It was hardly reckless either. It was a contest for a ball that was there to be won.
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It was hardly reckless either. It was a contest for a ball that was there to be won.
Ehhh no. He's the manager of my team so I'm stuck with him whether I like it or not (I don't). It was said in resignation rather than conciliation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
I don't agree, I don't think he was getting there and what's more he has a full view of man and ball, whereas McBride can only really see the ball (since he's side on to Hoban). The Dundalk man has a fuller view, has time to make up his mind and charges in. He was late. He knocked the player out. That's reckless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Challenges for the ball are well and good, but there's duty of care too. Plenty of people have done serious damage just by going for the ball. I take it case-by-case and, in this one, I think Hoban could've used better judgement.
I take your point that McBride was unsighted but Hoban was fully entitled to believe he could win the ball, in which case he'd have been the one taking the impact of another player's head. It was an accident that could have been avoided, but you could only avoid it by not having players challenge for the ball.
A very fair question indeed. My gripe isn't so much with whether or not he should have been booked or sent off, but with the reaction of some Derry fans over an accidental clash of heads.Quote:
Originally Posted by A N Mouse
On your question however, I think it would have been very harsh to award a yellow card to Hoban for challenging for a 50/50 ball, whether he, or McBride, were more sighted than the other. If the ball is there to be won, Hoban had every right to challenge for it.
It's a very unfortunate clash of heads. If McBride had got up and hadn't been injured in the way he was, would there be as much uproar?
As White Horse and others have articulated already, it is Roddy's accusations which have created most of the uproar.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
I don't believe it was a deliberate headbutt, or a "doing" ("done-ing"?) as Roddy might call it - Hoban was clearly left in pain himself by the clash - but I do see how it could have been deemed reckless, or careless at the very least, so as to warrant a booking. Hoban was the more excessive of the two in attacking the ball with velocity behind him, whilst McBride was protecting a defensive position. Importantly, McBride actually won the ball, clearing it in the process, whilst Hoban got McBride's head and McBride's head only. Just because a clash might be a contest with the ball there to be won doesn't mean a foul cannot be the end result. If the ball was on the ground and one player carelessly took out his opposite in a 50-50 without making contact with the ball, he'd expect a booking. The over-the-top accusatory reactions are out of order, mind, but hasn't Roddy always been a mouth whose opinions are best ignored? It's unfortunate some seem keen to imitate him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Sure, but that right doesn't negate the possibility of him fouling McBride in the process of challenging for it. There is a right to challenge, but with that right also comes a duty of care.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
That's not what happened though. Would McBride have been injured the way he was had the clash not occurred in the manner it did? If McBride had been able to get up in the imagined scenario, it would have been because the challenge had been less careless and less excessive than the one that had actually occurred. McBride was injured due to the very nature of how Hoban attacked (and completely missed) the ball, so of course there wouldn't have been the same reaction had the imagined scenario arisen with McBride coming out unscathed as a result of a much less reckless clash.Quote:
It's a very unfortunate clash of heads. If McBride had got up and hadn't been injured in the way he was, would there be as much uproar?
Just because he's entitled to go for it, doesn't mean he should particularly after sprinting to get up with a player who is already in the air (and well ahead of him) and so going in at high speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Hoban could've challenged for the ball, and pressed McBride, without charging in late. It shouldn't be reduced to a argument over whether players should challenge or not. All I'm saying is Hoban could, and should, have been more responsible.
I don't hold it against him - players do it all the time - but he should be called on it and I'd like to think he'll think harder next time.
I'm sure he will be a bit more cautious in future but I think it was much more of a 50/50 than you think it was. It just looks worse because Hoban is attacking the ball and McBride is stretching.
Went back for another watch to make sure, but I don't think McBride is stretching at all. My take is he's ran towards the ball, gotten underneath it and almost jumped from a standing start. Whereas Hoban is running in towards the ball. This gives him a chance - maybe he thinks with a running start he'll be able to outleap McBride - but really it was very unlikely he was going to beat him to the ball. Either way McBride's almost underneath when he jumps, and he simply puts his head out to make contact with the ball - don't see that as stretching, as if he has to strain to make it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
We'll have to agree to disagree, it's not a million miles off 50-50 to be fair but McBride's a definite favourite and with Hoban getting a run at the leap, and able to see the opposition player, he should've taken care to minimise the chances of a nasty aerial collision. He didn't and that's what happened imo.
I think the ball took an awkward bounce. It looks to me like Hoban is about to win the header easily at first.
Stretching is probably the wrong word, but he's putting in a defensive header with no run into the ball, whereas Hoban is attacking it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Hoban didn't set out to "do" him, but it was reckless and deserved a second yellow IMO. Just my two cents.
Same here. If he was that late with a slide tackle he would have been booked. Don't see why it would be any different because he was going for a header.Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
So, do we all agree that Roddy Collins was wrong to accuse Hoban of deliberately trying to cause injury to Ryan McBride?
Should Collins withdraw the accusation and apologise?
I cant believe we are still talking about this, it was very unfortunate what happened McBride, but anyone can see from the footage that it was two players attempting to win the ball, what happened was purely accidental.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nah Nah Nah Nah
Put it another way, if Hoban had been floored in the same challenge, would McBride have deserved a card ? No, as it would still be deemed accidental.
And yes Collins should retract his comments, but he probably wont. He made those to deflect from a very poor display where they were comprehensively beaten.
Yes, he should make a full public apology or be issued with a hefty fine and possible sideline ban. Don't think Derry should face any punishment as it seem its only Collins who believed it was intentionalQuote:
Originally Posted by White Horse
No fan of Roddy, but that would be a very dangerous precedent!
Why he has made a idiotic public comment accusing a player of intentionally going out to hurt another player, when the vast majority of people who have seen the incident say it was clearly un-intentional. Its a slanderous statementQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Why dangerous?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
I presume that Neish meant he should be charged under FAI regulations and if found guilty issued with a fine.
In any cases Managers being charged as a consequence of their comments is not at all unusual. In this case his comments go beyond the normal "disparaging" rule term.
In any event it would be a positive move, as it could deter people who have little regard for normal laws of defamation.
Roddy definitely could have used a less accusatory tone, but (and I can't believe I'm about to say this) the more I think about it the more I come round to his line of reasoning.Quote:
Originally Posted by White Horse
Hoban has charged into a player who's already in the air, and not won the ball. Even if he had won it it's probably a foul.
It's not a fifty fifty, I give you McBride is slight favourite and we'll call it reckless.
Depending on your view of it if we get much beyond 60/40 then (having done a few 180s after being barged with both feet less than a foot off the ground) we're getting into cowardly territory. Obviously Roddy strongly felt McBride was favourite.
Roddy's a muppet, we're all agreed. Now, can we get some kind of acknowledgement that perhaps Hoban was fortunate to stay on the pitch?
Look at the video again. How long after McBride jumped did Hoban jump? Maybe 0.2-0.3 of a second? Do players have to jump at the exact same time to be classified as a 50/50 ball?Quote:
Originally Posted by A N Mouse
Perhaps he was fortunate! I still see it that the ball was contestable and both players did so. Hoban had greater speed and momentum going in to the challange which could have gotten him above McBride he didnt and caught the player. I agree that if the same set of circumstances were applied to a challange on the ground it would probably have had at least resulted in a free out. If both player got up and walked away this incident would be forgotten. The injury was serious but Roddy has done himself few favours with both Dundalk fans, who generally dont have an natural born hatred of the guy prior, and Derry fans who have seen the comments for what they are - a poor and patronising attempt to take attention away from the result.
I think any sensible being will agree it wasn't a deliberate assualt. The issue is whether or not it was a careless foul. I think it probably was on the basis that Hoban didn't win the ball and, through recklessness rather than intent, took McBride out.Quote:
Originally Posted by White Horse
Not sure about Neish's suggestion that managers should potentially be gagged and fined by the FAI - that's another debate - but if Roddy had a sense of decency, he probably would and should. That's unlikely, however, so is there any point in harping on about expecting Roddy to retract what was a silly and over-the-top accusation? He's a chronic attention-seeker who likes to stir ****.Quote:
Should Collins withdraw the accusation and apologise?
You seem to misunderstand the laws of the game. Conduct, be it reckless or whatever, need not be intentional for it to be deemed a foul. If a player accidentally takes out another player through carelessness, recklessness or excessive force, that's still a foul. Hoban also ended up on the floor from the clash, but the crucial factor is that McBride actually won the ball in the challenge. Hoban made no contact with the ball. He had a right to challenge, certainly, but that doesn't give him a right to foul his opponent. He still had to win the ball. He didn't and took out McBride. That's a foul and probably warranted a booking.Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
Wow!Quote:
Originally Posted by A N Mouse
What Roddy said was the problem not his tone!
'Roddys line of reasoning' Are you serious?
Roddy accused Hoban of intentionally hurting McBride.
To top off your incredible post, you have the cheek to call Roddy a muppet!
Looking at it again, McBride hits the ground very heavily and cracks his head on the pitch which may have been the cause of the severity of the injury rather than the clash of heads, bad pitch!
I'm just surprised that a League of Ireland ref missed an opportunity to show a red card. They usually can't wait to send people off.
The thing is that managers or players don't usually pay their fines- the club does. So a club's manager goes off on one after a game- in this case where he may genuinely feel one of his players was hurt through malice/recklessness (even if very few others do) and the club ends up with a big bill. I think the best thing to do with Roddy is ignore him.
If he watched the incident back on video he should of realised it was non intentional and then apoligised for his remarks. The fact that clubs often pay these fine is up to the club and this reason should no excuse such actions. If he is alouded to get away with it other managers players may think they can tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
We're lucky Roddy wasn't at our game on Friday, he'd be asking for the death penalty for Stephen McPhail after he kicked Greg Bolger in the face.
Would have loved to see that. Bolger is a grade A wa**er who would have no problem injuring another playerQuote:
Originally Posted by PartySaint
You would have loved to have seen someone get kicked in the face? Good man.
Appalling nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by dundalkfc10
Greg Bolger is a excellent player with a strong competitive approach. He is also a decent, personable individual off the pitch.
He still shouldn't have been playing on Friday after getting a straight red for violent play.
He missed that Bray game, himself and Brennan have both got an extra game ban for their reds against Dundalk and will miss our game against Bohs on Friday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Pretty harsh on Brennan, mouthing off to the referree gets the same punishment as the attempted amputation of a players leg.Quote:
Originally Posted by PartySaint
A straight red for dangerous play should be an automatic three games.Quote:
Originally Posted by PartySaint
I agree, Luke Byrne should get a 5 game ban for his disgusting tackle on Conan Byrne ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I would expect that red card to be rescinded.Quote:
Originally Posted by PartySaint
The ball could have been seriously injured. 10 game minimum.Quote:
Originally Posted by PartySaint