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Some comical stuff from both defences today. We were cruising until 5 minutes of defensive madness Griffin got himself hauled off as a result.
I knew when Hale celebrated in front of the shed we were sorted though. Every time someone does that, our lads immediately go down the other side and score. Funnily Sadlier did it for Sligo last year, as well as Burke giving us the 'shhh' for Rovers. Immediate goals every time.
Looks like Drogheda have just nabbed a 90th minute equaliser in Tolka - just like we did last month.
Shels will be annoyed with that; a draw for us v Drogheda next week and we're in a great position
Draw away to shels is a good result for us :) tbh I’d also take a draw on Friday if offered now. In series two we have a lot of away games - hold our own in this series and we will be in a good position in series three with majority home games.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Ye're favourites for sure but it's such a competitive league this year anything can happen. We're back in the mix again now after two crucial wins. We'll probably drop points to Cabo next though.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Actually, we've a tough end to round 2; Drogheda home, Harps away and Longford home. Maybe a win on Friday will be needed to keep us on top with 9 to go.
Cobh v Galway underway now; a Cobh would be great, but probably unlikely given how poor Cobh have been this season
Cobh have picked up a bit lately since Henderson threatened to quit. Wouldn't be surprised if they got something.
Another pathetic performance from Harps. Time for change.
Great to beat the hachetmen from the hills. Another win against Cabo we'll be motoring.
I think the last minute nature of those 4 points dropped papers over that Shels are bang average and uncreative under Heary, only really threatened the goal for the first time when we actually scored and then you have the statue Alan Byrne getting himself sent off for a stupid 2nd yellow 2 minutes laterQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Shels players were certain Mark Doyle dived for that penalty, hard to tell from my vantage. Poor game, fair result, if UCD don't go off the rails in the final 12 games they'll win the league
Finished 0-0.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Seems to be between UCD & Drogheda for the title with four other teams in the running for the play off's.
Very exciting 1st div this season.
Cobh 0-0 Galway. There was a real lack of quality in the final third today. Eoin McCormack in particular had a very poor game after finding himself in good positions plenty of times but contriving to make a balls of it each time. Good point for a young Cobh side.
I think it is comparable; There was a whole lot of talk of the league being won by August last year and I'd be pretty sure Caulfield would have wanted to notch up that record especially with the insecurities in Cork of not getting the credit due to them, a vindication of sorts. It was getting nervy and Cork fans were desperate to get it over the line - El Pietro iirc was quite worried prior to the Dundalk game as a Dundalk win and a 20 point gap was down to 7 with 5(?) games to play and Corks form was that of a team where the pressure was getting to them. Dundalk's form wasnt great all season but dropping 5 points to the two Rovers post CL games and prior to the Cork game was really our undoing as much as the slow start especially as Cork were coughing up points. If Cork had been put under serious pressure at that point in July/August it would have gone to the wire as picking up the needed 3 points with draws wouldnt really have done with a 20 point gap down to single figures (Cork with a game in hand) with 4 games to play including Dundalk. It was such an impressive 1st half to the season that when Maguire left and how ropey things got it made Cok look like a one man team and JC would not have liked that observation at all not to have had the team up for it. The draw with Dundalk helped stop the rot as it was much more a when not if after, but even then after the league was won if Dundalk hadnt lost to Bohs the league would have finished with 4 points the gap and that was as much of a story of 2017. I know its if and buts .... but it looks like a spirited fightback from 20 points adrift and that Cork fell over the line and it took the gloss off an incredible season for Cork. There was plenty on the line in August even if it was just an emphasis on how dominant Cork were. All that was missing was a Kevin Keegan like meltdown and Dundalk robbing the title lol. Nobody expected that there would be anything to play for in October but was closer than JC would hav liked i'm sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
This season 6 or 7 points isnt an unassaible lead with so many head to head games and that teams outside of the top two being able to compete and take points. Being top with with a quarter of the season left means little and it will be a nervy finish to the league. Strength in depth of respective squads during and after European games will have a significant bearing on the final table. I hope Cork have a fine run in Europe (including some long trips to the likes of Kazakhstan and Belarus) but likewise Dundalk could have a few European ties. Dundalk will have a bit more saavy in balancing playing on the two fronts I think. The addition of Waterford to the Munster derbies make things a bit harder for Cork though the sooner the 100% record in Turners Cross goes the better for us all:p Derry have really lost their way since the loss to Dundalk in fortress Brandywell and I wouldnt at all mind the same for Cork City. Lets hope there will be no expunging of results for Bray or Limerick as either would change the landscape in the short term at the top of the table beyond the impact for those 2 clubs and the league as a whole. It isnt particularly fair that Dundalk will have played Bray and now Limerick just after both clubs revealed issues with players not being payed. All in all it is shaping up to be the most exciting finish to a season for the last 5 years even considering the last day 2014..... another cup final showdown for a doulbe to keep this rivalry nice and fresh would be fun too!!
I disagree on your assessment of last season, I genuinely think there was no chance of us losing the league after Seani left.
But I agree, being top now means little, although it's nice to be there after a few weeks of listening to people say how it's a one horse race!
Very exciting rest of the season ahead I think, as I said above I can't imagine the drop off that will lead to Dundalk winning by the margin others are mentioning. But I agree that the games around Europe will be key to it, as will the final 2 head to heads.
Also agree on Bray Limerick. Be horrible for it to be decided like that.
Are Galway full time or is that 1st div terrace rumours? If full time then the league position is crazy!Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Pietro
I don’t think they are. Someone, possibly Stephen McGuinness, said in pre season that they were remaining full time but from what Galway fans have said on here they’re part time. They may still have a bigger budget than the rest of us though.
I'm not so sure that is correct in relation to Bray. There was a lot of talk about their injury list prior to the last match in Oriel at the end of May that led some to speculate that these were phantom injuries due to not being paid - but as far as I know both the club and players denied that there was any such payment issues at that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Limerick shipped an 8-0 defeat on the last visit to Oriel Park - pay or no pay, I don't expect that to be repeated on Friday
That's fair observation, It may not have been true as reported at Bray. If there was any problem it cant but have a negative impact on team morale and performance. While Limerick are poor in general but have lifted the odd performance again its the worst sort of preperation for what would be a difficult game for them with great preperation, Dundalk should win anyway and with Limerick players futures in doubt a comprehensive away win should be expected (watch Dundalk huff and puff to a result now that Ive said that lol).
micls, it was a slim chance that Cork wouldnt have won the league but Cork looked like they had really lost their way from August and September and scraped a couple of draws that were on the lucky side eg late equalisers. Dundalk have struggled against Cork in recent seasons as we know and in the 1-1 in Turners Cross we didnt play at all well yet Cork laboured to that draw; If compared to the 3 nil win in Oriel Park in June it reflects the way the season went with Cork's July/August form. It is a bit of a contradiction to say that Caulfield's teams are always motivated and up for it but let 20 odd points slip to 7. JC wouldnt have calculated things so finely to have the foot taken off the gas as if Dundalk had won in Cork and assuming the 'something to play for' angle applies to Dundalk too and hadnt lost to Bohs in the penultimate game then the winning margin is 2 points. Thats far too close for Caulfield not having his team fully motivated during that spell. If the pints needed where in the bag August/September and then every game was lost for the winning margin to be a few points then nothing to play for stuff fits. Its all academic of course and your unwavering confidence is or was laudable. I cant say that if roles were reversed that some slivers doubt wouldnt have crept in. Maybe its ptsd from 8 years in the 1st division lol.
More on topic -'m surprised that Soccer Republic didnt go near anything on the Lopez tackle in the highlights. Ok McGrath luckily wasnt injured and it was key to the final result but surely it was worthy of a mention. The Maguire interview was good and he has come on leaps and bounds in how he interviews. He comes across as a very relaxed and content lad, comfortable with the attention. Hopefully a good preseason for him with PNE and keeps injury free and we will see him have an impact with Ireland as he had with Cork. Its a pity we didnt see more of him at Dundalk but with David McMillan so well established it was always going to be tough breaking in to the team 1st season. Im sure he gained something from his time in Oriel even if it was just strenght and conditioning.
Just to clarify, of course JC didn't plan for us to do so poorly or anything. I actually remarked yesterday after we scored after letting Derry back into it, that I dunno what our team would do if they were properly favourites for any competition. It works for them and JC to be underdogs, he plays on that. We definitely struggled with the lead. I guess for me, going into that Dundalk game, I wasn't thinking 'we might only be 7 points up after this', I was thinking 'we can win the league tonight'. Our record against you played a big part in that, I wasnt overly worried about losing.
But yes, while I don't think the situations are too similar, especially on the underdogs vs run away leaders motivation sense. We did technically what I said we wouldn't. I just don't think its the same kind of situation. But we'll see!
In a post-match interview, Sheppard revealed that he has had a persistent back injury for a number of weeks. It seems to have cleared up now (hopefully).
Shep definitely wasn't himself in some games in the 2nd series. Had a cracking game yesterday. Hopefully he's back to his best.
As has been said a few times Dundalk fans know exactly the challange that lies ahead and we are not claiming a favourites tag or suggesting a runaway league win. If there is to be an outright favourite then it would have to be Cork based on the majority of yer recent results against Dundalk and with the head to head being so key this season. I tend to agree that the pressure of leading from the front didnt suit cork that well last season. There wont be a collapse in form like last season by Cork but mainly due to not heavily relying on the exceptional performances of one player.Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
Harps once again abject at home to average opposition,Some of the defending for the goals we conceded was untrue,and going the other way attacking wise we look laboured and slow,desperate need of a result in Galway.
Yeah, I accept its not the dundalk camp or fans making the one horse race comments. Although obviously yed love if it did end like that!
Supporters are inevitably influenced by what they see live against their own club.
A Bray supporter may view Cork in a different light after two successive 0-4 defeats, than how they see Dundalk after a 0-0 in Oriel and an unlucky 0-2 defeat in the Carlisie. On the other hand Shamrock Rovers supporters may have witnessed a comprehensive 3-0 win over Cork and compare it with last weeks 2-5 defeat to Dundalk.
The playing style of Dundalk is widely acknowledged as more fluent and creative and this may unduly influence some peoples opinion; although it is a very different issue from which team is likely to gather enough points to win the league.
it is probable that the league race will go right to the wire, and head-to-head results, how far the respective teams progress in Europe and their ability to deal with it, strength in depth of the squads, the willingness and abilty of the managers to rotate players, and dollops of luck are likely to all play a significant part.
I'd agree with all of that. And I can understand completely why Rovers fans would see Dundalk as more likely to win the league than us. I think though, a lot of people, especially on the podcasts and the like, seem to conflate your second point with meaning they'll win by a distance, while ignoring the points on the board to a certain extent.
That said, they said on GLITW Caulfield is probably delighted that they're downplaying our chances, and they're probably right. There are times you'd be worried about complacency in a double winning team, at least we don't have that worry!
Teams that win leagues and doubles should not have to worry about motivation. I suggest that whether LOI pundits are lauding Cork, or ignoring them, it has no effect on Cork. If they were influenced by such things they would not have turned three successive runner up spots into a title win.Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
Whatever one thinks about Corks playing style, there should be no doubts about their determination and bottle.
Our style has been generally awful this season and performances have been in-line with that for the most part. However, I feel we've turned a corner these past few weeks and have looked far more fluid and incisive. Most of us have been acknowledging the poor performances and saying/hoping that we had improvement in us. That seems to have been proven correct.
Personally, I'd still have Dundalk as slight favourites and I feel that they are more likely to win the league by more than 3 points than us, if you know what I mean. It'll still be tight either way IMO.
I disagree there. Its not rare to see a team who has won the league struggle a bit the following season. Whether it's the pressure of being favourites, keeping the motivation or hunger or what. To be fair to Dundalk, that never seemed to happen to ye, but it wouldn't be unusual. Those three runners up spots were no doubt huge motivation.Quote:
Originally Posted by White Horse
For us, we've never retained a league, so it would be huge to do so.
If Cork showed the sort of positivity and confidence away from home that they do in Turners Cross Dundalk would really need to up their chance to goal ratio and put games to bed rather than giving fans heart attacks in injury time. Whether it is Caulfield's default mode again to be more conservative away like prior to last season or a vulnerability when up against a partizan crowd Cork fans would have a better idea. If its the former then it seems like a bit of lacking in confidence in the players to just get on and play their game regardless of where they are playing. If its the latter then the players are spoilt by the great support in Turners Cross and are a little brittle without that level home support whan playing away. I think it was a misjudgement by Caulfield to imply that biased crowds influence results as the players can unwittingly feed in to such thinking. Not unlike talking up an advantage to a pitch. As in micls example of an away team celebratng in front of The Shed it serves to motivate the Cork players to lift their performance and hit back - its the same type of psychology and transferring that steeliness to all venues would be ominous for any of Cork's opponents. It is probably playing away from home in Europe that shows a team's complete belief in their ability and system or not if there is any reverting to panicky hoofing the ball long!??
Caulfield is a naturally defensive manager. Always has been and always will be. He builds his team on being solid defensively. He will likely always be of the opinion that the priority away from home is to not lose, and then look to win. Its worked for him so its hard to argue. Success is the decider, whatever peoples opinions on style of play.
I do think there is a difference in panicking and aimlessly playing the ball long, and looking for a long pass to a strong player up front. I would say most of the time we are the second type. Look for a pass up front quickly, and get our dangerous players supporting that ball once it's up there. It generally works well. Earlier this season though, there were definitely games where it was panicky get the all forward style though. Personally, I think a fair bit of that is down to how young the 2 centre halves are. I think they've been told to be sure, and if they're not sure, then just clear it. It's been very obvious when Benno came back in recently, that he started looking for shorter balls into the middle to McNamee and Keohane. In fairness, McLoughlin has become more confident it doing it too. McCarthy though, like Delaney last year, tends to either hoof it, or look for the incredible defense splitting long ball which tends to not come off often. Cummins is starting to bring players into play a lot more recently, which has improved our overall play significantly.
I've really enjoyed out last 4/5 games. Very enjoyable to watch and hopeful we can bring that form into Europe.
I wouldn't be expecting us to open up and play the ball around away from home in Europe though. Its not Caulfield's style.
Well it worked eventually with an exeptional season by Maguire. Arguably not so solid after Maguire left. 3 leagues, cup (double) and 2 league cups. Some good results in Europe including away fom home. A league and Cup double is not to be sneezed at but on balance the relative success of each club over the last 4 years sways to the less conservative approach giving better return. This season's end will show that a pragmatic, conservative approach can be just effective if Cork retain the league. If Cork dont retain the league it could well be down to Caulfield's safety first away from home as obviously winning 2 from 6 games is same return as 6 solid draws and Cork would win more than 2 from 6 even if caution is thrown to the wind. In Europe if drawn at home first and Caulfield will probably set up not to concede even in Turners Cross. Its not a criticism but the second half of last season has probably caused JC to revert to type and I think it shackles a talented squad that is well capable of winning away from home in most cases without the over cautious approach.Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
No arguable about it, we weren't anywhere near as solid towards the end of last season. Our structure was poor and we struggled. Part of it was adapting to losing Seani, part of it was probably a general bad patch you'd have most seasons, part was coping with the pressure I'm sure.
Start of this season we were very dodgy defensively. We've had a lot of change in the back 4 and it took time to get the right people and get it right. There's clearly been enormous work done in that regard and it's a credit to them.
Personally, I don't think the success of the last few seasons between the two clubs is directly comparable. Obviously, you guys have been far more successful, there's no questioning that. But style of play aside, Kenny is an incredibly experienced and successful manager in the league. He had ye finishing 2nd the year before Caulfield took over, while we were 6th. I think ye're squad was miles ahead of us at that point and the success of the following years is an indictment of that. Kenya experience of the league definitely stood to him in attracting players and building the squad he wanted (a few times over).
While Caulfield hasn't been as successful as Kenny has in that time, he has had incredible sustained and consistent success in his short time as an LOI manager. As a club we have never been consistent as we are now. He's won more trophies than any previous manager and had us challenging every year, as well as securing our first double and retaining the Cup for the first time ever. I don't think anyone would have asked for more than that when he came in.
I'd agree Kennys style is a big part of ye're European success, and it suits better on that front.
I don't think you're draws vs wins example is valid though. We're not going out, playing conservatively and drawing 6 games. We're going away, playing relatively conservatively and winning most games. Away from home we've won 6, lost 3 and drawn 2.
Of the draws, we played attacking football in Limerick, but we didn't take our chances. You could definitely argue we could have attacked more in Derry.
Of the losses, we simply didn't show up against yourselves and Rovers. I don't think it was really a style thing. You both scored early and we were chasing the game unsuccessfully for the rest of it. For Waterford you could argue we could have pushed on more after our goal.
I would say we could potentially have gained 4 extra points playing more attacking. Would we have potentially dropped that amount or more if we'd been more attacking in all games? Possibly, we were poor defensively earlier in the season. Who knows. Overall though, our away form isn't bad, though obviously not as good as at home.
It's always going to be hard to compare the effectiveness of styles of football in the league directly. Budget, squad, ability to attract players all have such a huge influence on things as well. I don't think if we retain the league this season it means Caulfields style is better or more effective than Kennys. Similarly I wouldn't think the opposite. They're different managers with different approaches to the game. I think both styles can be effective within the league (Europe is a different story), and it will come down to the smaller nitty gritty stuff, like the head to heads.
There's some misconception that we were playing fantastic football this time last year and have reverted to something different now. There is very little different in our current style of play than this time last year. The difference was a superstar up front. We're playing some lovely stuff now too (different in style from Kenny though), and hopefully we keep up the form
Apparently Shep has been dealing with Arthritis since last August which he has only recently been able to manage through a series of injections. Incredible that he just got on with it and never came out to explain that he was suffering so badly. If he has fully recovered then we have just gotten a super star in League of ireland terms back. It sounds like the injections have made his condition completely manageable and may even cure it over the long term.Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Pietro
http://leagueofireland.ie/index.php/...ith-arthritis/
Dundalk dodged a bullet there.
I'm sure your medical team would have been aware of it when it came to doing a medical?Quote:
Originally Posted by White Horse
Anyway, great to see him back to his best. He was absolutely fantastic on Monday and a great reminder of what he's capable of. Delighted for him that things are on the up.
Dunno about that unless a blood panel was done to look specifically for those markers. Maybe its routine but I doubt it. It great that how he is being managed has allowed him continue to play but tbh it will catch up with him. He wont be playing beyond his mid 30's and thats at a push. Just on this “The injection creates a natural fluid in the body that stops the grinding of sore bones' - every auld person in the country would be getting this if it was a 'solution' rather than a stop gap. Deep heat on the back where there are cuts.......why?? and Ouch!!!!
Just had a quick look there and there isnt a specific blood work up that would indicate anything, its a combination of things or more a process of elimination. Anything autoimmune is going to be a long term issue and current management isnt a cure. He might be lucky and it be mild but it can also flare and get severe. So WH isnt far off by his thinking in dodging a bullet. If Cork get a couple of good seasons symptom free its a bonus!!
I meant more your medical team would realise there was a problem, he had consistent back problem and couldn't stand properly at times at that stage, rather than they'd diagnose exactly what it was.
I'm sure its a long road ahead for Shep, just delighted for him that he's found a treatment that's working for now and hopefully it continues to be successful as he hopes. He's a fantastic lad and great to see him enjoying football again.
Ah yeah its great that anything is working and long may it continue for him. It sounds like the problem was a bit of a mystery and the club doc/physio looked for some expertise that sussed out the issue and a job well done. For sure the medical at Oriel would have shown up a problem (with his back as you say) and likely have put a question mark over the signing. But it was unlikely that any medical would have flagged much more beyond a back issue. They could have taken a punt on getting it sorted possibly, not knowing the root cause. The deep heat on his back is an odd one, topical voltorol yup that would help but I will say again Ouch!. I hope he is in the lucky camp and plays for as long as he wishes!! But tbh as things are currently its management of the condition rather than a jab a week fixing it for him - that could change too. How is Dunleavy's recovery, maybe i missed it but is he back kicking ball?
He has a specific type of Arthritis called Psoriatic Arthritis. In the article with Johnny Ward he said that the doctor was hopeful that within 4-5 years the injections would no longer be necessary but even if they were still required he could continue taking them. A City fan on our forum has said they have the same condition and have been taking the injections for 12 years. I have no idea how much pain he will still be in if any, or how long he can continue playing, just going off the article and the quotes from KS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Psoriatic arthrisis should have been easy to pick up since it's a direct consequence of psoriasis. A GP can make a connection between symptoms (skin plaques, joint pain, hm!) and refer to a specialist. Other forms are much harder to find - seronegative rheumatoid arthritis is a particular bu**er to diagnose (rheumatoid but all the tests say it isn't) and it's often mistreated as osteoarthritis. Either way, it's a painful condition for daily living, never mind for an elite athlete. I've had a few flares in recent years of another type and the pain has floored me. I wish him the very best.