Poland V Republic of Ireland - Tuesday, 19th November 2013 - Friendly - Poznań

Another nothing game.
The next 10 months are going to be painful, but hopefully we'll be prepared come the autumn.

It's a long wait alright. The draw is made in late February.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I dont think we all thought that of green.since the Slovakia game when he went off injured on27 mins a few of us(geysir) pointed out how well he was doing up to the point and ever since he has done well decently when called upon.

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I believe I pointed that out too but I think tonight he showed he can pass as well as get stuck in and win ball. He was certainly my Man of the match tonight.

I'd be the first to say that if PG can win the motm, then we are in a poor shape.
Trap did work a miracle.

At least we can all root on France in the WC.

:confused:

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I've seen a lot of poor halves from Irish teams over the past decade, and that was undoubtedly one of them, but I've seen far worse, especially away from home. For the most part, we completely nullified them in midfield - Blaszczkowski made some inroads, as he will because he's a wonderful player, but they were largely ineffective. Without wishing to excuse it, I think a few players were happy just to keep fit so they can go back to their clubs and challenge for a place.

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I agree on why it happened (players winding down) but Poland were poor yet they played all the football in the second half. If they had a decent player beyond their main two, they'd have created a bit more. Forde didn't even have to make a save even though they were totally battering us for periods. Don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly upset and I don't read much into it - but in 45 minutes we couldn't put two passes together against an understrength, undercooked, unconfident Poland team. The only conclusion, as we already know, is there's a long road ahead. Still looking forward to it though.

When it comes to bad friendlies it's a bit splitting hairs over which are worse - so we can probably agree it was bad and have done with it.

I was a bit disappointed in the selection. I just don't like Walters RHM, even though I think he did well enough.

Forde looked as composed as ever. Kicking from the ground a bit suspect, but that was a dreadful pitch - which matters for a keeper.

I thought Wilson and SSL looked decent at CB. I genuinely think we have no worries in that department. I love how SSL, without any club action, just slots in well any time he is asked. Kelly did fine.

I thought ward had his best game for us, he looks reborn, just like McGeady. Green was better than his club status would suggest. I hope people finally give him credit.

McCarthy is maturing and taking charge more, but still has more in his locker.

Long was decent enough, not great but not bad.

Stokes struggled I thought and he sends the fear of God into me when he drops deep for the ball.

As a team I thought we were cohesive and "modern" for about 55 minutes. There was a passage of play on 28/29 minutes that was as accomplished a passing phase as I have ever seen in an Irish team. It was clear that sending it long was to be added to the mix, but was cleraly not the only tactic. They were allowed to mix it, and that's fine by me.

The last 30 mins or so was Trap era away football all over again though. Midfield stopped showing for it and when under pressure we kept sending it long again.

Set pieces were good.

So, overall: decent enough but work still to do. We need to create more chances from open play.

I fear Forde is a potential liability. He's a disaster with ball to feet. You might get away with that on night's like last night but in high pressure games it could do serious damage to the composure of our defence. I know the pitch was cat but he's the same on decent surfaces. Westwood all day every day if fit.

Green and McCarthy replicated their Stockholm performance and is clearly a better partnership than Whelan/McCarthy. Totally disagree with Geysir regards Green, he has put in consistently decent performances for us and is better than his Championship status in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by geysir

I'd be the first to say that if PG can win the motm, then we are in a poor shape.
Trap did work a miracle.

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Think thats unfair geysir.



Green has played very well for us this year and deserves due recognition - his introduction against poland in dublin in february , IMO changed the game for us , a game which up until his intro in the second half, poland were completely dominating and playing through our midfield.

He was excellent against Austria away also as well as sweden away (as mentioned by delorean above) and was our best player on the pitch last nite imo.

Whereas Green may not be the most skilful player in the squad - his effort and graft go along way and in his assigned role , he has done well for us.

IMO he is there on merit and deserves his place in the squad

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Originally Posted by back of the net

Think thats unfair geysir.



Green has played very well for us this year and deserves due recognition - his introduction against poland in dublin in february , IMO changed the game for us , a game which up until his intro in the second half, poland were completely dominating and playing through our midfield.

He was excellent against Austria away also as well as sweden away (as mentioned by delorean above) and was our best player on the pitch last nite imo.

Whereas Green may not be the most skilful player in the squad - his effort and graft go along way and in his assigned role , he has done well for us.

IMO he is there on merit and deserves his place in the squad

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I agree with you on all that, but when the player with the graft keeps getting the motm I think it spells trouble, it means other players didn't stand up or stand out enough and the other more skilful players did not impress enough. The players we need to stand out are other players than Green, if we are to impress ourselves against better teams than Poland.

I see the game is up and available for download on Sharingirish.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

I fear Forde is a potential liability. He's a disaster with ball to feet. You might get away with that on night's like last night but in high pressure games it could do serious damage to the composure of our defence. I know the pitch was cat but he's the same on decent surfaces. Westwood all day every day if fit.

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Forde has issues with ball at feet, no doubt. Always has, always will - just isn't comfortable. That's partly why he's always so methodical when kicking or collecting the ball. His focus in possession is absolute. I like that he recognises and tries to combat it.

Westwood doesn't bring as much comfort to the backline or take pressure off defenders. On current evidence they're both decent shot stoppers. I think the likelihood of either making a clanger is about the same. Forde has the jersey, and I think that's fair.

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Originally Posted by geysir

I agree with you on all that, but when the player with the graft keeps getting the motm I think it spells trouble, it means other players didn't stand up or stand out enough and the other more skilful players did not impress enough. The players we need to stand out are other players than Green, if we are to impress ourselves against better teams than Poland.

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Ah - i see what you mean.

But , with sole reference to 2013 ,the opposition that Green and Ireland has come up against with Green playing well have been Sweden, Poland (twice) and Austria.

Now whereas these teams may not match the Germanys/Spains of this world, they are decent teams who are going to cause problems for the opposing teams no matter who they are playing

How many times have you seen roy keane , Viera etc etc get MOTM awards at club level - does this mean they had bad players around them? Albeit i do accept MOTM awards were distributed more evenly amongst other positions within their teams...but i hope you know what im getting at.

But in saying that, i dont think Greens MOTM awards necessarily mean we have poor quality players around him - imo it just means that we have played decent attacking teams and Green has done his job very well.... nothing more than that


Just to add - alot of the reason in those games , that Green was called upon so much was down to traps defensive , give the ball away tactics rather than our players which is always going to require a player in greens position to be utilised more than others

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Westwood doesn't bring as much comfort to the backline or take pressure off defenders. On current evidence they're both decent shot stoppers. I think the likelihood of either making a clanger is about the same.

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If I was a defender I would be far more comfortable knowing I can play the ball back to my keeper without there being panic stations. Westwood is every bit a good a shot stopper and more than adequate with crosses, though I accept this is Forde's major strength.

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Forde has the jersey, and I think that's fair.

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Did MON say something to indicate this? I was under the impression that it was a level playing field, that's why he gave them a game each.

I think it was telling that Westwood was given the easier game though. Forde still has it for me.

On the lighter side, Eamon Dunphy was forced to have a dark wedding many moons ago:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-29763206.html

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

I fear Forde is a potential liability.

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i keep hearing this but in 15 games how many goals were his fault?

Brian Kerr was encouraged by the display: http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/socc...team-1.1600456

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Originally Posted by Brian Kerr

Encouraging display emphasises the options available to new managerial team: This looked like a proper Republic of Ireland side sent out by people who know what Irish football is about

So, plenty of valuable information banked by the new manager about his players, the backroom staff and his relationship with Roy.

This felt like a Republic of Ireland team sent out by a man who understands Irish football. Who understands what we are about. Because he is one of us – just like his assistant.

By the end, the Poles were in command, chasing a home victory and we needed the Irish substitutes to gel and get a hold of the game. That always happens in friendly matches.

Strong and clever touches from Glenn Whelan and James McClean got the team out of danger. John O’Shea also came in and emphasised his importance to Ireland in the upcoming European Championship qualifiers.

Nil-all in Poznan was an improvement on our last visit to this stadium. The passing statistics certainly improved.

It was obvious from the kick-off that this would be a vastly different second outing for the new regime than last Friday’s stroll.

Front four

Martin O’Neill did the expected and changed from the smaller front four used against Latvia with Shane Long, Jonathan Walters and Anthony Stokes bringing muscle to the attack. Walters came in off the right with Long as the lone striker while Stokes dropped deeper.

The initial shape was encouraging. In particular, it was worth looking at Stokes as a semi-striker. This was a big game for the Celtic man in that important role as we will probably use 4-4-1-1 for most away matches, I would suggest.

I would have preferred to see him get closer to Long. Nor was I overly impressed with his attitude when possession was lost – no point standing still for a few seconds, glaring at teammates – but he improved in the second half and did enough to merit another opportunity.

Wes Hoolahan got more joy in the same position against Latvia but that’s an unfair comparison because they were so poor.

The message conveyed to Stokes and many others as they go back to their clubs tomorrow is week to week form will keep them in the picture. That’s all a player wants to know really. Play well, get picked. God, it has taken us an age to get to that juncture. We already knew Long can play the lone striker role. He wasn’t sensational, and missed a chance on 65 minutes, but showed for every ball.

Protect players

The raft of changes was as much to protect players like Marc Wilson, who took a knock, and James McCarthy, who was replaced on the hour. James McClean gave Aiden McGeady a well-deserved break. It seems McGeady will have a freer role in O’Neill’s team. He started on the left but the less rigid system allowed him drift onto the ball and more importantly into the box. O’Neill knows better than most how deadly he can be when allowed to seek space to isolate a defender.

McGeady was also in charge of the free kicks. Such responsibility will eventually be repaid. An ideal test really, as Paul Green and McCarthy sought to play football but Poland pressed onto them to disrupt any rhythm. That’s how it will be against any major football nation.

There is still a need for a better midfielder, like Darron Gibson, to be in there alongside McCarthy.
Poland were never going to make it easy to work it into McCarthy’s feet. That’s why it’s important to have bigger front men, who can win messy route one ball and bring the midfield into the attack. And ensure we are not constantly manning the pump.

It could mean the use of Robbie Keane in away games will be restricted to a second-half sub or when we need a goal. That remains the big conundrum.

My wandering eye couldn’t help taking in the Irish dugout. Roy Keane had a few choice words with Stokes for wasteful play and was keeping tabs on McCarthy. Of course, Roy knows better than most how important it is for McCarthy to be the dominant figure in every game.

By the end both O’Neill and Keane were on the line cajoling that extra per cent from tiring legs.

A lively, interesting opening 45 minutes went by in a flash. I haven’t said that about an international friendly in many a year. We looked the better team without being genuinely creative. McCarthy and Green sought to play through the middle but the Polish energy and bumpy pitch made it tough.

Good night

The only shame was Sean St Ledger’s injury. He fit snugly into the defence and if he stays fit there are suddenly five real options at centre back. I think it is about who can be the best partner for O’Shea. Maybe it is the veteran defender motivating himself but the arrival of O’Neill, his manager at Sunderland, and Keane, a former team-mate for club and country has helped.

They both know him well.

Stephen Ward also had a good night, along with Stephen Kelly. Seamus Coleman owns the right back shirt but Ward and Kelly are others going back to their clubs knowing they are rated members of the squad.

That’s a huge incentive for so many players after tonight.

Now our new and dynamic duo can go on the tour of UK clubs, chart form and plot the next step. The era of sitting and waiting at home for a view of players has passed at last.

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

On the lighter side, Eamon Dunphy was forced to have a dark wedding many moons ago:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-29763206.html

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And the connection between Dunphy's "dark wedding" to last night's friendly is what exactly?... :confused: I'm pretty sure there are other threads where your curious interjections would be less outlandish. You're truly the enigma of Foot.ie.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

No DI I thought he meant wins from home against decent opposition then qualified it somewhat.

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Can't recall the exact words of his entire spiel, but he just came across as digging himself an ever-deepening hole before attempting to clutch at straws once he realised Fleming wasn't going to drag him out.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Fleming is a very impressive pundit, for the record. With all due respect to Setanta, I think he could get a bigger job. Maybe he doesn't have the right accent.

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I wasn't being critical of Fleming at all. Uncertain hesitancy was an appropriate response. It might even have been polite silence. What's the main chap called again?

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

The Irish players should have walked into the stadium backwards, the Poles would have thought we were leaving and it would have been an advantage.

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That trick didn't work last time, unfortunately:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NknMiDBEic

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

It's a long wait alright. The draw is made in late February.

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Thankfully, it's only 28 days this coming year. Anything to reassure the mind and help make the wait easier! :p

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

i keep hearing this but in 15 games how many goals were his fault?

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That's why the liability is still potential. :p

I kind of hear what DeLorean is saying. I share similar doubts - I fear Forde is jittery - but, thankfully, he's never proven me right in his appearances for Ireland, so the number one jersey is deservedly his. Westwood strikes me as a bit more composed all-round, but I think my judgment might be primarily rooted in comparing their physiques and goalmouth demeanours rather than their strict goalkeeping abilities. Forde is a good shot-stopper and also has undeniable aerial ability, even if I do often lose a nail by the time he jumps to collect a cross before crashing to the ground agian!

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Forde has issues with ball at feet, no doubt. Always has, always will - just isn't comfortable. That's partly why he's always so methodical when kicking or collecting the ball. His focus in possession is absolute. I like that he recognises and tries to combat it.

Westwood doesn't bring as much comfort to the backline or take pressure off defenders. On current evidence they're both decent shot stoppers. I think the likelihood of either making a clanger is about the same. Forde has the jersey, and I think that's fair.

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2 hours once a week and 3 weeks of the summer at 33 he should have eradicated this. Place out markers to him, roll the ball back fast and aim for the markers. I cannot understand for the life of me even if he played LOI very long that he can't master this. IT is not an innate ability, its a learned skill.

On the bright side, like many Irish, Forde may never fulfill his potential.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

i keep hearing this but in 15 games how many goals were his fault?

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Not directly his fault but the 2nd sweden goal he should have done a lot lot better.

A draw in an away game. The Trap era continues.

No Robbie, no goals and the home keeper didn't have one save to make.

Rejuvination of McGeady - way too soon to say that as his crosses were still poor. One swallow does not make a Summer. Seems to be all the trend of the media comments.

Paul Dempsey was almost having an orgasm every time an Irish player closed down the opposition which apparently was unheard of under Trap despite Robbie putting pressure on a centre back and scoring against Slovakia from his weak back-pass.

Good news from that game was we didn't lose and Wilson did the business at centre-half. McCarthy continues to grow in the team.
Bad news - none really except we didn't look like scoring and Walters is not a winger.

Otherwise a game to filed away in the statistics locker.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Not directly his fault but the 2nd sweden goal he should have done a lot lot better.

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really?
clutching at straws to prove your early prediction that he would be an accident waiting to happen.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I was a bit disappointed in the selection. I just don't like Walters RHM, even though I think he did well enough.

Forde looked as composed as ever. Kicking from the ground a bit suspect, but that was a dreadful pitch - which matters for a keeper.

I thought Wilson and SSL looked decent at CB. I genuinely think we have no worries in that department. I love how SSL, without any club action, just slots in well any time he is asked. Kelly did fine.

I thought ward had his best game for us, he looks reborn, just like McGeady. Green was better than his club status would suggest. I hope people finally give him credit.

McCarthy is maturing and taking charge more, but still has more in his locker.

Long was decent enough, not great but not bad.

Stokes struggled I thought and he sends the fear of God into me when he drops deep for the ball.

As a team I thought we were cohesive and "modern" for about 55 minutes. There was a passage of play on 28/29 minutes that was as accomplished a passing phase as I have ever seen in an Irish team. It was clear that sending it long was to be added to the mix, but was cleraly not the only tactic. They were allowed to mix it, and that's fine by me.

The last 30 mins or so was Trap era away football all over again though. Midfield stopped showing for it and when under pressure we kept sending it long again.

Set pieces were good.

So, overall: decent enough but work still to do. We need to create more chances from open play.

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Some good points there, I thought the back four were all over the place for the final 10 or so mins after St Ledger went off.

OShea was lucky to stay on the pitch after his Henry impression.

Early days, but it's looking like OShea at CB with any one of four for the other CB place.

Euro 2016 is the target so let's back whoever plays.

COYBIG

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

really?
clutching at straws to prove your early prediction that he would be an accident waiting to happen.

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No, infact looking back i think he probably could have done a bit better on a few other occassions as well.

Its like the Trap thing, ye all lay in the bunkers with helmets on as if nothing was wrong and waited for the inevitable. And because you still might not have registered that, that his approach was going to lead to us getting tonked and it happened.

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Paul Dempsey was almost having an orgasm every time an Irish player closed down the opposition which apparently was unheard of under Trap despite Robbie putting pressure on a centre back and scoring against Slovakia from his weak back-pass

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Don't you mean Macedonia?

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Its like the Trap thing, ye all lay in the bunkers with helmets on as if nothing was wrong and waited for the inevitable. And because you still might not have registered that, that his approach was going to lead to us getting tonked and it happened.

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We shall exalt the Oracle of All Wisdom! :p

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Its like the Trap thing, ye all lay in the bunkers with helmets on as if nothing was wrong and waited for the inevitable. And because you still might not have registered that, that his approach was going to lead to us getting tonked and it happened.

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In fairness Paul - i recall quite alot of posters on Foot been less than happy about trap and his tactical methods and player selection and this was before the euros and that the same posters were calling for a change in his style of play or otherwise it would ultimately lead to a unhappy ending for our team

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Originally Posted by back of the net

In fairness Paul - i recall quite alot of posters on Foot been less than happy about trap and his tactical methods and player selection

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They were only copying Paul.

It wasn't much of a game to watch fully the day after and knowing it was a scoreless affair. We had a very disjointed set up. At times it looked 4-3-3, other times I couldn't see who was the designated player to receive the ball in the Polish half, it was a free for all. Amongst the positives was a readiness amongst the players to support each other and when a mistake was made or a player getting boxed in, more often than not there was support available.
Apart from Hoolahan and Reid we don't have much on the football technique side. McCarthy can just about get on the front foot but is more direct with his distribution. Reid and Hoolahan are both in the twilight zone and will not always be injury free. That leaves us waiting for Gibson to return. Playing the ball out of our box, passing it on the ground is still a difficult concept when there is some pressing from the opposition.
When McClean sent that ball across the goalmouth, anybody think it was tailor made for Robbie who might have anticipated the whole move and tapped the ball in?

It won't take a brain surgeon of a coach to figure out that Forde's distribution of the ball under pressure is haphazard and every team we play will be under instructions to put him under maximum pressure. His distribution has been poor since his first cap at Lansdowne (against Poland?) where he had to show just how good of a goalie he was to save the situation.
If he's better than Westwood, then fair enough and I suppose the decision would depend a lot on McDonagh's advice who knows about these things.

Whilst Poland are almost as far down in the ranking as us, teams such as England Portugal Greece and Russia could only manage a draw there in the last two years and they beat Denmark.
So a decent result in that respect, OK we didn't look too great second half but then they never really looked like scoring.
A good exercise in looking at number of players to see what they can't do as well as what the can not do.

Latest blog on the first two games here is anyone's interested.

http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/201...evolution.html

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

We shall exalt the Oracle of All Wisdom! :p

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Yes ask geysir for your opinion from now on :P

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

A draw in an away game. The Trap era continues.

No Robbie, no goals and the home keeper didn't have one save to make.

Rejuvination of McGeady - way too soon to say that as his crosses were still poor. One swallow does not make a Summer. Seems to be all the trend of the media comments.

Paul Dempsey was almost having an orgasm every time an Irish player closed down the opposition which apparently was unheard of under Trap despite Robbie putting pressure on a centre back and scoring against Slovakia from his weak back-pass.

Good news from that game was we didn't lose and Wilson did the business at centre-half. McCarthy continues to grow in the team.
Bad news - none really except we didn't look like scoring and Walters is not a winger.

Otherwise a game to filed away in the statistics locker.

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I'm not one that actually thinks a rejuvenation is required. McGeady has been good for us imo over the last 4 or 5 years. No doubt he has more in his locker but I am more of a supporter than knocker and think his performances and what he brings to the table have been under appreciated by some/most. Anyway, Ill take the bite - I watched on a fairly crappy stream but I actually thought McGeady put in some decent crosses last night. The Paul Green headed chance was a McG cross. The whipped in cross to Wilson on the edge of the box who flicked it inside and it went just beyond Robbie on the backpost are just two examples I can think of. I certainly cant think of (m)any under hit crosses or crosses that didnt beat the first man etc....

There were a couple of really poor free kicks alright but I completely agree with you overall. He's cool on the ball and makes defenders think, sounds basic enough but we don't have any other player who really does that. He's often doubled up on, making his own contribution limited at times but frees up space for others. I'm a big fan overall bar the obvious frustrations.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

i keep hearing this but in 15 games how many goals were his fault?

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So because he has got away with his countless miscues from back passes, so far, we have no reason to worry? My point was that it can't do much to help create a confident defence. I like Forde by the way and I think he has done well for us for the most part but I'd feel safer with Westwood.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think it was telling that Westwood was given the easier game though. Forde still has it for me.

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You could be right that Forde is No.1 but I'd dispute the logic... is it telling that Coleman or O'Shea started the easier game?

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Originally Posted by geysir

. Amongst the positives was a readiness amongst the players to support each other and when a mistake was made or a player getting boxed in, more often than not there was support available.
Playing the ball out of our box, passing it on the ground is still a difficult concept when there is some pressing from the opposition.

When McClean sent that ball across the goalmouth, anybody think it was tailor made for Robbie who might have anticipated the whole move and tapped the ball in?

It won't take a brain surgeon of a coach to figure out that Forde's distribution of the ball under pressure is haphazard and every team we play will be under instructions to put him under maximum pressure. His distribution has been poor since his first cap at Lansdowne (against Poland?) where he had to show just how good of a goalie he was to save the situation.
If he's better than Westwood, then fair enough and I suppose the decision would depend a lot on McDonagh's advice who knows about these things.

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I put in bold the only real things to take from the game, the core difference was that players supported eachother in tight spaces so the necessity to hoof it forward wasn't required - I still don't understand what Trap was playing at here, hoping to catch on the counter-attack with players not suited to that game or not able to play it. We also harried and pressurised rather than sitback which was another positive, obviously against certain opposition who can counter quickly we need to be wary of this, but they were the 2 main positives I took from the game.

I've seen Robbie get too far forward or fall too far behind for as many of those type crosses that he has scored.

I actually think Fordes kicking is awful, but that's not what worries me most about him. I think his positioning(not for high balls) and agility to get down low, fast and quick is quite poor.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I

I actually think Fordes kicking is awful, but that's not what worries me most about him. I think his positioning(not for high balls) and agility to get down low, fast and quick is quite poor.

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Forde can get down but you say he can't get down fast enough, regardless of measuring the nanosecond involved, it would be very difficult for an opposition to exploit that one.
Whereas it's relatively straightforward for the opposition to keep pressurising him when he has the ball at his feet in the box, to force him into a mistake.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

2 hours once a week and 3 weeks of the summer at 33 he should have eradicated this. Place out markers to him, roll the ball back fast and aim for the markers. I cannot understand for the life of me even if he played LOI very long that he can't master this. IT is not an innate ability, its a learned skill.

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You don't think Forde - an international goalkeeper - isn't aware of that? Or hasn't had that coached into him? Of course not. He obviously has worked on aspects of this game, and he certainly isn't negligent or lazy as you've suggested. If he hasn't mastered it, it isn't for lack of work or coaching. And, besides, he has gained ability - he was a lot worse with ball at feet in his Derry days. Improved kicking is learned, but eradicating it completely is not.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

No, infact looking back i think he probably could have done a bit better on a few other occassions as well.

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So could every keeper when you hold a microscope over them. Every player in fact. Not to say you shouldn't get forensic but, in context, Forde's performances put him in credit for me.

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Originally Posted by geysir

His distribution has been poor since his first cap at Lansdowne (against Poland?) where he had to show just how good of a goalie he was to save the situation. If he's better than Westwood, then fair enough and I suppose the decision would depend a lot on McDonagh's advice who knows about these things.

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To combine a response to both POS and Geysir: I do think if he's to continue as first choice, management should look to work on this and spur him on. I'd particularly like him to quicken up. Away from home or under the cosh, it's fine to take your time over a kick.

But Forde's actually got a decent throw on him, and occasionally looks to use it - but almost always decides against it, as if it's too risky. Maybe this is a Trap hangover, maybe it's a lack of confidence. But ideally in future we'll look to build play from the back, with defenders/DM's dropping deep to pick up a short pass from the goalie.

This would suit Forde better - at Derry, Kenny looked to play short from the back all the time. But he has to be encouraged to step back from safe long option. And the team has to be dominant enough (most likely at home) to get plenty of time and space in the backline.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

So because he has got away with his countless miscues from back passes, so far, we have no reason to worry? My point was that it can't do much to help create a confident defence.

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Swings and roundabouts? Forde dominates his area better, I'm sure the centre halves love that and are more confident defending balls into the box because of it.

I think everyone has reason to worry about it, but, likewise, Westwood has had his moments in the past and in context Forde's done well. However bets will be off if Westwood can continue his promising form into next March.