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For all the talk here about supporting our domestic league over our English counterparts theres a lot of Eircom league supporters here supporting Linfield. While theres no law against being a hypocrite it takes away from the smug, self righteous stance often adopted by the many here who look down their noses at the Celtic, Man U etc supporters who are constantly being ridiculed. C'mon Shels.
I don't see how Shels have 'sabotaged' other clubs' squads........yes they sign the best players, but it's up to the original club to keep the player under contract if they want to hold on to them. If they can't do that then the player is entitled to sign for whichever club they like / whichever club offers them the best terms.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohDiddley
I'd say that Bray were glad of the money Shels paid for Jason Byrne.....
But what makes a team Gerrit is there fans. And once again you look at clubs fans with far right political leanings such as Millwall, Lazio, Ferencavors, Real Madrid and Lazio. You would not criticise a Jewish person for having a bias against Lazio, even if a 'minority' of Lazio fans wave around Swatstikas or when they made a banner, go back to Auschwitz. Just as you would not criticise a black person for having a bias against Real Madrid even if its only a 'minority' of fans that are making monkey noises. I see it no differently for a Catholic person having a bias against Linfield. And if you say that politics has nothing to do with football you really do have your head in the sand for the past century.
Linfield are (Northern) Irish, not English. I don't think they will like to be called English themselves, there's a world of difference between English and British. Northern Iron has a quite large fanbase in that area...Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbySands
I know, but I rather don't join in playing that game. And don't forget part of the Linfield support are just as decent anti-sectarian people as you and me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Real Rover
Of course some clubs have a support that leans towards a certain political preference, but that doesn't mean we have to play that game as well. That way we'll never get to ban the link between football and politics, a link that many football fans worldwide would love to see dismantled.
Halo-polishing par excellence. I don't think the position you describe as hypocritical is in the least bit inconsistent.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbySands
Linfield are on the same island and can be seen live without the aid of a ferry, Ryanair jet, or helicopter. I have far more respect for their mainstream, non-bigoted fans, and for fans of any other club on the island (even Shels! :D ) than for E. P. 'supporters'.
I know that not all Linfield fans are bigots and its bad to start branding all there fans but that does not mean that you must treat Linfield like a regular club. it takes a sizeable minority to give a club like Linfield the reputation it has. Trying to deny its reputation while there chanting for fenian blood is frankly naive and a bit ignorant. I think its a bit much to be dressing it up as PR friendly club when the evidence is there to see for the past decades up until modern day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerrit
Also clubs are the fans they represent and because of that clubs also represent the fans many ideoligies which includes politics. For example Livorno are seen as the most left wing club in Italy, Livorno the city was actually the founder of the Communist party in Italy. Hence the fans politics are represented through the club. So i believe that it is naive to think you can separate there ideoligies from there club as it is a major factor why people support there club, because it represents there feelings on a bigger platform.
I wonder what Rovers' political bias is? :D ;)
I prefer to treat Linfield as a normal club just like Shels, Sligo or whatever EL club rather than joining the political issues thing. What happened in the past is the past, and recently I've seen some nice effords from clubs as Linfield to ditch sectarianism and ban it from their stands. It may take a while before the minority crying for Fenian blood is completely gone, but they do make effords - so why not trying to move on and see them as a regular club ?? There is ink and there is Typp-Ex. The typp-ex is there for a reason ; sometimes we have to try to forget the past reputation or acts of someone and try to move on with the current form of the person or in this case club. The current Linfield fans and board have made effords towards banning the sectarian element, so I prefer watching at that rather than keep on nagging about a part of their fans that is becoming more and more a minority.
And what you say about Livorno, Ferencvaros, Real, etc makes sense, but you should not forget that a club cannot literary ban every single troublemaker from coming to their games. No club can prevend some people with less good intentions from entering their ground. To use a fictive example, if a neo-nazi starts to support Shelbourne and comes to the games, does that make Shelbourne a neonazi club ?? Don't think so...
And off the record: as far as I know there are no such people in the Tolka stands, so keep funny comments on this example for yourself please :D
Read what I've said here and elsewhere. My hatred of Shels has never been a secret and pre-dates them winning trophies. I hate Shels for many reasons, very little to do with the amount of trophies they've won.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra Red
I spend time on other message boards, to talk to other fans. As I have clearly pointed out, more than once, I have nothing against Shels fans, its the club I hate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra Red
LOL :D :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Slash/ED
rubbish, absolute and utter rubbishQuote:
Originally Posted by BobbySands
Though choice! Dublin scum or Northern scum? :confused: . Dublin scum it is :D :p
Anyone But Shels. To hell with the politics. For practical reasons as much as blind hatred :p The last thing we need is $hels getting their hands on more wads of dosh.
I WILL BE SUPPORTING FORZA SHELS OF COURSE :) :) :) :)
were going to teach the Irish league a lesson about footie ;)
Its nothing really to do with politics. The majority of Linfield fans hate us Irish. I don't know how any Irishman could support them.Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
I hate Linfield but that's a pretty sweeping statement by anyone's standards!! :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
You've conducted a poll of all Linfield fans then have you? Majority me hole. Most of them probably couldn't give a ****. They're football fans- fair enough they may have different politics to me or you, but that's irrelevant in this instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
Not at all, some of my best friends have friends who are Irish ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
Seriously though I can see why people have a problem with our perceived image but it really isn't representative of the bulk of our support. Don't get me wrong we our obviously mainly from a pro unionist background but that doesn’t automatically equate to being anti Irish. Linfield and football in general didn't cause the problems in our society up here, but it does reflect them.
One poster here says he wouldn't treat us as a normal club or words to that effect which saddens me, I like most on here am a passionate supporter of my wee club and the Irish League in general. I don’t follow Scottish or English football, just Linfield. I don’t support them for any religious or cultural reason, purely for the fact that they where the first team I was taken to see, could have been Crusaders, Distillery or Christ forbid the Glens.
We do have a few half-wits who leech onto us and we are trying to remove them but I’d be lying if I thought it will ever be totally eradicated, but believe me when I say it certainly isn't tolerated let alone encouraged.
Ah come on now you are takin the p!ss ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortuna1886
I haven't seen any Linfield fans coming on here with sectarian comments. Only people with those comments have been people trying to show how bigoted Linfield fans are supposed to be.
:rolleyes:
Heres a tune for Tolka:
"Convict Chairman! Convict Chairman!"
Get a nice flags with that written on it & stand back for the fireworks :D
Yeah it'll confuse the hell out of Finbar Flood, gaurenteed!
"Convict Chairman/CEO/Secretary/Publican/Disco King" doesn't have the same ring to it does it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash/ED
Oh they do exsist but they are the type who can't write proper ulster ;) let alone use Computer.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Sorry to say i'll be suprised if I dont here a few party songs on Saturday, fuelled by an all day drinking session. I for one will be down hoping we aren't humilated on and off the pitch. Have to say though i'm a lot more confident after our perfromance against the Glens, but I have a feeling we will see a Shels victory.
Ok, sorry, "hate" was the wrong word to use. :) I would have thought the majority would be anti-Irish though. I don't mean they wouldn't talk to an Irishman. I'm anti-Rangers but I could still have a good night out with a Rangers fan. I keep my eye out on FollowFollow (a Rangers forum with over 10,000 members) and most of them can't figure out whether they want Celtic or Ireland to win on the 29th.Quote:
Originally Posted by steveyg2004
Who was it that hoped it'd be a 0-0 draw and Setanta kept the money?
Whoever it was, I agree. Can't stand either $hel£ or Linfield!
Oh, can someone add in a "neither" option on that poll for those of us who will be neutrals
Exactly what i was saying, that football clubs represent the fans that follow them and that obviously the fans political opinions are represented through the medium of there club. Linfield are not the cause of the problems up there by any stretch of the imagination but just a by product of the feelings up there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortuna1886
I did not mean to single out Linfield as not a normal club, its just in my mind a normal club does not have any significant political leaning and by that reckoning alot of the teams on the continent are not 'normal'. This was probably the wrong word to use, unconventional would probably have been better.
The reason why alot of southern fans still hold resentment towards Linfield is cause of the reputation it has built over the years and i know attempts have been made to eradicate the bigoted element but it will take a some time for southen fans to fully respect Linfield fans, just as it took a long time for that reputation to be built up over the years.
Looking forward to meeting up with Tony Gorman again.....Quote:
Originally Posted by harpskid
I'm sure Anthony will be delighted to see yourself at some stage too!Quote:
Originally Posted by wintz
:D :D :D Nice One!!Quote:
Originally Posted by harpskid
Fortuna - why do Loyalists insist on using the phrase 'party songs' to sanitise what are essentially sectarian songs with either anti-catholic lyrics and/or that are sung with an anti-Catholic context/intent? They're bigoted songs - not something you'd hear at a McDonalds kid's birthday bash !Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortuna1886
I can never get my head around this. The phrase 'party songs' attempts to portray them as something completely harmless, which they're not...
Aye, its definitely a bit of spin right up their with good ole Tone's best efforts, it's not just a turn of phrase or anything. :rolleyes: I think Fortuna 1886 should be more insulted at your assumption that he is a loyalist.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
DCFC Steve, I have long been of the opinion that you find the most politically minded people in all of Ireland hailing from Derry/Londonderry (not everyone from the Maiden City, but a few), some of whom who are complete and utter gurning pedants.
Perhaps this is fuelled somewhat by a w*nker from Derry in the Ulster Scots Agency phoning up my work and lambasting me for sending a publication he requested to his home address adressed to 'Derry'. This sort of politically fuelled point scoring pedantry infuriates me no end, especially when the name is now interchangable since the Maiden City's Council became 'Derry City Council'.
Well Im sorry DCFC Steve but your little rant was up there with the 'best'/worst pedantry.
I read the thread about the Longford Linfield match with interest, and what I took from it was the Longford lads were not politically minded and played down a few of the Linfield support making bigoted arses out of themselves - It took your good self DCFC to try and exploit the minor incidents and take the subject of the thread away from football and into Northern Ireland politics - This annoyed me greatly at the time, but by the time I arrived the thread had been closed. In terms of biased, one sided views, yours should have won an award, claiming that all trouble, violence, sectarian song singing emenated from proddy clubs, with the one exception of this being Celtic. I wonder why you didn't post this view on ILF instead of Foot.ie, or indeed a lot of your opinions, because you know on ILF you wouldnt get away with them because there are too many fair minded individuals who also know more than most on here about football up North. You have a captive audience on here, and one which isnt going to be able to argue with alot of what you say, or to put it another way argue with how unbalanced your views and 'exampes' are.
Euphemisms are part of life - Im sure you could think of many more examples were 'nice sounding words' are used to describe pretty horrible acts.
Unless we agree to ban the terms 'rebel' and 'party' songs and use the phrase 'sectarian, hatred filled songs', I don't know what could be done, but then you didn't mention the 'rebel' songs, did you Steve! ;)
For once, I have to agree with a glenman! ;)
I first saw Limerick play in Sligo in 1975 and have been many times since. I've the utmost respect for the club and supproters. Would you then accept that Sligo Rovers FC reflects the bunch of teemagers in the Shed back in the late 80's that greeted Limerick's arrival onto the pitch with "Stab City W&*K W%^K" and some obscene gestures."Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Real Rover
No I thought not. Nor are Sligo a Fianna Fail club because Ray McSharry used to go to games.
Linfield are not a sectarian anti Irish club because 50 of their fans sing sectarian songs. Linfield are a football club - They have as many political views as Sligo Rovers. Linfield Football Club this year wore black armbands and flew their flag at half mast as a mark of respect after the death of Pope John Paul II. They allowed a West Belfast GAA team to use their facilities.
50? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
Linfield have actually officially stated (1996) that they were proud their Unionist background and ethos of their club. Don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong in stating this nor does that in itself make it Sectarian.
Bullsh*t. This is a ridiculous cave-man like pre-conceived notion that is based on hyperbole rather than fact. Nobody is arguing that Linfield don't attract a small hard-line following, but it really is a minority - NOT a majority.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
What about all the Cork fans at the City-Ports game on Monday who shouted "Huns" the whole way through the match, or shouted "west-Brit" at Arkins? Or the Rovers fans who jeered Lee Feeney during their first game against Bohs? Or the fans at Republic of Ireland games who did the same to Rangers players?
Any Linfield fan I have ever met hasn't hated me because I'm Irish, simply because they are Irish too. I'm not denying their identity - they are also British and proud of it - but they are normally at pains to point out that Linfield is the most succeful club ever in Ireland!
And the half-wits who base their hostility to Linfield in the Setanta final because the prize money will go to the GB, or 'English' economy need their unreconstructed 'chuckie' views challenged. It doesn't make sense in a sporting (let alone political) sense. Linfield are a club with the same challenges as Shels, Bohs, Derry, Cork - they are not Liverpool, Man Utd, Celtic or Rangers! And its not the same as supporting a European team over an eL one, because the success of the Setanta Cup will be beneficial for all local football fans, north and south.
So who will I be supporting - I go for chips
Yep, typical Cork - it all comes down to money..Quote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
Now, I wonder what is wrong with this league? :rolleyes:
We'll just have to agree to differ on all of this then Steveyg.Quote:
Originally Posted by steveyg2004
Firstly - numerous people on here, north and south, have posted who they will be supporting in the final. Some have used footballing reasons for who they're backing - but a significant number (north and south) have used 'politics' as justification for them not backing Linfield. I didn't mention political reasons at all on my 2 posts re who I'd be supporting - and in fact my intitial post said that I wasn't even sure who I wanted to win (i.e. I hadn't ruled-out backing Linfield) ! Yet when I raise a question -albeit pedantically - on the topic of 'party songs', all of a sudden it's "let's all look at the bigoted Derry man trying to bring politics into it all......." ! :confused:
Ironically - I DID mention Rebel Songs in my original post, but deleted it when I thought people would take it the wrong way when I said that 'at least that's what they were to a closer extent - songs about rebellion'. It doesn't make them any better, but at least they're labelled in a more honest way.
I take your points about pedantry, though as this is something that genuinely annoys me we'll just agree to differ. I have both mentioned and debated this point on the ILF previously - but gave up to be frank. Many of the Linfield fans on there didn't see anything wrong with singing the Billy Boys etc against Catholic supporters, and if they don't see anything wrong then there really is no point trying to give them the alternative view. There appears to be a level of tolerance of sectarian singing at Linfield that I haven't seen at any other club outside the Old Firm and possibly Cliftonville. I'm not saying every other club has fans with halos, but at the same time I'm not aware of other clubs who have this problem persistent. The singing of 'rebel songs' would just not be tolerated by the ordinary fans at a Derry game, for example (and please don't come-back with the stoning of buses away from our ground as a suitable response to this). It hasn't always been that way - but that's been the case for the last decade or so. That is the simple truth. The phrase 'party songs' is part and parcel of the tolerance bit I mentioned - making it all sound a bit more tolerable and normal than it should be. But I take your point that it's difficult/unlikely that the title will get changed.
As for me looking to stoke-up political and religious contention - far from it. I stand-up for what I think and believe - which is why I was shocked to hear Longford supporters tolerating anti-Catholic songs being sang at them. They may think it's a bit of fun from the security of their Midlands homes, but as a Derry man born and bred I don't. Likewise, any Derry fans who I heard singing sectarian songs would genuinely get shouted down by me, regardless of how big they were (For example - I almost got into a fight at an Ireland game in Basel with a Cork guy who I had a go at for inserting the 'Sinn Fein/IRA' bit into Fields of Athenry). But sure, I'm only an aul' bigot anyway....
As for my own personal political and religious views - I'm genuinely about as liberal a Derry man as you're ever likely to meet, as anyone on this site who's met me could hopefully concur. No doubt that'll inspire a few rolled eyes in responses, but there we go anyway....
P.S. When did I claim that "all violence, trouble, sectarian song emanated from proddy clubs, with the exception of Celtic" ? Regardless - I'll play along for a bit anyway. So- which other clubs apart from Cliftonville WOULD have a history and a reputation for this sort of behaviour ? There probably are others, but I can't think of any.
$hels for me. I'll always support a team from the 26 counties against someone from another league! ;) :p
The concern over Shels money and what they'll do with it misses one point. Is there a rule in the Setanta Cup that the prize money can't be used by IL teams to buy top class eL players?
Cork fans might just as well worry about Linfield getting the money. Think Georgie would look good in blue?
By the way the LFC in my name is not Linfield FC. :)