Dont we at Dundalk know it, Not that we could do much about it!!Quote:
Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop
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Dont we at Dundalk know it, Not that we could do much about it!!Quote:
Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop
FORAS membership would generally be very wary of outside investment. It would be very difficult to convince a majority of the membership to trust someone coming in from the outside. There has been rumblings in recent months that we may need to find ways to get more investment but I'm not even sure its legally possible under our current structure, due to the one person one vote nature of co-ops, it would be a massive change.
Its one person one vote at Rovers too so whatever change is mooted will need to be accepted.Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Pietro
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019...amrock-rovers/Quote:
Dermot Desmond set to take 25% stake in Shamrock Rovers
Dermot Desmond could be set to become a 25% stakeholder in Shamrock Rovers if proposals are passed at a general meeting in the coming weeks.
Desmond is one of the richest people in Ireland and is the largest individual shareholder in Scottish champions Celtic.
Shamrock Rovers were reconstituted as a members club owned by fans in 2005, though they changed to a hybrid model when Ray Wilson took a one-quarter stake in the club in 2016.
In a statement release by Rovers, it is explained that proposals have been developed in recent months between the board and Wilson to bring Desmond on board.
"This proposal is the latest potential evolution in the hybrid model of fan ownership combined with private ownership and is a structure that the board of directors of the Members Club feel is a long term sustainable model that will propel Shamrock Rovers forward on and off the pitch," said the statement.
In a note to club members, Desmond said that should he become a shareholder in the club his intention is not in pursuit of monetary gain and there is no financial or asset play.
Rovers are currently second in the Premier Division, though they can't catch Dundalk, who have already been crowned champions this season.
Rovers play their home games at Tallaght Stadium in DublinThe statement said: "His sole motivation in considering this investment is to advance the cause of Shamrock Rovers.
"Mr Desmond is especially interested in supporting Shamrock Rovers' ambitious plans to further develop the club's Academy and building on the very strong foundations laid by the club in recent years.
"Mr Desmond sees any involvement with Shamrock Rovers as being more akin to a trustee than a shareholder.
"He believes that the proposed investment would put the club on a sound financial footing, providing stability to allow the long term benefits of the club’s Academy plan to bear fruit and to afford Shamrock Rovers the continued opportunity to credibly pursue success on the pitch."
The group of fans who own 75% the club have been provided with the information on the proposed deal and will shortly convene a general meeting to formally vote on accepting or rejecting the proposals.
The statement concluded: "Should the proposals be accepted by the membership, the new ownership structure of Shamrock Rovers will be made up of the Members Club (50%), Mr Ray Wilson (25%) and Mr Dermot Desmond (25%).
"There will be no further comment by any party involved in the discussions until after the general meeting."
Interesting proposal from DD. He claims he will be acting as a 'trustee' of the club although legally he will be a 25% shareholder. Still nothing on how much he will pay to be 25% shareholder, and will the ordinary member have their membership fee reduced seeing as their shareholding will be reduced.?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
"In a note to club members, Mr. Desmond confirmed that should he become a shareholder in Shamrock Rovers his intention is not in pursuit of monetary gain and there is no financial or asset play. Mr. Desmond noted that he would expect any positive future cash flow generated to be reinvested in the club such that all stakeholders (including supporters, players, coaching staff, management and sponsors etc.) will benefit. Mr. Desmond stated that his sole motivation in considering this investment is to advance the cause of Shamrock Rovers."
I'm always wary of businessmen making an investment sound like a donation. Forgive my skepticism.
Not always a bad thing I’d say we would be bust without Mr K.Quote:
Originally Posted by White Horse
Any chance of the members voting against it?
If he wanted to become a shareholder could he not just have joined like any ordinary supporter?
Dermot Desmond is probably Ireland’s most successful investor but nonsense to say he is not in it for profit. What’s the alternative? His “love of Tallaght” ? His (todate) well hidden love of LOI ?Quote:
Originally Posted by White Horse
I can see some financial potential in developing the academy side (farming kids to UK) and if he said that I’d understand but investing his own money for no return ? Sounds out of character.
First dibs on our good young lads, this is a very similar model to the German leagues and so i would not like anything less than 50 % shareholding for the ordinary members, might be something that needs putting in the clubs constitution if its not there already as i am not a member i do not know. One thing that this might do is to encourage investment in other clubs. Dermot might help us get within 10 next season
"His sole motivation in considering this investment is to advance the cause of Shamrock Rovers.
Is this an FAI statement? How many games has Desmond attended?
Seems clear that is not the case. Celtic are not involved in the deal in any way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingswood Rover
Dermot Desmond is well known for his philanthropy. Altrusim is his reason for being.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nah Nah Nah Nah
Even the most gullible Hoopers won't believe this guff, but may still dilute their shareholding
Sole motivation is " to advance the cause of Shamrock Rovers"? Maybe Desmond, suddenly has developed a gra for the Hoops? maybe it is hard headed business decision and he does get dibs/ return on all academy players sold? Apart from the dwindling number of Rovers members who remember the consequences of not having full control of their club, and who oppose this, I would think that the money and the known and unknown strings attached will be accepted by a large majority.
Should be careful of what is said here given that he and his Siamese twin Denis O`Brien and fellow INM shareholder, have initiated over 50 separate legal actions , not including countless threats of actions for defamation, following the adverse findings against them both in the Moriarty Report.
Anyway, its Rover`s business, but I would have thought that they were steadily gaining ground on Dundalk with their existing model , without having to sell out to the self-styled " Kaiser".
I think it's fair and completely reasonable to be skeptical of Desmond's stated motivations, but are you seriously suggesting that the Rovers board are openly lying to members about the terms of an investment they are asking them to approve? That is absolute fantasy stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalymountrower
I don't necessarily buy the altruism angle, but to me there is little risk in giving up a minority stake at a generous valuation while the members and Ray Wilson retain 75%. Rovers get a cash injection, an injection of expertise at Board level, and the commercial benefits that will accrue from partnering with Desmond.
I'd imagine the reality is that Desmond sees large growth potential in a historically successful Dublin club that wear green and white hoops, play in a modern stadium and have a large latent/passive/lapsed fan base across the city. The European games and the Bohs games in Tallaght this season (some of which Desmond attended) felt like something different to your standard LOI experience and showed a bit of the potential there. There is a long, long, long way to go for any of that to be realised, but I can see why Desmond could be interested.
If I was a Rovers fan, I would want to know why is interested and what is motivation is. I would not want to be in a position where I had to guess it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Horse
He has given his explanation of his motivation and it is up to members to decide if its satisfactory or not. Regardless though it still comes down to risk from my perspective. The club has no real physical assets to strip, there are no problematic conditions attached to the investment, and significant majority control remains with the members and Ray Wilson (who is as committed to Rovers as any member).
I'm honestly not having a go, but if you compare this situation to Peak 6 obtaining 100% control of Dundalk for a fraction of the valuation and gaining complete control of substantial cash reserves in the process, the Desmond proposition seems a no-brainer. There is virtually no conceivable way he could financially benefit from the investment in a manner that is detrimental to the football club.
I'd say it's probably naïve to believe this though ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny
Celtic themselves can't buy shares in Rovers, without being ineligible for Europe. If only there was someone very closely associated with Celtic who could help them get round that by buying a share in Rovers under his own name...
Presumign that company law in the republic means that a 75% +1 holding gives majority control, then suely Rovers should be selling only a 24.99% share to Desmond ? Otherwise he'd have the ability to bock certain key deciisons.
Not an expert on company law by any stretch, but I think that 25% would enable Desmond to block certain special resolutions (changes to articles of association, large capital investment proposals etc) but wouldn't give any control over ordinary resolutions which dictate the day to day running and direction of the club. I don't think it's unreasonable to receive minority shareholder protections in exchange for the level of investment they are talking about. Again, I just don't see the risk there.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
The board of Rovers have explicitly told members that there is no provision in this deal for Celtic to have preferential options on academy players or transfers of senior players. So again, the only way that is possible would be for the board of Rovers, and Ray Wilson, to be openly lying to members about the terms of a deal they are asking them to vote on. That scenario is ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
Will there be another tour advising other clubs on “fan owned model” ? 🤣😂🤣😂
Whereas one of the coldest businessmen in Ireland suddenly developing an interest in SRFC and showering them with money for no gain is not ridiculous ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny
I don’t know DD “angle” on this but not for one second do I believe there isn’t one.
Honestly, looking in from the outside, one can only help but feel a bit jealous.
A multi-million euro investment into a club is huge here. If they're smart with their money, it's exactly the push they need to attract more high quality names, and hold on to their bigger names going into next season.
The biggest question for Rovers going forward is whether or not Bradley is the right manager to make the next step with them, and push them towards a league title and European group stages. This is obviously the aim for the likes of Desmond in getting involved with the club.
If there's some major spend by the club in the off-season, it might push Dundalk to do the same. The two could cut even further adrift at the top of the table.
As for Desmonds interests, of course he's looking for financial gain, saying anything else is ridiculous.
Again, all that actually matters is the level of risk from Rovers perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
There are two real possibilities:
1) He statements regarding his reasons for investing and his claims that he will re-invest any returns back into the club are true, in which case it is a dream scenario with no downside.
2) His statement is only partially true and he is getting involved anticipating some financial return down the line.
Regardless of which one is the case, it still seems a complete no-brainer for Rovers. The only way he would generate any sort of return would be through massive growth of the business and success of the football club. That's a win-win. As I said, I think people are completely right to be skeptical of his intentions, but with the members and Ray Wilson retaining majority control the decision still makes itself.
So all that “fan owned” nonsense gets dumped the first time someone offers a few bob ? Didn’t take long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny
Of course there's a risk here.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
People like Desmond have lots of money because they don't give without getting back on their investments. That's why they have money. I would suggest that DD is thinking of only one person here & it isn't anyone at Rovers.
I can see the attraction here for Rovers fans.
Untimitly it will be a decision for the Rovers member but I would urge caution.
The key here though is that Rovers don’t have any real assets to sell, so there’s no possibility of a big asset strip like in the 80s.
I think the downside to Rovers is very limited, the upside is bigger.
Like it or not, almost every successful football club relies on benefactors. The real shame in Ireland is that our own super-rich have always favoured UK clubs or the racing industry for any philanthropy.
It's at times like this that I yearn for Rathfarnham Hoop's unique perspective
Possibly waiting on the AGM ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
Good luck to shams and great news for players they are thinking of signing (the Hobinator will need protection from all the kitchen sinks that will be thrown at him ).
Will be interesting to see how it plays out. 2 million (figure bandied about ) could certainly improve the playing staff but it’s a one off so increased revenue would have to be generated to future fund it (recurring wages). Maybe see a Shels/Bohs circa 2000 wage war between shams and Dundalk. Sure what could go wrong 😁
Bohs fans keep wheeling out this line as if it's some big gotcha! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
How do you know it's the first time someone has approached the club to buy in? Regardless, any model of ownership is a means to an end not an end in itself. I would be seriously unhappy if Rovers would dismiss an opportunity to progress the club purely out of some dogmatic commitment to being 100% member owned (which has never been the case anyway as Ray Wilson has privately owned shares since the club exited examinership). I would be equally as unhappy to see outsiders take up a controlling interest in the club based upon past experience. German style hybrid ownership seems a perfectly reasonable way forward to me.
How could Desmond realistically make any money from the club?
The only way I can think of would be to siphon off future European prize money, which can add up pretty quickly if a team manages to pick up points in the group stages. And that would only happen if he got enough control over the club to have the power to do so.
But even then, Dundalk got what, 7 million in prize money, for the best European campaign in LOI hsitory? I'm not trying to play down that amount, but Desmond is a billionaire, and I'd imagine he has much bigger fish to fry.
I'm fairly skeptical of the idea that there is much philanthropy involved from a guy with no history of interest in LOI, but I can't see how he stands to make significant money (significant for him anyway) out of it.
A very simple way he could make money would be if the club's value increases. His 25% share would therefore increase too.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Presumably he is working on the assumption that Rovers could make progress in Europe, so the value of his shareholding would increase. He may also expect some form of dividend too ?
The downside in this for Rovers is that Desmond could sell his shares at any time to whoever he wanted. And it's the size of shareholding that can block major decisions. The fans will get to decide if DD buys this 25% share, but they will have no say at all in who ends up owning those shares in future (and what their motivations are). If I was them I'd sell them with the caveat that they have first option to buy them back when he eventually does sell them.
That is the deal EYG. Shares have to be offered to existing shareholders before anyone else.
I'm always sceptical about philanthropy but there are examples in Ireland, Denis o brien gave millions to the fai which allowed them **** there own money away (pity he didn't insist on a seat on the board and oversee how they spent their money ), jp McManus has given away millions in limerick so DD investing pocket change for him in rovers and getting involved at board level and as a minority shareholder doesn't have to be a part of a big conspriciy.
Eyes wide open obviously but hard to see how he make a a killing in rovers.
For years we have been looking at the likes of Desmond and McManus and wondering why they wouldnt take a punt on investing in LoI. Peak6 broke something of a mould and now that there are serious people showing interest in investment we are looking very insular and skeptical about the prospect. Yes things havent worked with Arkaga at Cork, other clubs' investors have left things high and dry but none of them had the deep pokects that these people have.
For me Desmond's involvement in Rovers (coupled with Wilson) is a pretty frightening prospect in terms of potential financial clout is a worry to other clubs. I'm sure Peak6 are quietly concerned too especially with next season's change to European competition and how it is likely to be the most important title race in league history considering what could be on offer.
Maybe DD sees how things are going with the relative lack of 1st team opportunities for Irish players in England and realises, like we have for an age, that the future fortunes of our international teams will rely more and more on a stronger domestic league!
A lot of the negative comments Ive read on this potential investment imo is born out of fear and maybe even jealousy. We can expect a bit of a bandwagon of very wealthy people looking to LoI as their play thing without having to worry about any more than a weeks interest on part of their worth - maybe we should throw off the shackles that Arkaga caused. It is a hybrid ownership this is pretty ideal and something that Cork should be looking at too never mind all clubs.
Bourne out of experience I would have thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Look - there is no money in LOI football. That is just a cold hard fact. If DD wants to invest then great. But proceed with Caution is probably what most would advocate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
I believe that there is little doubt that a lot, maybe even most, of the negative comments are rooted in fear or jealousy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
The primary poor experience has been around Arkaga and the compounded experience that followed with Tom Coughlan. It's perfectly understandable that Cork folk would be especially cautious as a result. That resistance to any type of outside investment will change too if the current disparity between Cork and the top two is maintained or grows even wider.
The potential returns - if they actually exist - are obviously not in the €110k current prize money, but lie elsewhere. Proceeding with caution is a sound approach, but dismissing it out of hand would be foolish
I'd never suggest blindly taking on board new investment! But at the same time we cannot always hold back on the basis of bad experience - there isnt a club in the land that hasnt had bad experences of owners/investors. Any 'investment' is what it is, people with money trying to make a return. It doesnt mean that clubs and supporters wont reap benefits in the process also. Basically we have all hoped for proper investment in clubs, its is potentially happening. We could be looking at significant change in the domestic football landscape and with DD showing interest its likely to pique the interest of others, something that we have been shouting from the roof tops about for decades. Now, as we could well be on the brink of domestic football changing, there are people going nope, not good! Maybe it will come crashing down but at least we will know and not be living in hope forever of some serious reform and investment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
Great news for Pats though,.more cut price ex Rovers players to choose from if Kaisers Rovers use their new wealth to buy new galacticos.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs