Games Weekend 25th September

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

Impetulant children, mid table side, ghost shoves (maybe it was a shadow of a ghost?!) substantial fines, integrity of league damaged...

well at least it is unusual sh!te from the usual suspects! For a good old hammering of a reserve side there is some small bit of satisfaction at the gloating and hand wringing apparent -

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Be interesting to see how the wages of that "reserve side" would compare to Rovers' starting XI. Boyle, Shields, Flores, Kelly, Oduwa, McMillan, Dummigan would all be on very decent money. I know for a fact Dundalk's offer to Kelly was over three times what Rovers offered him. It's completely normal for any team playing in the Europa League to play Thursday and Sunday, and after listening to the incessant noise from Dundalk about this world class squad of 75 first teamers built to compete on every front, the amount of whinging about this game being played is absolutely laughable.

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

Keith long has a good shout at it , have to feel a bit sorry for Giovanni though not getting a crack T a full season

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I know you're probably on the wind up towards Bohs fans, but the Dundalk owners have been warned against going near Long, so don't think that'll be happening. Anyway, Long would be no use unless Croly (the brains at Bohs) was to come with him. If we win on Thursday, the job is Filippo's.

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Originally Posted by Asterix

Dundalk fans have told us their second string would be able to challenge for the league

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I didn't see anyone saying that, and if they did then they obviously haven't got a clue about football.

On team selection, Rovers would have done the same if they were in the situation, but they were useless in Europe so they only have the league to worry about.

As for us, last night was further evidence (not that it was needed) that the recruitment has been a joke since Kenny left. We have a huge squad but we only have about 15 quality players. The rest of it is filled with rubbish. There is zero "strength in depth".

Where's the Dundalk fan that had a horn for Dummigan on here a few weeks ago? Hopefully the club's nonsense PR campaign surrounding him ends now. Although Rovers must have fallen for it as he's apparently on his way there.

Patching (ex Man City, "a moneyball signing", the next Jack Byrne etc), Oduwa (ex Spurs / Rangers), Gatt ("Solskjaer's first signing at Molde"). The supporters have been fed some amount of BS about these signings.

Then there's McCarey. It's hard to believe he was in an Irish squad under O'Neill a couple of years ago. He is the worst back up keeper we've had in years. Add in Flores who has spat the dummy over a contract.

Last night's performance was a disgrace. These guys shouldn't be given a pass. Last night should spell the end of their time with us. That starting 11 costs the club over €15,000 per week. There's an incredible amount of money being wasted by the club.

We shouldn't have been beaten like that. Not even our 2012 team ever got a hiding like that at home.

Thursday's game gives us a shot at nearly €4m, which would help to cover the costs of the mistakes of the past couple of years along with the money lost during Covid. But the recruitment policy needs a serious rethink or it's just going to continue on as it has been.

Losing on Thursday doesn't even bear thinking about.

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Originally Posted by The Lilywhites

On team selection, Rovers would have done the same if they were in the situation, but they were useless in Europe so they only have the league to worry about.

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Rovers played a league game inbetween our playoff against Partizan in 2011, playeed a stong team and won. Its what good teams do. No crying about how unfair it was they just got on with it.

The difference is that Rovers were going for the league when that happened, dundalk had no league winning intentions last night. I've no problem with it, as a Rovers fan.
As for fairness to the other clubs, **** them, this league, more than most, you have to look after yourself first and foremost.

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Originally Posted by Asterix

Rovers played a league game inbetween our playoff against Partizan in 2011, playeed a stong team and won. Its what good teams do. No crying about how unfair it was they just got on with it.

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Not the same situation. Rovers were going for the league in 2011. We played every 3-4 days in 2016 in between European games. We played twice in 5 days after beating Maccabi in the groups. Our priority now is Europe as the league is over, Thursday's game is worth an additional €2.3m, so we were right to play the reserves.

I wasn't crying about the game being played, it's probably best to have it out of the way as we have enough games to catch up on. I'm just annoyed by the performance of some of our players who simply shouldn't be at the club.

Btw, Legia and Lech had their Polish league games called off ahead of their European ties this week, so let's not pretend it doesn't happen in other leagues.

[QUOTE=The Lilywhites;2050464]I know you're probably on the wind up towards Bohs fans, but the Dundalk owners have been warned against going near Long, so don't think that'll be happening. Anyway, Long would be no use unless Croly (the brains at Bohs) was to come with him. If we win on Thursday, the job is Filippo's.


You are right on Croly i did'nt say that but i took it as a given.
What is wrong with Long that you have been "warned off him" ?

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

Impetulant children, mid table side, ghost shoves (maybe it was a shadow of a ghost?!) substantial fines, integrity of league damaged...

well at least it is unusual sh!te from the usual suspects! For a good old hammering of a reserve side there is some small bit of satisfaction at the gloating and hand wringing apparent - hardly surprising that years of frustration is bubbling to the surface in fairness.

Oduwa needs a whole lot of coaching to fulfill any of his potential, not coaching flair out of him just some proper work ethic in working back. Considering Dummigan has barely gotten in to double digits in appearances and was a first game since injury he needed help - a miss by the coaching staff maybe not to ensure that he got cover. Gatt as a signing that has been contentious. Not a reflection on his ability but that he may have been a boardroom signing. I'm not sure Kelly is a starter yet either rather than an impact sub. He is young and bags of potential but can be infuriating with his 1st instinct to 'trip over'. Patching has somthing to prove for sure but hasnt had games to do so. U19s got a serious lesson in the level they need to get to and how much hard work is needed to cut it at senior level so some value to their time on the pitch.

I thought last nights team selection was a chance for some players to stake a claim, some did and some will be gone at seasons end. I felt myself that this was going to be a chastening game if the manager wrung the changes with Thursday in mind. Financially it made sense, not easy to concede a title though, however unlikely it was that the outstanding team of the season would be reeled in.

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Oduwa was the bright spot for Dundalk last night, great pace and a handful at times but his tracking back was shocking, i'm amazed the senior pros in the team let him away with it.
Saw a Stephen Henderson tweet last night that made me smile "Oduwas pace seems to desert him when it comes to tracking runners" :)
A substantial kick in the arse and a bit of coaching and he could be good. Does he want it though or is he happy to just get paid and move on
If he is willing to work he could be excelent

Patching and Gatt were very poor, Sheilds stood out playing at CB

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Originally Posted by Sonny

Be interesting to see how the wages of that "reserve side" would compare to Rovers' starting XI. Boyle, Shields, Flores, Kelly, Oduwa, McMillan, Dummigan would all be on very decent money. I know for a fact Dundalk's offer to Kelly was over three times what Rovers offered him. It's completely normal for any team playing in the Europa League to play Thursday and Sunday, and after listening to the incessant noise from Dundalk about this world class squad of 75 first teamers built to compete on every front, the amount of whinging about this game being played is absolutely laughable.

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It would! But as is the usual rolled out, the board sets the budget and the manager manages it. Maybe board and manager flaws in judgement. The main noise from fans tbh was to question a number of signings, a quick look at Orielweb would clear that up. Those that built the squad were probably the ones that lauded the quality most. There is undoubted depth to the squad but lack of game time and in some cases, quality and coaching, have been exposed. Not necessarily the entire fault of coaching staff.

As for looking for games to be rescheduled, well we know all about a heavy match schedule at Dundalk FC in recent years, from Europa League group stages or running to the final of every domestic competition. Clubs seek posponements, FAI or opponents refuse, game is played, people moan about a subsequent loss - sounds all pretty standard fare. I dont bother with twitter but is there really that much complaining about the fixture? I'm sure that Dundalk FC will be able to prove that there was no intentional weakening of the team for a league game when they point out the wages the 'reserves' are on! Did Kelly have a kitchen sink thrown in with his offer by any chance?

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

It would! But as is the usual rolled, the board sets the budget and the manager manages it. Maybe board and manager flaws in judgement. The main noise from fans tbh was to question a number of signings, a quick look at Orielweb would clear that up. Those that built the squad were probably the ones that lauded the quality most. There is undoubted depth to the squad but lack of game time and in some cases, quality and coaching, have been exposed. Not necessarily the entire fault of coaching staff.

As for looking for games to be rescheduled, well we know all about a heavy match schedule at Dundalk FC in recent years, from Europa League group stages or running to the final of every domestic competition. Clubs seek posponements, FAI or opponents refuse, game is played, people moan about a subsequent loss - sounds all pretty standard fare. I dont bother with twitter but is there really that much complaining about the fixture? I'm sure that Dundalk FC will be able to prove that there was no intentional weakening of the team for a league game when they point out the wages the 'reserves' are on! Did Kelly have a kitchen sink thrown in with his offer by any chance?

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we offered a kitchen sink and you guys threw in an en-suite bathroom
With all the euro millions coming in again , it'll be en-suite bathrooms and throw in a Bidet and gold taps from now on :)

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

Oduwa was the bright spot for Dundalk last night, great pace and a handful at times but his tracking back was shocking, i'm amazed the senior pros in the team let him away with it.
Saw a Stephen Henderson tweet last night that made me smile "Oduwas pace seems to desert him when it comes to tracking runners" :)
A substantial kick in the arse and a bit of coaching and he could be good. Does he want it though or is he happy to just get paid and move on
If he is willing to work he could be excelent

Patching and Gatt were very poor, Sheilds stood out playing at CB

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Ye always worry when ye see a young player with a clatter of past clubs. I think he can be a great Dundalk player but he needs that toe in the hole for sure. Nonchalant or arrogant and thinking he that good, well I havent decided yet and its too soon to be fair to the lad he doesnt come across as arrogant in interviews. I was surprised to see him left out of the match day squad when FG came in (along with Gatt). Henderson hit the nail on the head though with that comment. I think Patchinng will come good and had shown somthing before the league was postponed. Even if Shields has a poor game it is hard to be critical considering what he does give - should be the example of work ethic for the younger lads!!

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

we offered a kitchen sink and you guys threw in an en-suite bathroom
With all the euro millions coming in again , it'll be en-suite bathrooms and throw in a Bidet and gold taps from now on :)

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I'm not convinced the average footballer would know what to do with a bidet;)

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

I'm not convinced the average footballer would know what to do with a bidet;)

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First time I saw a bidet - "Oh look, there's a baby bath too"

Thats just you country bumpkins, our Dublin lads would know their Bidets

I wont offer up the detail of my what my Capital cousin did on his first 'use' of a bidet then :D He may have been 5 at the time but family never tire of reminding him occasionally!! He is a Shels fan too.....

Now this really is off topic but I dont think it needs a thread of its own somehow.

It sums it up that Aaron McCarey when he first started in loi it was monaghan utd all these years ago. I could never get the hype with him at all!

Being a Monaghan native though and got a move to England young. He was a good option as reserve, good age for a keeper to improve too. Now that Rogers is kicking on a bit even for a keeper, whether McCarey can step up to being No 1 is certainly going to be a question. I think he can from what has been seen. But it is a bit strange that his appearances for RoI underage teams make up a good % of his overall appearances including club level. I'd highly rate Steve Williams as a coach, as he was rated as a top keeper also, so if there was a concern about McCarey's ability to step up I hope it'd be flagged as needing to be addressed. Not easy to find real quality and consistant keepers as Rovers fans would know all too well until Mannus returned, which was a big piece of the puzzle to a league winning side. Similar to finding that hatstand that makes chances count, especially in Europe and there isnt a really outstanding goal poacher in the league imo. One thing for sure is that its unlikely to be a quiet close season at Oriel Park, Thursday will be a big influencer but there will be no shortage of intrigue, contract wranglings comings and goings with a huge dollop of wind ups and rumour!

To be fair, Dundalk looked like a side filled with players who hadn't played together before, and hadn't really played much individually either. Rovers weren't amazing either but clinical, and that Jack Byrne goal :ball:

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

To be fair, Dundalk looked like a side filled with players who hadn't played together before, and hadn't really played much individually either. Rovers weren't amazing either but clinical, and that Jack Byrne goal :ball:

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The distance between the two sides that played on Sunday was significant. I don't expect it to be similar if the teams meet again this season.

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

The distance between the two sides that played on Sunday was significant. I don't expect it to be similar if the teams meet again this season.

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No, it won't be. There are a few players there who Vinny Perth was right to think have no business being near a Dundalk team.

Did VP say that? Supporters certainly were thinking so about the odd one. That said there wasnt the greatest of opportunities to get player match sharp with the truncated season. Players in the past ofen took a season before showing form with us. Its hard to judge lads based on a few gamer and a hammering by the form team and champions elect. If a cup game were to happen, as mentioned by Ezeikial, it would be a tighter affair. It would indicate that there very much is a 1st and reserve squad but generally its not been a good season for settling players. Colovic wasnt too badly hampared by the disruption though so limited excuses for others especially if not being at a minimum level of fitness albeit not match sharp.

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

If a cup game were to happen, as mentioned by Ezeikial, it would be a tighter affair.

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In fairness, you would hope that if Dundalk took the game seriously, the result would be different!

All Sunday's result really highlighted was the previously-flagged issues Dundalk have been having with player recruitment the past few years, which their (ageing) EL squad is papering over still.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

No, it won't be. There are a few players there who Vinny Perth was right to think have no business being near a Dundalk team.

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They were signed under Perth's watch, and even if he didn't want some of them, he still played them (and praised them in the press). Filippo has hardly had them near the team since he came in and left the rubbish at home for the Sheriff trip.

Perth is the reason 2 of our best players left at the end of last season. It's his total mismanagement of the squad that has it in the state it's in. It's a pity he wasn't sacked before the CL game.

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Originally Posted by The Lilywhites

They were signed under Perth's watch, and even if he didn't want some of them, he still played them (and praised them in the press). Filippo has hardly had them near the team since he came in and left the rubbish at home for the Sheriff trip.

Perth is the reason 2 of our best players left at the end of last season. It's his total mismanagement of the squad that has it in the state it's in. It's a pity he wasn't sacked before the CL game.

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As a matter of curiousity who were the two players that left as my mind has frozen? Perth when he was with us I wasnt entirely convinced by him as caretaker mgr.Maybe thats why SK rated RH higher than VP for Ireland scouting job?

Pretty sure Benson was one. A fine player, now wasted in a pointless pats team.
Good to see the leagues best player getting a call up to the international team. Hopefully he gets on and shows that an Irish midfielder can get on the ball and demand the ball, not hide like the Scottish guy Mccarthy and Hendrick.

Jamie McGrath the other player I presume. Did he really just leave due to VP, or that money in Scotland was better?

Benson & McGrath were two vital parts of the DFC mf last year, the former was a perfect link to Shields in MF to push forward / pass / score, the latter was getting stronger by the game, and a great option at 10 or on right side, better in the middle though.

It was clear McGrath wasn't re-signing, options in SPL too good maybe not €€ more so a springboard, for Benson rumours ok he didn't get on with VP, also that he wanted less FT and to gradually return to his day job, whatever the reasons, maybe only two players but two huge losses.

Whats also clear now is the player quality that VP signed, apart from Leahy, does not appear to be anywhere near the standard for Dundalk. Maybe D Kelly is another, Murray also started 2019 well, but drifted, now back in good form so he's actually another good player, but can't think of any others signed for start of 2019 who are worth mentioning. Flores may score great goals, too many injuries and not consistent.

Once Rovers scored on Sunday, it was almost indoor football passing and movement from them. Gaps all over the place from us.

Sligo just about the better team tonight getting the late goal. Both sides going out attacking but we can’t score.

You wouldn’t get much argument if you said a draw was a fair result. Shocking miss off the post by ye (at least it sounded like the post even though Stephen Alkin kept saying Teemu cleared)

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Originally Posted by oriel

Benson & McGrath were two vital parts of the DFC mf last year, the former was a perfect link to Shields in MF to push forward / pass / score, the latter was getting stronger by the game, and a great option at 10 or on right side, better in the middle though.

It was clear McGrath wasn't re-signing, options in SPL too good maybe not €€ more so a springboard, for Benson rumours ok he didn't get on with VP, also that he wanted less FT and to gradually return to his day job, whatever the reasons, maybe only two players but two huge losses.

Whats also clear now is the player quality that VP signed, apart from Leahy, does not appear to be anywhere near the standard for Dundalk. Maybe D Kelly is another, Murray also started 2019 well, but drifted, now back in good form so he's actually another good player, but can't think of any others signed for start of 2019 who are worth mentioning. Flores may score great goals, too many injuries and not consistent.

Once Rovers scored on Sunday, it was almost indoor football passing and movement from them. Gaps all over the place from us.

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It's an interesting discussion about where the deficiencies in the Dundalk squad lie. Identifying the departures of Robbie Benson and Jamie McGrath points towards the issues. Even though Dundalk won everything bar the FAI Cup last season, it was obvious to most regulars that problems were mounting in midfield with a lack of creativity and penetration from the no 8 and no 10 positions. Quality additions were needed in these positions in the close season, but instead Benson and McGrath departed and were not properly replaced. Sean Murray, Jordan Flores and Patrick McEleney simply continued on their injury-ravaged form and their collective contribution was woefully inadequate.

I agree that Sean Murray is showing some signs of finding form again, but like you looking for yellow JCB's inside Oriel Park, I'll hold off on judgement. Suffice to say at this point, I doubt he will be at Oriel Park next season

The dundalk 2nd 11 a couple of years ago were arguably the 2nd or 3rd best team in the league.
In some ways the prospect of 15 or 16 players out of contract at years end may be a blessing in disguise.
Hold onto Duffy, Hoare , mceleney (bound to find fitness) gannon and ditch a lot of the rest.

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

McEleney (bound to find fitness) .

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Is McEleney's fitness trouble's a major issue for Dundalk? He's a great player but has missed an awful lot of football in the last year....

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

Did VP say that? Supporters certainly were thinking so about the odd one.

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Not as far as I know, and Vinny would be fairly discreet in what he says, but I think it was obvious about certain players (particularly the lad who went to Athlone) and the open secret of certain players being recommended to start in games.

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Originally Posted by joey B

Is McEleney's fitness trouble's a major issue for Dundalk? He's a great player but has missed an awful lot of football in the last year....

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His absence is always a loss, but if alluding to his lack of availability so often that we should have a fix for him being out injured with a player to cover well yeah, you are right. A number of signings were made with a view to being able to adapt to the McEleney roll. Arguably Flores, Murray, Sloggett, Colovic are versatile enough to cover. Colovic hasnt been tried but the others have with varying levels of success. I have championed Murray as a top class signing, and I still think he can become one of our key players in a number of roles if he can stay injury free and that is the question over him. Flores also if he finds consistancy and is injury free - my issue there is his stance on contract issues where its reported that he wants terms to be improved. He hasnt shown anything more than glimpses that he should be offered a new and better deal.

McEleney is the fastest player in a straight up sprint in the squad. His gait (biomechanics) when sprinting are all over the place though (if anyone remembers Simon Geoghan in the rugby, also often out with similar type injuries to McEleney) leaning back with head over the heels, arching the back, belly/hips forward, arms everywhere, when at full pelt and very much so from a dead start. Straightening up and getting the head more forward so hips are under or slightly behind shoulders would improve things imo. Some time with a sprinting coach would do no harm, and tidy things up to take the unnecessary stresses off that can keep causing muscle strains. Rogers did it to help prolong his career with success. S+C should be on it if not already. Indeed it could benefit the entire squad as it would inject a bit more in explosive sprint starts, save energy, injury prevention and even add marginally to overall pace.

Interesting point on McEleneys Gait,...Trevor Clarke and Grahame Burke both have that shoulders back at full sprint gait.
I always thought Clarke in particular was scary fast while not looking like he was really trying and Burke is amongst the quickest when he goes for it.
Murray was signed as he was in sensational form and i expected him to be at the heart of DFC but he has really disappeared.

Yeah, its kinda why I mentioned bringing maybe only marginal improvements in pace as they are already quick in a natural way. But poor technique will eventually take its toll, especially 25/26+. It's basically that poor alignment means the muscles are working hard to compensate and if its not injury causing it certainly burns up energy unnecessarily. Fine margins count these days and I feel it would be a bit like the edge that was created by improving S+C when SK was manager. Now that teams have caught up on S+C this could be the edge for the first club to work on running/sprinting technique. Without being too technical us average joes, or non specialist athletics runners (like footballers) tend to have a rotary type leg movement and the head bobs up and down. It should be more 'piston' like with an up down leg motion and slightly leaning forward to get that maximum drive off the ground, if done right there is no head movement and looks like its gliding along (like they could be on standing still on a moving walkway, not seeing their feet). There is a lot of lateral movement with McEleney and uses the arms as if he is trying to 'swim' and gain speed. Arms should only pump from 'hips to lips. Anyway its an observation and as there isnt consistant surface or contact injuries, then its probably technique - especially if injury prone already.

Murray I thibk needs game time and luck. He was rushed back from injury before too, He is gradually improving now and needs to stop going missing in games, but thats a confidence

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Not as far as I know, and Vinny would be fairly discreet in what he says, but I think it was obvious about certain players (particularly the lad who went to Athlone) and the open secret of certain players being recommended to start in games.

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To be fair to Taner, he's only a young lad and maybe it was done with a view to striking up a partnership with Harvard. He seems to have done ok with Athlone (well he's scored some goals anyway). Wouldn't criticise him, he was shipped out to Athlone pretty quickly although he still trains with us.

I'd be more annoyed with the nonsense signing of Gatt, a lad who's played little over 100 senior games in 10 years (and was built up as an ex USA international), and the silly reason he was signed (the chairman basing it on a sob story interview).

As for McEleney, it's time to cut him loose. Brilliant player but he's no use to us if he's only playing a handful of games a season, especially with the money he's on. A total waste on the wage bill. Offer him a pay per play or send him back to Derry.

Lot of injuries and breaks they got in other games not happening now.

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

Interesting point on McEleneys Gait,...Trevor Clarke and Grahame Burke both have that shoulders back at full sprint gait.
I always thought Clarke in particular was scary fast while not looking like he was really trying and Burke is amongst the quickest when he goes for it.
Murray was signed as he was in sensational form and i expected him to be at the heart of DFC but he has really disappeared.

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Burkey is in his arse amongst the quickest! ;) I doubt he'd be amongst the quickest in the u11s ffs!

Don't agree with you there.
He is deceptive and especially quick over first few yards