I can't make the game, so if anybody in Cork needs 2 tickets, I have 2 great seats in Block 103 for face value (109 on the receipt). Just send me a private message.
I can't make the game, so if anybody in Cork needs 2 tickets, I have 2 great seats in Block 103 for face value (109 on the receipt). Just send me a private message.
I think O'Neill implied that he wasn't committed.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Interesting, do you have any quote or link ?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
He seemed committed enough earlier this year.
O'Neill was supposed to be having another look at him, but I don't know if he's mentioned him since this.
Can't link but it's today's article in Independent: Striking concerns as O'Neill gears up for battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
Interesting alright, very odd and vague. They could have really asked him to elaborate further on that, if they didn't. Did Mason just want a Euro call up?!
Quote:
There is no update on the pursuit of Brentford's Scott Hogan, and the 64-year-old added that there could be some doubts surrounding the intentions of Wolves attacker Joe Mason despite the fact he was capped up to U-21 level.
Dan could have added the words O'Neill spoke about Joe Mason to the article, otherwise don't mention it all,
what we are left with it, is something sinister implied, left hanging in the air and that's poor journalism.
Should there be doubts on Joe's behalf, then he should have been informed that he won't be asked twice.
I do hope Maguire can build on his season and get another chance to make it at a high level across the water, but, while I don't want to denigrate the LOI Premier, there are clear reasons why the SPL can be considered to be of a higher standard and why Adam Rooney's SPL record can be considered to indicate that he is, currently at least, a better striking option than Sean Maguire:Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
- Scotland is ranked 21 by UEFA, Republic of Ireland 40
- Average salary of SPL in 2014, 182789 pounds (http://the18.com/news/study-reveals-...s-around-world) average salary in LOI in 2015, 16000 euros (http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-31144122.html). Now I know that salary differentials are not an accurate indicator of gaps in ability, but they do indicate that there is a clear difference, especially when the salary levels in the LOI indicate that Maguire may be scoring goals against semi-professional players.
- Most of Aberdeen's players have international experience up to U-21 level at least with a number of full internationals, whereas Cork City have three or four.
- There has been at least one SPL team in the group stages of the Champions League in 10 of the last 13 years
I think that the long-term nature of Rooney's form still gives him the edge. I feel that if he got a late chance to get a winning goal against Georgia, the confidence he has built up from scoring 64 times over the last two-and-a-half seasons would make him more apt to tuck it away than Doyle, who has lost his scoring habit since his streak for Chesterfield. Now I know Doyle is playing at Championship level, so if he went on a serious scoring run later in the season, he may climb above Rooney in the pecking order, but for now Rooney's form makes him the better option, IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
I don't think any of the above really has anything to do with standard between the leagues. I take Pineapple Stus point regarding teams like Longford and Finn Harps being part time sides and not of the same standard, but the top half of the LOI Premier is certainly equivalent to SPL outside of maybe Celtic, and I'd even fancy Dundalk to beat Celtic this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by samhaydenjr
Salary has nothing to do with it. Salary is different because Scottish football is supported in Scotland and have big money TV deals worth £15 million a year, top flight clubs get £3.75 million a year from TV the deal with Sky and BT. There's £3 million for winning the SPL down to just under £1 million for finishing in last place. Irish clubs don't get anything from TV coverage in comparison, and the winners of the League of Ireland get €120,000 this season, which is improved on recent seasons. 12th place gets €20,000. Easier to afford bigger salaries on the sort of money SPL teams get for simply taking part.
UEFA ranking is down to Celtic. Scotland is ranked 22nd at the minute, Ireland is 37th. Despite the absolutely astronomical differences in finances, that Ireland is only 15 places behind Scotland (bumped up the rankings because of Celtics regular CL appearances), is quite good.
If you want to look at rankings, Celtic are 44th and well above any LOI side, but after that Aberdeen & Motherwell joint 201st, St Johnstone 207th, Hearts 230th, Hibs & Dundee 267th and Inverness 289th.
In comparison, LOI sides, Dundalk 227th (one win would put them above all the rest of the SPL sides bar Celtic), St Pats 285th, Sligo 327th, Shamrock Rovers 333rd and Cork 355th aren't a huge bit different, despite the fact the LOI starts off with a much, much smaller country co-efficient points compared to the head start Scottish sides get which can make up a whole load of places easily in the rankings.
Cork have three or four with international experience? I count at least 9 with either full caps or under-21 caps, three of which are current under-21 squad members.
At least one SPL team in group stages okay, but how many times has a team outside of Celtic qualified for a group stage of either Europa or CL in the past 10 years? Since 2011-12 season, there's been two Irish sides in Group stage action. Outside of Celtic, there's been no Scottish teams in the same period.
That's a huge difference to what you said originally. And I still don't know if I agree. Would Bray or Sligo compete in the SPL?Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
I don't think the European coefficient rankings are a great indicator of strength; they often take very few games, especially if one club has only been in Europe once in the past five years, say. Also, Pat's coefficient is based in part on games from five years ago - they're a much weaker side now.
There's a history of LoI players moving to the SPL.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
If they were good enough at present, the SPL would sign them, and higher wages would mean they'd be very likely to be taken up. But there's nobody moving that way recently.
You can't dismiss Scotland's ranking as being "down to Celtic" (which is true) and not note that Ireland's ranking is down to Dundalk. We were 46th this year before Dundalk's campaign got going.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Are they any worse than, say, Inverness or Partick Thistle? I don't think so. Far too much respect being awarded to very average sides in Scotland methinks.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Maybe the interest is still there, but players aren't willing to make the move there?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Ireland started in 41st this year. My point was simply that taking out Celtic would have the two on a much more even footing in the rankings.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Full-time v part-time on its own will make a big difference over a full league season. So I would say Bray and Sligo would be worse than ICT and Partick.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Why wouldn't they move for an average salary of £180k? Or even half that?Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
We dropped as low as 46th during the season, before Dundalk got going.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
I know. And I pointed out that you can't do that and leave Dundalk in. Dundalk bias our ranking the same way Celtic bias the SPL's ranking. Had Dundalk been knocked out by FH after two draws, the LoI would now be 42nd in Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
It would be about half that figure at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Average spl salary figures are misleading. The spl is one of the most unequal leagues in Europe when it comes to salaries, here's some recent figures average salaries paid by clubs
Here's a bit useless tittle tattle but on-thread tittle tattle.
Georgia's new coach is Vladimir Weiss, who has a father named Vladimir Weiss and a son named Vladimir Weiss, all footballers.
Vladdy Weiss
Vladdy Weiss
Vladdy Vladdy Weiss
He gets the ball...
I think I made this joke before. You need to be a Rovers / LOI fan from the 80s.
Yeah, I knew Celtic would skew it alright, though didn't think it'd be quite as bad as those figures show.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Hard to know how, say, players just up from the underage structure and on the fringes of the first-team affect that - and it's not even stated if that's a 52-week contract, though I presume it is.
Still, if you were on, say, E750 a week here for 35 weeks and were offered £1,500 a week for 52 weeks, would you move? I'd say the majority would.
Not as good as Wolfgang Wolf of Wolfsburg though :)Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Randolph
Coleman, Keogh, O'Shea, Ward
McClean, Hendrick, McCarthy (Whelan), Brady
Hoolahan
Long
I think that's the best team to get a result in view of the opposition. A team that can get the best out of all our players. Whelan and McCarthy do their best work when they don't play together. Whelan and a McCarthy functioning at 75% capacity is a nightmare on paper. It's a team that can get the best out of both Hoolahan and Long. It's a young enough team from the midfield on, with McClean, Brady, Hendrick and Long's legs to bounce off Hoolahan, along with McCarthy's engine.
We don't want a situation like the Scotland match in Dublin where you have four players in their mid-thirties all starting from the midfield onwards and there is no fluidity or pace. It completely invalidates starting Hoolahan.
Of course, Walters will start tomorrow so this is all null and void. It's just a question of where he is shoehorned in and who he replaces. Does he replace McClean? Does he start instead of Hoolahan and partner Long up top? Does he play off Long?
Bray and Sligo aren't part-time. Bray have a huge wage bill this year in fact, relative to their income and stature from what I am led to believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
As per the figures posted above, why would Ger Bolger move to Scotland and uproot his family for potentially only £1,000 a week? Is it really worth it for him? He'd be as well at home on €500 or €600 at Cork.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
That's a fair point to a certain extent, but Celtic are only taken out because of the huge gulf in finances, equivalent to a top half English Premier Division club. If they were spending such fortunes and not succeeding in Europe, there'd be serious questions to be asked. The rest of the SPL don't have that, and that's where I'm comparing them to Dundalk and the other LOI sides in Europe. You could argue Dundalk to be taken out next season due to their financial windfall, but this year, they're on fairly even footing with the top four or five clubs in the league of Ireland financially so I left them involved in the discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Bray are part-time; not sure about Sligo. There's a difference between having a big wage budget and being full-time.
Does Bolger have a family? (I don't know) Many LoI players would be happy to go for a 52-week contract and the chance of career progression. The chance to play in Parkhead, maybe get spotted and move on like Sammon/Hoolahan. Lots of reasons. And if he goes from €500 to £1,000 a week as you suggest (and I appreciate these are makey-uppey figures), then he's more than doubled his salary - even assuming Cork are on 52-week contracts (which they might be if they're full time?). Not all players will want to, but I still think more would take such an offer than not.
Dundalk are one team skewing the standings, and don't speak for the entire league, or how Pat's/Galway/Bohs - lower mid-table teams - would fare in the SPL. That's my point. By all means take Celtic out when looking at UEFA rankings - but you have to take Dundalk out for a fair comparison then.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
I followed Rovers in the 1980s and I am struggling to relate to this one. Give us a clue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
It's not connected to
He shoots
he missed
he must be feckin pi*sed
Glory oh, glory oh
by any chance?
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Sligo are full time, Bray definitely have full time players in their ranks.
Bohs' midfielder Larry Wyse used to always get targeted by Hoops fans. Even after he left and played for Athlone(?).
Larry Wyse
Larry Wyse
Larry Larry Wyse
He gets the ball
He does f*** all
Larry Larry Wyse
In NYC during the World Cup in ’94 we sang a different version outside the UN building
Boutros Boutros Ghali
Boutros Boutros Ghali
Boutros Boutros Boutros Boutros Ghali
...and so on
Weiss the 3rd played against us for Slovakia back in March, also played against us in the Euro 2012 qualifier in October 2010Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
What does a full-time player mean though?Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
The difference between a full-time set-up and a part-time set-up is huge - in terms of time for team training, match prep, gym and cardio, etc, etc. You can't do that with just one or two full-time players.
But if a club has one full-time player in their ranks, how does that help them if the other ten are all coming from work? And how many full-time players do UCD have? Most of them are students with no other jobs - does that count?
I think you overestimate Bray. And underestimate the SPL. Overall, like for like, it's a better league than the LoI. But I suspect Dundalk and Cork would do quite well in it.
We can just call him The Holy Ghost.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
3 Weiss men.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Came in here looking for news on the Georgia game and I end up reading through a debate on the SPL vs LOI and the family history on the Weiss'.
Didn't the Crosby lad get banned for bringing threads of topic? :rolleyes:
I'm struggling to think of a single post Crosby made that was on topic to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by IsMiseSean
Weiss' cube.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I know that the SPL salaries are skewed dramatically by Celtic, and the article you linked to brings a bit more clarity to the discussion - but even at that, the wage of the average player at the lowest playing squad is around the same as the best-paid player in the LOI Premier earns. And if Adam Rooney earns the average salary of an Aberdeen player, he would be getting paid 140000 pounds and scoring regularly over the course of two-and-half seasons against fully professional defenses, whereas Sean Maguire is probably being paid somewhere between 15-25000 euros and has only been scoring consistently for one season against defenses that are likely to include some part-timers at least. Which is why Adam Rooney would be a better choice as our back-up striker, for now at leastQuote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Well that's ice hockey concussions for you ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
That's so bad its good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
And yes no one is an 80s rovers fan so stop making jokes no one cares about :P
Weiss cubed, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Weiss' script?
True. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by IsMiseSean
I think we're all a little bit worried about actually talking about the match. I'm not really confident at all after that Serbia shambles, the rake of injuries and how we struggled past Georgia twice last season - I think they're due a bit of luck against us.
Can easily see us dropping two points here. Maybe three.
We aren't missing any players who would be guaranteed to start.
Georgia are - Lobjanidze and Kankava.
Perhaps MON is getting his excuses in early.
Went to school with Wyse's brother or cousin (can't remember which) so didn't join in the chants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
A word to the weiss, give up when you're ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Yeah, I'm not sure if I'm nervous because the loss of any points from these two game will probably be catastrophic, or if it's because I think we might slip up.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
In theory, we should have enough at home tonight, especially if we pick the right team. I'd happily take another shambolic performance with such a positive result though.
Just to add to the apprehension, I'd kind of forgotten that Georgia beat a very strong looking Spanish side away from home in the run up to the Euros.
Spain 0-1 Georgia
I'm not positive about tonight, I firmly believe if we continue in the ideals of playing football the way O'Neill wants us to play, then our luck will run out soon. As others have said, if we drop points tonight, then it's a big blow.