Delaney is a non-issue. He clearly isn't committed. Constantly referring to him having questioned the commitment of someone like Jonny Walters (and others) in the past really does serve to discredit an opinion.
Delaney is a non-issue. He clearly isn't committed. Constantly referring to him having questioned the commitment of someone like Jonny Walters (and others) in the past really does serve to discredit an opinion.
from http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-34741106.html
Well, that's that cleared up.Quote:
O’Neill has cut Paul McShane, Jonny Hayes, Alex Pearce and Anthony Pilkington from his provisional 35-man squad, while newcomer Callum O’Dowda is here to gain experience for the long term
To me that smacks of a reailisation, acceptance even admittance on MONs part that he will be more proactive in the future with young lads getting them into the setup, for what reasons? Well it can't be anything other than the Grealish incident. As he always previously stated there was no rushing or begging players to play for Ireland. He obviously thinks this is a way of turning their heads, without being seen to beg them. Its a good strategy and it another measurement of his ability to adapt or put the hand up.
There's the makings of a very eloquent, clear and to the point breakfast time question for the management team there, Paul. Well done.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Or maybe it could be for the reasons that he's actually stated. Far-fetched, I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
MO'N was hyper proactive with Grealish (and family) to get him into the senior set up, in contrast to his chilled out, laissex-faire proactive approach with O'Dowda.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...es-401460.htmlQuote:
There was a brief shadow cast on a sun-splashed open training session in front of a few thousand squealing school-children at the Aviva yesterday when Shane Long was seen to withdraw from the action with an apparent injury.
However, it was later indicated that it was a minor issue relating to his knee and that the curtailment of his involvement was purely precautionary.
Gary Rogers training with the team again today: https://twitter.com/OCowzer/status/735410151717502977
Quote:
That's both baffling and outrageous.
Surely Given, Randolph and Forde is sufficient until Westwood is able to join up with the squad?
I think Doyle is taking a gamble by remaining in America. It's a chance for McGoldrick to overtake him in O'Neill's thoughts - and it looks like he may have already done that.
Isn't Forde with the Millwall team ahead of the play off final?
<EDIT>
Yep, from the42.ie: http://www.the42.ie/its-not-just-me-...84772-May2016/
Quote:
However, with Westwood and Forde both unavailable in the coming days due to play-off commitments with their clubs, Given is expected to get one last chance to remind Martin O’Neill of his talents as Ireland prepare for friendlies against the Netherlands and Belarus.
Oh yeah. Then it makes sense calling Rogers up. Especially with Given's tendency to get injured reading the morning newspaper.
Well not sure we can believe the journo who covered on this one, but the horse had already bolted by that stage, so the laissex-faire non proactive approach wouldn't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
You alluded that MO'N wasn't pro active enough with Grealish and now had learned from that mistake, evidenced by his treatment of O'Dowda.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
The recorded facts are that MO'N was very proactive with getting young Grealish to commit and had invited him to join up with the senior squad (before Grealish's time) on a number of different occasions plus visited his family and probably other contact was made which is not a matter of public record.
The horse being bolted wasn't anything to do with what you're talking about there.
I was referring to this(i know i know) - where John Fallon originally said he would have accepted a call up to the summer tour to the US http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...es-tenure.html
Had Grealish got the call in the summer of 2014, this entire saga could well have been avoided. From the outset, however, O’Neill has been reactionary rather than proactive
It was only after Grealish starred in the FA Cup semi-final win over Liverpool in April that he finally realised what was on offer. By that stage, it was too late.
from john fallon:
With four friendlies, including two in America, arranged for May/June 2014, latitude for experimentation was there for O’Neill to utilise in the lead-up to the Euro 2016 qualifiers commencing in September. Grealish wasn’t deemed worthy of being part of that process, even as a fringe player
I know Delores or Di had pointed out that fallon had contradicted himself somewhat, but the point I am making is the scenario was less important in 2014 when we had nothing to play for when a player playing league 2 wasnt selected for meaningless friendlies, however going into our euro campaign that now seems to have changed. It can't purely be because O'Neill believes O'Dowda to be better than Grealish was.
There's no relation between the O'Dowda call-up and Grealish for me. Calling up O'Dowda is a continuation of calling up the best U21 players - Byrne and Browne - to see how they acquit themselves without the pressure of being in the actual squad.
I'd agree that O'Neill is being more proactive with regards our future talent, I'd disagree that it has anything to do with Grealish. If anything, that whole episode may have put him off chasing guys who might not be fully committed as it turned out to be a waste of his time. He has fully explained the O'Dowda call up at this stage and I see no reason to suggest ulterior motives*, especially considering he's done the same with 'fully' Irish players in recent squads, as Charlie says.
(*major bonus if he turns out to be the next Gareth Bale and we have him tied)
You're basing the opinion that O'Neill did not do enough on that article? "Had Grealish got the call up" is a 100% airy fairy argument and even if Grealish had been called up (June 2014) and capped, he would not have been tied.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
O'Neill confirmed in August 2014 "I spoke to his father, I spoke to Jack and he's a young kid coming through with a lot of potential and I think they just want to take a little bit of time."He's felt comfortable playing underage level but it's a totally different thing committing at senior level."It was a decent conversation and I think I'll just leave it at that at the moment." Nevertheless he continued to play for the u21s
The cup semi final was in April 2015.Quote:
It was only after Grealish starred in the FA Cup semi-final win over Liverpool in April that he finally realised what was on offer. By that stage, it was too late
O'Neill did everything as expected with Grealish and some.
O'Dowda is 21 years old and finished with the u21s. There is nothing new happening here with O'Neill's general approach, both situations are different
My understanding is that he was on the verge of accepting a May/June 2015 call up but did a u-turn late on, forcing O'Neill to delay the squad announcement. If that's right it'd make 2014 largely irrelevant.
I would have thought that the outcome of O'Neill's discussion with Grealish in August 2014 was very relevant to subsequent events.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
There's a Grealish thread in World Football, please use that for discussion on him
From today's press conference McCarthy and Clark not going to play tomorrow, McCarhy should feature against Belarus
Emmet Malone tweeting that he thinks Gary Rogers will be in the squad for the Dutch game having excelled in training. MON quoted as saying "brilliantly".
Cue Nigel to argue that he isn't even the best LOI keeper!
The manager has said the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
He isn't even the best LOI keeper (thought I'd get in ahead of Nigel, whoever he is).Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
ye have to be a proper LOI fan to have any credibility on that one, with a slight resentment or disdain towards the Irish team and squad - regardless of your support or not for the team, in fact if you don't support the national team*, its like a "super" like/respect level only reserved for very esteemed members.
*Similar to our GAA Brothers "I wouldn't cross the road to watch them/that/those". Oh but you find yourself here in Macedonia, all the way from Kosovo :8
Sorry i hate this multi-quote but wasn't sure how to get a reply to all as pretty much the same response. That would be a good point, but Grealish was the standout for the u21s also, and wasn't called into a big squad of players for the US trip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
The point is being missed somewhat, I am not specifically trying to debate about Grealish(tets just being used as an example here), but there seems to be a succession of calling up standout players from our 21s into these expanded squads, an early fat penguin introduction, bedding them in for the future. That wasn't the case in may/june of 2014. Its irrelevant whether or not a year or so that players mind was changed, just as irrelevant if O'Dowda goes back to England next year or the year after. We might disagree on the reasons, but for whatever reason, if it wasn't the Grealish scenario, he has adapted and changed his policy of bringing in future "potentials" from may/june 2014. This "new" policy seems to have come around since Jack grealish finally decided who he wanted to play for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
What do statisticians say about sample sizes?
I don't know but it worked well when you went into the pharmacy to ask for small condoms.
"Ah, Mr Stuttgart, did Paul send you in again?"
It's hard to see what your point is now as it has shifted, but I take it you have now dropped the erroneous opinion that O'Neill only became proactive with chasing Grealish after Grealish became a star in April 2015 and you accept that O'Neill made direct approaches to Grealish before that season had even started?Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
What O'Neill has changed is to become differently proactive with fattening out his squads to include most everybody but Stephen Ireland and has brought in a few promising younger players to "engage".
It has little to do with a sudden onset of belated proactivity due to him being inactive (until the horse had bolted) re Grealish.
Nope. Nothing has changed. He called up odowda who is in a similar situation to Grealish in 2014. We are disagreeing on the catalyst, well at least some of us are, I am not really sure what you are on about at all.
He did offer Grealish a place in a senior squad (can't remember which) and was turned down. Besides, even if he didn't, it was a couple of years ago and the current (apparent) trend is far more relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Grealish considered escaping.....Then Grealish escaped........ I don't think we can recapture him now........
Ah ! I don't think his heart was in it.
He did but the time factor is important, he didn't get called up while playing in the lower league or obscure leagues like o'dowda and/or byrne.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
What have the leagues they're playing in got to do with it?
Jack G is not in our squad, discuss it elsewhere.
We named a squad of 35, some of whom are playing Playoffs, some of whom are injured. With two friendles in the next few days, who would you start?
Me? Since you asked:
Randolph (no need for more caps for Given lol)
Christie, Keogh, O'Shea(needs a game), Ward(we need Brady further forwar)
Arter, Hendrick
McGeady(if we bring him, get him matchfit), Hoolahan, Brady
Long
Nice attacking feel about this team,with a touch of flair too!Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_denilson
Good question! It's a tricky one for O'Neill actually. On one hand, it's our last proper game in preparation for the tournament, should we be playing as close to full strength as possible? On the other hand, it's pretty much the last opportunity for guys to impress and to get some guys up to speed a little bit. Maybe a combination of both. Is Coleman unavailable, yeah? Maybe something like this?Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_denilson
Given (give him the opportunity to mess up and/or get injured, sorry, bad form - only partially serious)
Christie (presume Coleman's not available or worth risking)
Keogh (didn't play in either friendly last time/Clark unavailable)
O'Shea (indeed, needs game time)
Brady (might as well continue as we're going to go forward, I think)
Gibson (had Whelan but makes more sense to give Gibson a go)
Arter (deserves his chance)
Walters (get him back motoring for us after absence)
McGeady (game time, spare Hoolahan or give him a run in second half)
Hendrick (could do with another game also)
Murphy (chance to break his duck, Long doesn't need a game, wrap him up in cotton wool)
(Formation - anything from a 4-2-3-1 to a 4-3-2-1 to a 4-4-2 really)
I'd actually like Duffy to make the team from now on, performances depending obviously. He's probably as good, or definitely will be as good, as our other centre backs but he's an animal in the opposition's penalty box. Only Clark, to a much lesser extent, contributes in that sense. I think for a side so reliant on set pieces it could make a big difference.
Does anyone think O'Shea might struggle to play 3 games in a short space of time, and/or perhaps pick up some small injury?
I think players can make a greater impact with as little changes in positional departments Delores. It would also be more likely that if they force the hand, they would be employed in the same position with those same regulars around them. Does that make sense? For example if Arter was going to play in midfield like you suggest then you would want either McCarthy or Whelan beside.
I often think we don't really learn that much when we see many changes and one or two particular player(s) stand out. For example McGoldrick.