back to 4-3-3, after all we have seen using this formation in the last year, I don't really know what else there is to say other than the manager is so far out of his depth that there's not much point commenting further until such time as he's finally put out of his misery at this level, hopefully sooner rather than later.
Teams develop, players lose form, players gain form. football changes. one of the reasons we're in the current situation is not trying formations, nevermind developing formations.
he does, but I wasn't thinking of him, I had meant Danny McNamara. Shaughnessy plays for Goodwin at St Mirren.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
I think it probably will, certainly if appearances for squad players are in short supply this season - made a reference to that at the bottom of the post.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I've discussed Kelly with Skstu recently. I think calls for a call-up for Georgie Kelly are crazy. He's scoring goals sure, and in the European games his workrate has been phenomenal when the opposition have the ball, but his link-up play is atrocious, second touch is a tackle, and for a big guy he hasn't held the ball up particularly well. I wouldn't be in favour of it at all to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by nidge
Scales is a different story though. I've only seen bits of him, and couldn't really care less about the Celtic move as I don't think it's the move everyone makes it out to be, but there's no doubt he has quality, his touch is excellent and he appears to be a heads-up footballer, as well as an absolute athlete. We're missing players of his size in the team as well.
Fair appraisal on Byrne, but at the time I thought Hendrick could have reacted better, instead of doing what all irish midfielders of the past 15 years seem to do and wait for the ball to come to them. But we can disagree; agree that there's more scope for considering Talbot, but I wouldn't be totally comfortable with that. He makes some exceptional saves, but some of his decision-making, well, PStu might call it Bazunuesque....Quote:
Originally Posted by CollegeStu
Yeah, I agree I wouldn't be particularly expecting Kelly or Talbot to shake things up particularly. But beggars can't be choosers at this stage.
If we're bringing on Kelly to chase a 3-0 deficit in Lisbon while Ronaldo is still hardly breaking a sweat at the other end chasing his record, then we're definitely in trouble!