^ That said I still have my fingers crossed that Rice will declare for us and we can get Crowley settled in the side. Then build off the two of them going forward.
^ That said I still have my fingers crossed that Rice will declare for us and we can get Crowley settled in the side. Then build off the two of them going forward.
Yes, but if Martin O'Neill is at the helm it wouldn't matter if we got Messi and Ronaldo to declare. We are absolutely atrocious under him and his sacking is way way overdue.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
We need about 4 midfielders who can pass the ball . 2 Playing and 2 back up . It really is amazing that we don’t have midfielders that can pass the ball with a bit of quality .Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
I genuinely would love to swap managers and see if our players could pass the ball under Michael O’Neill . They also seem to have a bit of confidence that our players don’t .Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathalsmart
Ya wouldn’t notice that Michael O’Neil had not won two European Cups and not played under Clough .
I was one of 30,000 there tonight against what should be one of our biggest rivals. I shudder o think what the attendance will be at our next home match if we get whipped by the Danes away.
I can't believe how bad Hendrick and Brady were tonight. Ok, Brady is short of match practice but he lost so much possession. Hendrick was anonymous apart from some silly fouls. Hourihane was anonymous. They walked through us when Whelan went off. The back 3 were at sea a few times as a result.
And again, that impacted our forwards. Although I did like the effort of Robinson and Curtis has an edge that I like too.
Stevens looked really good at wing back. Food for thought.
^^^^^ We have no midfield . Brady did take some very good dead balls .
Is Hendrick getting game time at Burnley ? He was poor today as he has been lately . Brady hopefully will improve with games .
We haven't had midfielders of any real quality for around a decade now and fans shouldn't forget this. You can't get around this fact no matter who the manager is. The quality of our play has reflected it since Trapattoni was in charge. James McCarthy offered a glimpse of hope but he has hardly been stellar for us. With Rice and Crowley* alongside him I'd look forward with much more optimism though. Things are so bad right now that that old "it doesn't matter how we play as long as we qualify" mantra can't apply. We need to take active steps to build something like Wales and NI did. One thing they had in common though is young hungry managers, which is why I'd much rather Keane was manager than O'Neill.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
* I mention Crowley often only because I watched him a number of times in some youth games and his ability was so blatantly obvious that I wanted us to secure him more than any other young Irish qualified player that I've seen in a long time.
I wonder if the players have downed tools on him a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapAPony
Look at the NI front 3 earlier with their constant pressing - the other O'Neill had them well drilled there.
I can't see how they would be fully playing for him any longer, no. They aren't blind, they aren't daft.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
They know what a pro set up should resemble, pre and during games, and its no relation to what we are.
This needs to stop now, it needed to stop after Denmark & that's not being wise after the event. However MONs highly strategic dalliance with Stoke has made it very difficult to undo this, by difficult I mean expensive and very humbling for the FAI decision makers, who true to form are hiding from the decision.
We make Theresa May look good.
based on some of the dreadful passing last night I wouldn't be too sure about that. of course management has to take a lot of the blame but some of the passing and decision making was dreadful at times and the players must take responsibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
some dreadful individual performances but enda stevens looks like he is our best left back / wing back option and, although some of his passes were dreadful, brady showed a couple of very neat touches and its a positive to have him back.
apart from that easily the most worrying performance of the last 3
She is better organised in midfield , is able to pass and has vision . Its the headers all round her that are the problem there .Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
Sure, individual performances could be better, but they are subject to how MON sets up the team. We gave the ball to the North by constantly sitting deep. In contrast, the North pressed high, which stopped us playing the ball out from defence – not that we do that anyways. Really can’t see any logical reasoning behind how we are set-up. There’s no intent to create, control, influence the game. It seems to be all about containing the opposition. Our only attacking threats are long balls from Randolph, kicked out of play for the most part, and set-plays which are monotonous and predictable. And talk of having no midfield players is nonsense, we chose to play the game without a midfield.
Shaun Williams was excellent in midfield against Poland.
Would love to see him get more game time under O’Neill.
The highlight of the game was in the second half when N Ireland put an outstanding move together, breaking forward at pace, passing skilfully and accurately, and it just needed one outstretched leg to put the ball in the net. You would never see the Republic try anything like that. Never. Ever.
I don't think there's ever been a better game to prove that our manager and coaching team need to be replaced. There's no argument that the opposition had more quality, or come from a different footballing culture, or are technically better, or have a couple of world class players that we don't have. That NI team had players from the same footballing culture and leagues, mostly playing at a lower level than ours, and, apart from not being able to finish their dinner, dominated in every statistic. 58% possession, 11 attempts to 8, 11 corners to 3. They passed the ball to each other better, they communicated better, they worked as a unit better, they created more. Yes, our players didn't perform, but the management have to shoulder most of the blame for sending them out without any kind of clear system of play. The NI players knew when to pressure, knew how to cut off supply to our wing backs, knew we wouldn't try to play through the middle, knew how to isolate the weak link in our back 3. They knew those things because they were coached to know them. Our players were told the team an hour before kick off and were told to go out and play with a bit of passion and like real men and good luck. That doesn't cut it anymore. Time for change.
Has barely played since. Maybe he went against O'Neill's instructions and retained possession too much?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
well said, agree with all the above.Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
last night was bad but please don't go overboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightstory
mccleans goal against Austria away sounds exactly like what you describe (except for the actual finish to the net)
Nothing really to say about the game other than we continue to be terrible and they were slightly better (how some people might like to go back to the day when under Trapp we stuffed them during their last visit). And speaking of which my comments are more political than about football. What has happening during the intervening period ? At that last game about 4 or 5 years ago GSTQ was greeted pretty much in silence and respected. This time it was greeted with the loudest boos (or should I say booze) at the Aviva since Raheem Sterling played for England having left Liverpool shortly before. Has it something to do with Brexit ? Their booing of James McClean only started after the anthems so it couldn't be related to that. Some Nordies beside me sat down for the anthem. Some kids in front of me were perplexed by the jeers - welcome to Irish history. Even the drummer in the "singing section" couldn't resist a few bangs during the anthem. At least the bell wasn't rung. I am as nationalistic as the next man but I found the booing disappointing. In life if you want to persuade someone to do something, you don't jeer them and disrespect them. That sort of stuff does nothing to further the cause of unity and it just confirmed their view that there is a hostile State south of the border. Shame.
The North were supposedly a team as technically deficient and as reliant on anti-possession counter-play as us.
That notion is probably gone now after last night. We were way behind them. Was it effectively three open goals they missed? And they played some nice stuff at times.
The worry now is Denmark will spot how easy we were to dispossess when under any sort of pressure and will apply that on Monday. (In the meantime, if they don't lose tonight, we're relegated to League C, and I'd be worried at the moment about getting out of there - or even getting a tough group and getting relegated again!)
Obafemi not coming off the bench when we had to replace our sub forward (Maguire) surely means he won't get a look in on Monday. I think he'll switch allegiance to be honest.
Really disappointed in the booing. We should be above that rubbish regardless of what views people may have.
Even more disappointed in the performance. I honestly can't see things getting better under this management team. Half-decent players are consistently not playing to their potential. Most are struggling with the basics when they pull on the green shirt. They are lacking in cohesion and direction and it looks like the players have lost the will to live under MON. Last night I was perplexed to see Hendrick playing as a deep sitting midfielder in the second half. Stevens should have started wing-back, Brady further forward instead of McClean. When Whelan went off the obvious like-for-like switch should have been Williams.
I took a screen shot half way through the second half. Curtis was fed with a through ball and he was in possession maybe 20 years from goal, a bit wide of the box. He had one player within ten yards. Hendrick, Hourihane and Brady(?) were lined up neatly in a straight line 5 yards inside our own half. Said it all to me. Either too lazy (unlikely) or just too conservative or afraid to get forward in support and offer options. Any time we got the ball last night we laboured to work it wide and run into blind alleys - and that was our best passages of play.
There were some shocking home performances in the 80s but honestly, I think this is as bad as at any time I've been watching the team, nearly 40 years now.
I think the question needs to be asked - are things going to get better? Are there any indications that we will improve? Is there any belief that MonKeano have what it takes to turn things around.
If not, we are left paying over the odds for a management team which cannot produce a performance that is even the sum of the squad's parts.
Whether the squad is brilliant or atrocious, the least that should be expected of any management team is that they produce performances which properly reflect the resources available to them.
I would argue that considering what they are being paid, we should expect more than that, but we should expect at least that.
O'Neill really isn't helping himself. If you're going to skive on real preparation, then at least select players in the positions they're familiar with at club level. Why complicate it? Why give out about a lack of time to prepare and then compound it by selecting players for roles they're not used to? It makes no sense.
McClean isn't, and will never be an effective left wing back. Stevens, Doherty (when available) and even Brady are all clearly better options for this position. They've all done well in this position in the past. McClean hasn't.
Hourihane clearly wasn't the right choice to replace Whelan in a situation where our only other natural central midfield player on the pitch was Hendrick. Everybody knows Hourihane and Hendrick are less comfortable in a holding role. Williams was the obvious choice having done reasonably well in recent auditions.
Robinson plays wide of a front three and is scoring goals regularly from that position for Preston. Open to correction but I've never seen him play as a number nine, yet that's where O'Neill starts him, completely isolated without a Hoolahan type (McGoldrick/Crowley maybe) to link the play from midfield. Okay O'Dowda could have been that man also but he seemed to be hogging the right touchline more often than not.
Any team is going to look disjointed when there are so many players in unnatural roles, and that's only talking about last night. Christie in midfield previously is obviously the best example of 'MON shoehorning' in recent games, but he's also played James McCarthy as a number ten and Alan Judge on the right wing previously.
His substitutions don't seem very well thought out either, there are far too many rearrangements to be made once he gets to the second or third player from the bench, constant swapping and changing doesn't do anything to help gain any momentum.
We have an extremely limited pool of players but, at the moment, O'Neill is making it exceptionally difficult for them to perform with any cohesion.
I've been going for 29 years and that's easily the worst I've seen.
Suggesting changes of personnel with regards to the team is, I believe, pointless because I believe I know what a team who have "downed tools" looks like, having seen a few, and last night Ireland fit the bill. Without doubt.
If MON stays, being the optimist, perhaps he's capable of getting some perspective and fixing things (unlikely), maybe there might be the emergence of a wonderkid who bags us goals even when we're playing badly, or the players do a Paris with Trap job and just decide amongst themselves to ignore the management and go and show they can actually play some football.
Right now though I am one sad supporter and have no excitement about the qualifiers. And that's the first time for that.
Its more damning that the last example of a decent team goal from us comes from exactly 2 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
My views on this management team are clear since Denmark playoffs. They must go.
I am not seeking to keep on defending things but the goal in Wales '17 was very well worked. I am sure there are other examples.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
As I said, last night was bad but criticism needs to be balanced.
The goal in Wales was due to a high press in the attacking third of the pitch and a good cross, stepover and finish. I think 2 of our players touched it. Born of industry as opposed to inspiration. So not really a team goal. But a very enjoyable one!Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
I hear you about balance but I think that most people have abandoned it out of desperation. And rightly so, in my opinion.
Yeah, I'd agree with that. It was their throw mid-way inside their own half even. We just won the ball, sent a low cross into the box, dummied it and McClean hammered home. A good goal, but not a team goal.
I was thinking last night when our last decent performance was - by which I mean, competent and entertaining throughout as opposed to defending and grabbing a goal on the break. Italy in the Euros maybe?
But it's not just that last night was bad, it's the previous performances on top of that don't you think? He's experimenting sure but even good players like Coleman seem to be going backwards. I see a lot of the players in the Championship and they play far better than what we are seeing now in a green jersey. The one plus last night was that Brady's delivery remains excellent and since we're not going to score many from open play, that is vital. Otherwise his overall play was poor and he's no number 10 but I know he's just back. Arter should have been given a run as should have Obafemi. I didn't get the Christie substitution.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
yes I agree. After the wales thrashing I was willing to give the set-up a chance of redemption for the two home nations league matches. I thought we were solid, if not inspiring, against Denmark which I accepted as the first stage to improvement by stopping the mad concession of goals as seen in our previous two competitive matches: box ticked. I then hoped against wales we would add a bit of attacking play to the solid defensive showing against Denmark but it didn't happen: box not ticked.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Last night confirmed to me that we have little sign of improvement and I fear for us on Monday.
we are not getting the best out of our players and, although they are limited themselves, the north looked a far far better outfit than us last night. they also lack a goal scorer but if they had one we could have lost 2 nil. their passing was crisper and more purposeful and they were much more comfortable on the ball than us. although they were relegated (I think) from Group B last night they are far closer to getting the best out of their squad than us.
I think its time to freshen up the management set-up but I am equally frustrated by the U21 set up (although with king gone there is a chance to improve that) and JDs self centred leadership of the FAI, which gives me less hope for improvement than id like to have. every time I see a photo of a clubhouse opening in Ireland bloody JD has found his way into the photo...... is all about him and this has to change too.
When you have lads from a team that contain players from Oxford, Kilmarnock, Hearts and Burton playing better football than us you would definitely have to say that it is all down to the manager. Really have enough of Martin O'Neill. It is just one septic performance after another under him and it ain't going to get any better added to the fact that he is an unlikeble smart arse in general. The FAI should come up with the finances and get rid of him now before we become irrelevant altogether.
This, precisely.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapAPony
NI looked so much more comfortable on the ball that we did last night it looks like we are getting progressively worse.Our midfielders must of felt like plane spotters with necks craned skywards as ball after ball sailed over them from defense. Dundalk's first eleven would have given a more assured footballing performance.
Would that be the most repeated phrase in the life of many an Irishman?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
I missed most of the game, just caught snatches of it, was Maguire injured, what's the news on him?
Yeah Maguire pulled his hamstring. I continue to have high hopes for him but we will need him to be more durable as I believe he's our most dangerous front man when fit.
not sure about him to be honest. pushed off the ball too easily on a few occasions last nightQuote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
My view is that he can work for us in the right system but cannot be a lone striker with hoofball tactics. If we are relying on him to be a hold up player, yes, his physical weakness will be exposed. If we play with a deliberate pressing or counter attacking style I think his pace can be important and useful.
No but you see we don’t have the players for that, our players strength is to kick the ball as far away from the goal as possible and chase it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightstory
Bit of Sunday reading reflecting on last Thursday's debacle for anyone interested.
https://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.com/2...own-south.html