Printable View
True - hopes and dreams are the fuel for most football fans and are part of the magic of it all. Creating new expectations simply runs the risk of being disappointed if they are not achieved - I would rather travel in hope and beliefQuote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
What VP and his group have already achieved is tremendous.
Would Dundalk be able to do a Sligo Rovers and let the people of Dundalk raise the funds to buy the ground from the current owners with a proviso it only be used for sport and lease it rent free to the club, I understood that the family who own the ground are well disposed to the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by White Horse
Oh and congrats to Dundalk, way way better than anyone else.
This leads to my question who owns the ground? Is it Des Casey? That would be the only way around the impasse. Do what Sligo Rovers did to their ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by redarmyfaction
Quote:
Originally Posted by redarmyfaction
How would a no-cost lease in place of a low-cost lease make ground redevelopment more feasible?
Des Casey (who is Honorary Club President) represents the Casey Family Trust who own the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinho II
I am not sure what impasse you refer to other than the obvious one that the current owners are unlikely to borrow/invest the multiple millions required for Oriel Park re-development on the simple basis that they are unlikely to be able to get a Return on Investment
The Casey family own the ground and keeping the ownership away from the club has been a great source of protection for Oriel Park over the years.Quote:
Originally Posted by redarmyfaction
However, I expect that if the ground was owned by the club it would not make any difference to the willingness of the owners to invest substantially. I read many comments on social media about "American owners" funding the team. That is way off the mark, the team is self funding through European prize money. The owners are not here to spend their money.
If the owner of Oriel present or future, see that the current owners of Oriel are making a lot of money from the club they might decide to have some themselves and seek a rent increase it is unlikely that the people of Dundalk would do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
If the club in invests in the ground that buried cost makes it easier for a landlord to seek higher rent from the club.
If Oriel is redeveloped by the tenants and the afterwards the owner gets an offer he can't refuse from developers ( and the club can't match that offer) the club may have wasted their money.
There are other reasons but you get the drift
Ok - so it's not the low-cost : no-cost lease that is the issue you are highlighting, but the security that the tenants have, especially in relation to ground improvements.Quote:
Originally Posted by redarmyfaction
A long-term lease with a locked-in mechanism on rent increases (no /low increase / or inflation rate rent increase) and security against the property being sold meets the same needs
I don't believe for a moment that any of the above issues are the primary barriers to major stadium upgrades. Even if outright ground ownership was acquired in the morning, IMO there is no prospect of the owners investing millions in the ground on the simple basis that a Return on Investment would be improbable
Just recovered now from what was a super night at op on Monday evening and the subsequent celebrations
WHAT a seriously good game it was.How my heart held out:confused:
Fair play to Bradser/Shamrock Rovers for putting out their best side ahead of a massive cup game for them this w/e.Would have been easy to not do so,make excuses and run for the hills, but he done it. *applause*:cool:
Heading over to the Sligo game on Sunday,going to be tough and taking nothing for granted.Going to call a draw and Dundalk to win the replay.
Best wishes everyone #GreatestLeagueInTheWorld :love:
On wet nights, a lot of away fans who might otherwise, won't travel to Oriel. If they stuck a roof on the that section, they'd get an immediate return in terms of the numbers travelling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
Also the fact that the league was over meant people were not disposed to travelling.
For the avoidance of any doubt let me first emphasise that I would love to see improved facilities and more cover for both home and away fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohs11
But to suggest that a handful of additional away fans on a rainy night represents an "immediate return" is really missing the point on the concept of ROI
Being a two club county club, coupled with Dundalk's population means you're pretty hamstrung in terms of growing your home numbers.
You can easily grow the away numbers though, if you stuck a roof over it. You can knock off an average of 150 away fans from the Dublin clubs by the threat of getting píssed on. Over the course of a season with three Dublin clubs, paying €15 twice a year a year this adds up to €13.5k. Add on Shels and Drogheda next year and it could be €22.5k.
An 'immediate return' might be a stretch, but there is definitely a better return to be had on €80k for a roof, than sticking Gartland on the bench for half a season.
To be fair shams bring a big crowd to pretty much all games. One thing we can give out about 😁Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingswood Rover
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohs11
You really got me thinking here.
A roof for 80k with a return on investment within 6 years. That would be brilliant!
Putting Brian Gartland on a 3 day week could work out after all
Has to be the easiest game in the Brandywell this season in the Derry city v Cork. After Derry scored the game was over as a contest. It seemed like the Cork players just lost interest. Crazy to see a team who have challenged for trophies for 6 years get so naff so quickly.
A great 3 points for Derry and puts us into 3rd place and the guaranteed European spot.
Hard to believe last December Derry city only had 4 players signed!
Naff was meant to be bad*
Final score was Derry city 4 Cork city 0.
Did Fenn look comfortable in the dugout Candystripe?Quote:
Originally Posted by Candystripe
with Dundalk win yesterday I think 4th now also gets Europe ? Still lots to play for this season for Derry, Bohs and Pats ! 4-0 should be an unacceptable result for a still fairly costly Cork side but their players seem to have given up. Cork unfortunately seem to be Bohs bogey side in recent seasons and we play them next week.Would appreciate another 'naff' performance on Friday, we need all the help we can get :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Candystripe
Cork were dreadful on Friday night. The players just looked like they couldn't be bothered.
It reminded me of how we were last season. Pathetic really.
Didn't notice Fenn much, but he'll have some job on his hands over the off-season. If I were a Cork fan, I'd be wanting a clear out.
Fingers crossed. It's prabably impossible to sign a whole new starting 11 that would be challenging towards the top, so retaining some of the current squad might have to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by brendy_éire
The fewer the better hopefully.
It's been done before, most notably by Stephen Kenny in 2013 when he re-signed about 4 players in the squad from the previous seasonQuote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
The main aspect of Kenny taking the Dundalk job back then was that he had a blank slate and could do as he pleased really with the playing budget. Apart from the players he kept and lads brought in he immediately had a backroom staff appointed with initial emphasis on S + C, and was so radical in his thinking that we had a dedicated goalkeeping coach for the first time in years!! He seemed completely devoid of self confidence and I think that came across at meetings with fans, he was hard to hear even with a mic, and on TV he looked very nervous. He always seemed considered in his answering of questions anyway but it took time to see the self belief seep back. I do think he must have spent time he was on gardening leave from Rovers planning a start from scratch with little to no budget simply as he put together a bunch of underated lads, in in some cases real journeymen and bar one key loss away to Pats could have won the title in Yr1. The players had to be willing to buy in to what he wanted to do so he was careful of the character of who he signed, probably based on past experience. S+C and diet was a big part of the initial success and most clubs wiill have caught up on that, but it was quite remarkable how some players stock soared after 2013 and how quickly thing were turned around with early years of the decade looking like a slow death for the club to 5 titles in 6 years ++. If it was done at the basket case that was Dundalk it can definitely be turned around at Cork with the right personnel. It could be tougher to break in to a top 2 so quickly but Europe is a realistic target and with the crowds back and potential European money again things can snowball. There is more to work with at Cork that there was at Dundalk!!
I think Kenny’s great strength is in team building, actually starting from scratch. He has a somewhat unusual personality and doesn’t get on with everybody (players included) so likes to built a team around him that he can trust and communicate with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
There is no doubt some of the senior players at shams undermined him and it really did come down to getting rid or him or a cadre of senior players.
I expect Fenn will have to clear out at Cork and that he may welcome that. Stability and maybe a tilt at top 4 a realistic target for CCFC next season.
Rovers fans point out dubious selection in their eyes prior to Kenny's sacking, the Dublin Derby broke the boards resolve to stick. The irony is that subsequent managers got more leeway I feel. But you are spot on, SK was very selective in who he signed and it wasnt purely based on individual ability but building a team and with players that there was mutual trust. O'Donnell is probably the best example of a senior player that he got on board early so there must have been a rapport when at Rovers (unless i'm getting timing off?). Gannon was a kid really when at Rovers but it often mentioned as a player he didnt play when both at Tallaght. But getting the likes of Boyle, Garts, Massey in - real stalwarts among others before the playing budget gave more wriggle room, seems incredibly astute in how they formed a unit then and still are 5 or 6 years on.
I obviously dont like the way that Fenn manipulated Dundalk in the past but I do think he has the potential to get Cork going again. But you would think that a player like Sheppard, as an example, would be busting himself for a new manager and only 28. There are others like McCormack that need lifting in confdence as he is effective at what he does and club captain for a reason. It will be interesting times on Leeside between now and February for sure!!
It's a significant job of work to turn Cork around from the current plight. Having few players in contract is a advantage in that he can let the deadwood drift and sign players to suit his game plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
But I don't see any evidence so far that Fenn has the potential to get Cork challenging again in the short to medium term
Potential big support and a huge catchment area along with fairly steady income give Cork a few advantages over other clubs. To be honest I think top 4/5 is a realistic target for next season or two.Huge gulf to top 2 and unless someone throws kitchen sinks left, right, and centre it is going to be difficult to unseat up the top 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
True! I was thinking that he will have resources at Cork that other clubs would not and as such should close the gap to the European berths from where they are currently. Whether he has the ability to get Cork back above Derry/Pats/Bohs and an improving Sligo never mind challanging remains to be seen. While there is little to back this up but I do think he has potential to be a good manager - maybe due to the ruthless streak he has shown.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
The informed Cork City posters here will probable be much better able to comment, but I suspect achieving a European place through a top 4 finish next season is well beyond reasonable expectations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
From my understanding Cork City already made financial cut backs in mid season, because of dwindling crowds that followed poor performances and results. While the potential is clearly there to attract attendances that in turn fuels an improved budget, it would be very difficult for the Cork board to sanction a generous budget now without the confidence of knowing what revenue will come in from 2020 attendances.
It is also difficult for Cork to attract quality players from other parts of the country without offering generous terms and at least a prospect of success. Promoting talented young players from U-19's may be attractive from a longer term perspective but less likely to have short-term impact
Despite the challengers an exceptional manager can work this happen. There is no evidence so far that Neale Fenn is that man.
Its bound to be relative though. Even with a cutback in the playing budget it could still be higher than Derry and Sligo and definitely Bohs. The obvious and most accurate answer is though that they have the 4th highest budget before and after the cut!;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
From what I'm hearing the financial picture at Cork City has changed significantly. Some fans have expressed serious concerns about the overspending and the level of debt. The board has had unexpected resignations. The disastrous current season will not stimulate season ticket or FORAS renewals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Its a bleak picture and Neale Fenn may be able to work miracles. But there is no evidence to support that hope.
At least 3 and maybe all of Derry. St Pats, Sligo and Bohs should be ahead of Cork next season. Relegation battles are more likely than euro challenges
I havent heard too much from or about Cork recently. The regulars here have been quiet and finances havent been discussed, well not recently. I wasnt aware of the resignations but i'm not at all surprised if there was a serious overspend which goes against FORAS core principle and the pride in the model that saved the club. It was said here that the membership voted to keep a larger reserve but the board seemed to ignore those wishes and the playing budget was increased for Caulfield. His recruitment was questionable and with things spiraling down - crowds, no European football next season, i'm sure it is a worry especially if it is true that backroom team were kept on after Caulfield was pushed as the money wasnt there to pay off their contracts? But I'm sure Fenn was no cheap as chips appointment - certainly doesnt fit with the persona either way.
There hasnt been any chatter about going back part-time which is one of the first bigs signs that finances are a very big problem. I tend to agree that Fenn may have to think longer term and go with more youth in the squad but there are also a few big earners that have time to run on contracts, Sheppard, McCormack, Buckley, Stokes, and the lads on loan will return, there was others interested in O'Connor so that will have bumped his wage? Unless players will be willing to tear up contracts or other clubs raid (Sligo might get a few signings back) that cost will have to be managed. While gates were down they were still averaging over the 2k mark.
In the way that Fenn cant be assessed yet on potential success, he equally cant be be any more thought of as a relegation battling manager either. As I have said I feel he could just turn fortunes around but to what extent who knows! I do think they will be a better organised side come next season if lacking some quality throughout the side.
If Shels splash the cash again then they are a risk to Cork but the sides in the play-offs and Waterford I dont think will, though Harps know how to fight to stay up and its that lack of fight and motivation among the Cork players that is most surprising.
New manager or not there is something amiss with the senior players - we are hardly going to hear that there were issues with wages so they werent busting a gut for the new man - it would a very rare thing in LoI for something like that to be kept out of the public domain, and I'm not suggesting it could actually be the case its just baffling how some of the players have turned from playing with the passion youd expect to such malaise.
Among the few positives for Neale Fenn and Cork City is that unless low key deals have been agreed but not announced, none of the above mentioned (Sheppard, McCormack, Buckley) are under contract for next season and the "lads on loan" including Graham Cummins and Aaron Barry are also out of contract.
Shows how much attention Ive been paying to Cork this season! :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
You're some stirrer. ONE board member stepped down due to his own family and business commitments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
The financial picture seems to be challenging alright with wasted 2017/2018 money on crap players, no European money, poor attendances this year etc. There are rumours of the club being in the red, but I'd be surprised if it was an insurmountable amount.
Off the pitch, merchandise and fundraising have been excellent so it's not all gloom.
3 players under contact apparently so players on big wages will be off the payroll. Clean slate, Fenn has a lot if signings to make albeit with a reduced budget. It will be challenging but there are some decent yourh players there too so let's give him a chance.
We certainly won't be challenging for a title next year, but the gap from 8th to 4th isn't a massive leap so who knows, a European place could be achievable. Let's wait and see.
Another cracking refereeing decision in Stradbrook last night. Tweet contains strong language:
https://twitter.com/JayDonnelly_93/s...499853313?s=19
Apologies if I got it wrong - I understood that both Damien Sreenan and Mike Derham had resigned from the board this season with both citing the usual "personal reasons"Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
I fully realise that this could be completely genuine and coincidental and that any current speculation linking this to the delays in circulating the financial accounts are probably wide of the mark.
I'd say it is great being on the BOM of a fan owned club when your side is riding high, it reflects well on the individual and his business. However, I also imagine it is sh!t when your side is tanking.
The fan owned model is very admirable but it very attritional on fans who step up to the plate to run the club. It is very effective at creating ex-fans.
The most important thing Cork can do for their fans is to publish their accounts and reveal the true financial position of the club. At least then, their fans will know what they have to work with going forward.
Mike Derham was one of 2 board members that had been on the 2018 board (the other was Declan Carey) that set this seasons budget. 5 new board members were newly elected at the end of 2018 and Mike resigned shortly after the chairman was elected and a new member was co-opted in his place. This all happened before the season started. In other breaking news, the Titanic sank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
Damien was one of the 5 newly elected members and he resigned in the last few days for personal reasons. He did great work in his 9 months involved.
To put the 2 resignations together and imply resignations happening all at once is misleading, ill-informed and given your posting record, is sh!t stirring.
I'm curious why you are so exercised by this issue, especially when you seem to be confirming that what I said previously was correctQuote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
From what I can see both of these individuals were confirmed on the seven person board in January 2019 and have since resigned. Is this incorrect?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial