You'd have to imagine Newcastle and Norwich will be among the favourites for automatic promotion next season, not sure if Brighton will be in the mix again. This might have been their big chance for promotion.
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You'd have to imagine Newcastle and Norwich will be among the favourites for automatic promotion next season, not sure if Brighton will be in the mix again. This might have been their big chance for promotion.
There was a way past him. It was 1-1!Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
That's a bit disingenuous. For a start, Shay and penalties is just a dumb example.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Randolph and Stockdale are incomparable. Stockdale looked shaky right from the start of the first leg.
I agree on "making the saves you should make" point but it doesn't stop there. The body language thing is important. A team - especially a team like ours - needs a keeper with a presence and defenders need to be confident in him. It was clear last night that Westwood is 100% trusted by his teammates and owns his area. I can't say one way or the other about Randolph at West Ham but Randolph for Ireland has exuded authority. It surprised me, but it impressed me. I think he immediately brought something to our defence at home to Germany that was lacking with Shay. It's an intangible, hard to quantify thing. As an ex-keeper whose teammates used to shout "Nooooo!" when I shouted "Keeeeper's!!!" I should know.
Who do I trust more? Westwood? But I think you're overplaying the Randolph as a liability thing too. That's all.
No, you're not at all. Stockdale, as dodgy as he was over the two legs, made by far the best save of the match. You may have been too parsimonious in your praise towards that actual save alright, I thought it was really top class. I'm glad Westwood's making the headlines though, merited or otherwise. The more that helps his case for inclusion the better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Westwood did what you would expect but didn't have to pull anything out of the top drawer really, even the save late on that Geysir mentioned was pretty routine. Two dodgy kickouts as well, one he really fluffed which could have been dangerous and the other went straight out of play high up the pitch, not that it caused any harm really, just relinquished possession a bit too easily.
I agree with Geysir when he mentioned about "thriving like a pig in muck" tough. He's hyper active looking around his penalty area, always moving and keeping himself alert. I really like this about him and I think it probably helps with his reactions as he's on the go non-stop, when something happens he only has to react physically, as he's already there mentally.
I also agree with Paul's take generally, hyperbole aside as Randolph has been very good for us. I think it's vital we have our best goalkeeper between the sticks though. It's not a splitting hairs exercise, if he can manage to get a finger on one shot that Randolph or Given can't, it could (and probably will) make all the difference. It's arguably the most important position on the pitch when it comes to small margins making a massive difference, yet there will probably be more noise made about who starts in all of the other positions.
I am not sure that the shot which went under the wall was routine. He was guarding the other side of the goal and had to get down very quickly and save it. Perhaps because he reads the shots so well they are routine. Even the free kick which came off the post, Westwood was very close to it.
That's what I was referring to, or including, in my "body language" point. The way he operates - including his busy-ness -exudes positivity and confidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
And yes, Stockdale's save was brilliant and at a crucial time too. You wouldn't want to be relying on him though - I think that's the kind of point we all agree on. What a goal it would have been though. Super break, sumptuous cross, bullet header...
It was the save late on that I meant was routine, good height and close to him. Obviously his positioning helped here as well though. The one you're talking about was a decent save alright but would probably have raised questions had it gone in.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
The guy who took it was livid with himself. He scuffed it. The idea was to hit it low and crisp but he didn't catch it right, so I'd say it was a routine save. Great idea...Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
I think Westwood was beaten all ends up by the free that hit the post! Inches and fractions of seconds are everything. He reacted well - others may have just stayed rooted - but he was second favourite all the way.
There is no hyperbole. I think most, maybe not you, have looked at him from September/October last year. I've "seen" him since his debut against Oman, and the away games in the USA. I am saying it because I know what he is capable of and what he is not, as you say the small things become big things, or fine margins can make all the difference. I can attribute 4-5 goals at least where a better keeper would have more than likely saved them. I'd say westwood would have at least got 2 or 3 of those as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
I'd say they're all fair points and you could add some silly club goals too. I've said the same thing about those same games. The difference is how you present your argument (I, POS, have unique insight...) and the scale of it (his lack of agility WILL cost us, mark my words). I think it's a question of degrees. I'm happier with Randolph than I previously had been with Forde and Given. He's been good for us. Westwood would probably have been better or at least as good, but we can't know, he missed too many games.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
name these goals, and provide proof that Westwood would have saved them
I know Westwood is no Lev Yashin but he was more than just making routine saves out there, unless the standard is "routine first class goalkeeping".
I didn't think the Brighton lad scuffed that low free kick shot, he aimed into the corner, Westwood anticipated well, got down ahead of time, got a strong arm behind the ball and secured possession under pressure from a lurking Brighton player. That's first class goalkeeping, not just routine.
A routine save would be to parry the ball away and if he's lucky out of danger.
For the last save, routine would be to come way of his line and the ball struck straight at him, he would have been applauded for "making his body big" .)
As it was, he had to dive to his right, a fractions early instinctive save to firmly block a bullet with both his arms.
I thought it was a joy to behold when he bulldozed everything in sight out of his way as he managed to retain possession late on against all the odds.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
I've not watched it and I've no idea what the save was like, but I agree with you :DQuote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I don't need to have seen the video to know that it was obviously more than just a routine save.
Considering Randolph has only conceded six goals for Ireland I'd say it's more or less all of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I had thought it was any goal he conceded since his debut, club or internationalQuote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Ah, maybe.
I wonder how long it will take Dumbfy to discover how good of form Westwood is in if Randolph /Given makes a mistake:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Brilliant effort from Derby tonight, some contrast to Saturday. Guts and bottle in abundance but unfortunately just left themselves with too much to do. They can't have any complaints after the shambles at the weekend but some pride restored at least.
Bradley Johnson and Ince were dropped for Hendrick and Weimann and the changes really worked a treat. Hendrick actually played the holding midfield role, allowing Hughes to motor further forward. Those two and Johnny Russell were the pick of the bunch I thought, lovely intricate passing movements all night. It was a really mature performance from Hendrick and he showed no signs of not having played a proper match for a few weeks. He was far more suited to the role than Hughes was on Saturday, who was a little bit lightweight for the position.
Christie was instrumental in Derby's opening goal, a powerful run down the right before whipping in a decent cross that Martin kept alive and Russell bundled in at the second attempt. Keogh had an easy enough night, no major pressure applied by Hull for the majority of the game but he carried the ball out of defence well.
Meyler came on for Hull and used his experience to slow down the game, buying a free kick or two and generally adding a bit of composure to their play.
Ideal scenario reHendrick, in short term at least. Sharp and effective, and available for Ireland from right now.
Hendrick was immense. Some performance considering he's been injured and had practically no gametime to get back.
I'm not convinced a guy whose relationship with the management could generously be described as ambigious, has a realistic claim to the number one jersey, appears fairly blase about international football and already travelled to a major tournament as a back-up is going to be all that bothered about hitting crosses for two others guys to catch when he could potentially be resting up before a Premier League season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I don't mean to impinge Westwood's commitment by saying he's blase, I just mean it strikes me that he's decided he'll do his talking on the pitch and if he's picked, grand, and if not - c'est la vie.
I also think he'd be realistic enough to know that if he's taken along, he's very unlikely to get any gametime since he's not been involved at all and won't be around for the Holland game.
I think MON has made it clear the #1 spot is up for grabs by dropping Forde, bringing in Randolph ahead of him when Given got injured, then giving Elliot an audition against Slovakia. Should be enough incentive for Westwood I think.
Last night just shows how much of football is played in the head. Hull thought the tie was done and dusted as did their fans. None of the intensity of Brighton or their fans the night before. Derby had to go for it and caught them on the back foot and played them off the park in the first half as did Brighton to Wednesday the night before. It reminded me of Ireland's visit to Paris where France were 1-0 from the first leg. They thought they just had to turn up to qualify. The team behind in the 2nd leg plays with intensity while the other one tries to sit on the lead. Once lost, initiative is hard to regain. As in Brighton, it was hard to keep that intensity going in the second half and I was pleased as I think Derby have better players than Hull. Sorry for the Irish of course. Christie was excellent. Even Meyler got on the ball (after a while) when he was brought on as a sub to stem the Derby tide.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Ya you have got to wonder how good Derby really were, versus how much Hull were willing to do anything other than Sit on their lead.
And you can't say a holding midfielder was excellent in that kind of game where he was never going to be under the intense pressure of a team chasing a lead.
Hendrick was outstanding. It was his willingness to get on the ball, start and join in on attacks that was so impressive. He was the key component in their midfield that kept everything moving quickly and efficiently. His passing was so precise in tight areas, consistently forcing his team forward and into good attacking positions, it wasn't just the lateral stuff we see so much of these days. It was very little to do with the other holding midfielder tasks such as breaking up play or getting tackles in, even though he did that effectively when needed also. Did you even see it?
And Derby already won 2-0 at Hull this season, with two first half goals as well that night incidentally, as well as beating them 4-0 at the iPro, so I think it's safe to say that this was a more accurate representation of what they're capable of than their performance on Saturday.
No I didn't see it, but hasn't Stutts proven already you don't need to see something to comment on it.
I didn't comment on how he played, just that its hard to imagine a holding midfielder doing excellent when "its" core duties are under pressure from the opposing team in his half to get that extra bit of time, make space, break out of defence, make tackles, break up play, keep a clear line from the opposition.
But none of what you described above, is anything that I would see as a holding midfielder :) Sounds more like he was a roaving/roamin midfielder, attacking just lying further back than the other midfielder.
He was the designated holding midfielder. I lost count of the times he took the ball off Keogh and got things going from there. His midfield colleagues, Hughes and Bryson, were always stationed further forward. When Derby were in possession he moved up the pitch, but always in front of the play. He didn't make overlapping runs or get himself into the box anywhere nearly as much as he normally would, as it was clear that he was aware of his defensive responsibilities should Hull break.
And the fact that you didn't even see it might just make you the biggest hypocrite in the world. ;)
No Delorean, I never commented on him though or how he played, I agree completely I couldn't comment on his performance because I didnt see it. But what I expect of a holding midfielder might be different to what you do. I see it more as a deep lying playmaker by the sounds of it.
Either way wherever he was meant to be playing or whatever "position" he was in, it sounds like he had a positive impact from the attacking side of things, that can only be a good thing.
He was selected in the holding midfield role, just as Will Hughes was on Saturday. It's usually George Thorne's position but he broke his leg in the final game of the regular season. Obviously every game is different and the player in that position is going to react to the flow of the game. They can become a deep lying playmaker as you say or a even more orthodox midfielder.
Just because Mascherano starts attacks for Argentina doesn't make him more of a deep lying playmaker and just because Pirlo breaks up play sometimes doesn't making him more of a holding midfielder. It's not as if Hull didn't have any attacks on the night, they didn't spend the whole game in their own penalty box.
To be honest this is a crazy statement without having seen the match. You have no idea whatsoever how the game ebbed and flowed. It could also be argued that because Derby were the dominant side, chasing the game, it made their need for a good performance from their holding midfielder even more important, given Hull's biggest potential thread would have been hitting Derby on the break.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
In short, Hendrick sat in front of the centre backs when Hull has possession, this was obviously his primary function on the night, but as the game developed he saw more and more of the ball and was able to contribute in other areas also.
Did he play well? :)
How could he possibly play well? he was playing as a holding midfielder... keep up. :D
Pirlo may have shuffled about a bit when out of procession but to call this breaking up play might be a bit of a stretch:DQuote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
I've never seen Pirlo break up play :8
Whatever position he played sounds like played well, for someone out of position ;-) Only joking.
We have completely different understandings of the term, I am happy to move on Delores :)
Sure you know, you didnt even see him play. ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Fans call (apparently) for Westwood to be named in squad for the Euros http://www.newstalk.com/Fans-call-fo...uro-2016-squad but the writer is a bit silent on the source of his information (other than the few comments under the article).
Central African Nation suffering severe drought calls for more rainfall.
So Westwood and Forde will both miss the Netherlands friendly
Sky Bet Championship Final 28 May
Sheff Wed: Westwood (should start), McGeady(unlikely)
Hull: Meyler (50/50), Lenihan (unlikely)
Sky Bet League One Final 29 May
Barnsley: Hourihane (should start), White (likely sub)
Millwall: O'Brien (likely sub), Williams (likely sub), Forde (likely sub)
Sky Bet League Two Final 30 May
Plymouth: McHugh (should start), Carey (should start)
Wimbledon: Smith (likely sub), Murphy (likely sub), Sweeney (likely sub), Shea (likely sub)
I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say here. While I prefer Westwood over Randolph, it's a gross exaggeration to say it's a crisis. Furthermore, central Africa has a tropical, non-arid climate. Rainfall is totally reliable there :)Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Hourihane is lifting his second trophy of the season at Wembley as Barnsley beat Millwall 3-1 to secure their place in the Championship next season. He assisted their third goal from a corner, which Forde's nemesis Archer made a bit of a balls of. Their second goal was quite similar to Diame's winner yesterday actually, the goalkeeper got nowhere near it this time though. Hourihane also credited with an assist for that. O'Brien and Williams made it off the bench for Millwall, Forde and White stayed on their respective benches.