Leave me out of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Anyway, we haven't got the players.
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Leave me out of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Anyway, we haven't got the players.
I don't think anybody is really settling for this shambles of a campaign Paul. We're in the top two or in the running for qualification up until the end of the campaigns more often than not... certainly as often as most of those other countries you mentioned.
I suspect if we replaced Iceland in their group this time round we'd still be in with a shout as well.
Slovenia couldn't manage to finish ahead of Estonia in their last campaign... a team we were so "fortunate" to have met in the seeded playoffs.
Montenegro are pretty much out of contention in their group, barring something fairly radical.
Bosnia are looking good to be fair... of course you would probably have sacked their manager after conceding six to Portugal in the Euro playoffs.
Not sure why you're mentioning me here. You seem to reckon the Championship is better than La Liga or something and I appear to have offended you by saying otherwise at some point.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
I think it's redundant to be comparing Ireland to other teams and how they're getting on. I'd wager that the majority of us haven't seen them play at all, know nothing of their coaches and all the other variables. Maybe Slovenia have their equivalent of Stan in charge. Maybe Montenegro got done by a fluky decision in a key game. Maybe a star player is quarreling with the manager. Etc. etc. You know what I'm getting at.
Are you sure?Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Thats pretty much what I was about to post. Paul, stop getting your knickers in a twist - it was a shocking campaign. We need to write it off and move on. More often than not we are in the mix, its always going to be difficult to win a group outright or even win a seeded playoff over two legs but we are usually up there as one of the sides in with a shout.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Older posters? Maybe just wiser......
Well radical was probably a bit strong. They'll probably need to win at Wembley to get a playoff spot. They're in the mix in fairness (on further examination) but I'd be very surprised to see anything other than an England-Ukraine top 2, not necessarily in that order. What I was getting at is that I wouldn't be overly jealous of their recent past.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I think it has to be accepted that no matter what qual group we were in for WC 2014, we would not have done much better. A little better perhaps but not much. Our style of play had already run its course towards redundancy before these qualifiers.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
No the premiership.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I meant that the premiership is in the top 2 if not the top league in the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
I wish it was, unfortunately like where I work they don't offer much experience either :)
At the end of the day people are happy with things to go on to the detriment of qualification or even improvement(whether it be how we play or where we finish or results), thinking experience or something else will see us through when it doesn't or that someone almost has a divine right to go right until its too late.
It's in the top three. Not sure what relevance this has to anything though.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
In fairness to Paul I think he was taking a swipe at those who accept our fate because "we don't have the players" or the occasional wise owl who prefers the devil he knows, despite knowing his faults, and who thinks there's no merit in discussing anything other than plain old 442 and hoofball.
Why do want to be fair to Paul?
Let him take the punches, he can 'man-up' can't he?
I'm not sure. He challenged me to a game of badminton last week.
Understood.
Table-tennis tomorrow stutts if you are up for it.
I have a good feeling about Friday.
CD you said it was the third behind bundesliga and Spain.flavour of the month with posters on here regards the leagues but that's what you said. You added something about mid table Spanish beating mid table premiership I doubted it and at the time it was possible to prove.I think Swansea winning 3-0 refutes your assertion.
It could be worse after the next time round.
Just seen this in some Facebook group.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportblade...cle17626183.ab
As the original poster says...
Sorry its in Swedish, but couldn't find an English source for this. It basically lays out a proposal already on the table at UEFA for a UEFA Nations League, which would replace the Euro's. This would comprise of 9 leagues, each spanning over 2 years, with relegation and promotion at the end of each 'season'.
To put it into perspective, these would be the leagues (according to current rankings)
Division 1: Spain, Germany, Holland, Italy, England, Portugal
Division 2: Russia, Greece, Croatia, Sweden, France, Bosnia-Herzegovina
Division 3: Ukraine, Denmark, Switzerland, Belgium, Hungary, Czech Republic
Division 4: Ireland, Serbia, Norway, Slovakia, Turkey, Israel
Division 5: Slovenia, Austria, Romania, Montenegro, Poland, Finland
Division 6: Scotland, Armenia, Bulgaria, Latvia, Estonia, Belarus
Division 7: Wales, Northern Ireland, Albania, Iceland, Lithuania, Macedonia
Division 8: Georgia, Moldavia, Azerbaijan, Luxembourg, Cyprus, Kazakhstan
Division 9: Liechtenstein, Faroe Islands, Malta, Andorra, San Marino, Gibraltar
To me, this would be an absolute travesty! I've heard people arguing that countries losing 7-0 to Germany shouldn't be in the same competition as them, and it would be more fair to put similar teams together. In my opinion this is bull****. Yes, smaller teams will get the occasional thrashing and even be completely outplayed for the whole qualifying, but you've seen many countries rise from those lows to actually challenge the big boys.
Putting the smaller nations in these leagues would make it impossible for a team like Iceland, Armenia and even Poland to ever 'win' the European Championships. Yes you'd get the occasional team rising through the ranks, but don't forget; these competitions would take 2 years to finish. Therefore it would take Iceland 12 years to 'sky rocket' into the Premier League (as I'm sure it'll develop into).
Now of course this hasn't been passed, and many stupid plans have been denied through the years, but I am genuinely afraid that something like this will become a reality in the coming decades.
Sorry for this insane post, but I need to hear that people agree with me (or at least argue with those who don't) to put my mind in some rest at least...
http://www.facebook.com/TryggviK?hc_location=stream
That will never come to fruiton. It's so stupid.
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-conte...an-shocked.gif
Hmm, you're probably right...
We'll see in seven years time, perhaps?
What a cast-iron source.
Also, that article, from Google translate, seems to indicate this idea would replace friendly fixtures, not Euro qualifiers and the Euro's themselves.
Which it won't of course.
Don't tell me you are also one of the silly Daily Sun type readers who haven't a clue about spanish league football, who select the travails of one spanish team and use that as proof of the demise of Spanish football, proving that all those here who like Spanish football are prematurely ejaculating morons who haven't a clue about real football, poke fun at them for reading other larger papers with more words in them, suggesting that the poor spanish football loving morons might in fact be brainwashed by the Guardian.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Did anyone say it was?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
:rolleyes:
Though UEFA/FIFA become more gormless with every passing year.
Well Stutts if you are going to step in as Pauls beeatchhh (or even spin doctor?)- Are there many (if any) posters on here who have just accepted our fate of this last campaign based on the above? Has anyone ever posted "there is no merit in discussing different formations? I dont think so. There are elements in what you say that I consider valid points but not to the extent of blind defeatism and acceptance of mediocrity.Revisionism....Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
At what point should Trap have been fired then?
A- Before the play off defeat to France?
B- Before we qualified for the Euro's?
C- After the poor showing in Poland?
D-After the 1-6 defeat to Germany, which was followed by credible away results and performances v Faroes 4-1 and Sweden 0-0 ?
E- After the 2-2 draw versus Austria?
F- After the double header defeat to Sweden at home and Austria away?
On reflection perhaps point C was the time for him to go. I didnt think so at the time despite the disappointment after the Euros. However, once he was kept on for another campaign I dont see when he should have gone any earlier than when he did. Posslbly at point E but it was all fairly marginal at that point and a home victory versus Sweden could have made a difference to the campaing - even if it was only papering over the cracks. He went after the next games anyway. Lets not forget the financial implications of getting rid of Trap mid campaign either (whether we like it or not Im certain that was a factor in any of the Board discussions regarding Traps role).
On a positive note, I really hope Noel's teams have a good go over the next couple of games - nothing to lose and the fans need something now to get excited about.
If I said that perhaps I was being hyperbolic. Certainly mid-table La Liga sides are technically superior to their EPL counterparts in general. Swansea beat a Valencia team in financial and on-field crisis after they'd have a player sent off within 8 minutes. It's hardly indicative of the leagues' relative strengths.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
With a €3m payoff I presume?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Up to the FAI & O'Brien. And call his bluff, too. Never mind the morons who signed off that extension at that price...
A small price anyway, maybe to avoid alienating 'the wider Irish soccer public' ?
But he's gone now anyway.
The clue was in the term "wise owl"! Yes, I think there have been some who have laughed off manager change / tactical change as fantasy talk or suggesting that we'd be the new Wales if we did. Most here have been pretty clear in the criticism of the campaign, but there have been more than a few who found it hard to be overly critical of Trap. Quite a few even thought we played well against Austria in Dublin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
Regarding the other question: I'd have probably kept him on after C, on balance, and I was very disillusioned after D but still would have resisted making the call if it was my decision (though I wouldn't have been unhappy if he had gone then), but I was apoplectic after E and felt that he had to go then. I was also apoplectic that Trap ignored the lessons from a good showing in Stockholm.
I had no confidence at all after Austria at home that what we needed to do at home to Sweden would be done. I was hopeful as all fans probably are, but not expectant.
You say that like it's a fact that they're wrong. I was definitely one of those. We were excellent in the first half in my opinion. I don't have a problem with it being down to attitude and tempo more than guile. I remember your views on the performance, which you're more than entitled to but not necessarily right. Nor does somebody believing we played well mean they are finding it difficult to be critical of Trap. I thought we looked like we had goals in us in that first half, especially, more so than the Sweden away match. We might not have looked as tidy and kept the ball as well but we were far more threatening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I can't remember the moment that we retreated into ultimate submission but there was plenty to be annoyed about from that point forward, and plenty of blame attributed to the manager who did worse than nothing to stem the tide. Literally worse than nothing.
Without going back over old posts in the forum 'The new Wales' type comments (and I didnt make them) may have been based on what type of manager we would get in as a replacement. TBH, I was always (incorrectly as it happens) of the opinion that the next manager would be on a package which was a fraction of Traps and hence the quality of candidate would be severly lacking - something that could have seen a repeat of the Staunton type era. I don't know, its all if's but and maybe's at the moment but we'll have to wait and see out the new guy pans out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Our 2nd half performance against the Austrians was a disaster. I read a few comments suggesting we were unlucky to concede so late but that is all I recall - I think almost everyone to a man, accepted that the equaliser was inevitable. If you recall posters suggesting we played well, then fair enough I dont doubt you - It was hard reading this forum in the aftermath of that result :(
So that pretty much mirrors my thoughts exactly. If I had the decision to make it was borderline to do it after E (but little point at that stage) and certainly after point F.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
So I dont get where this view (from Paul) is that some of our supporters are happy to accept being rubbish. A few wanted to give Trap a bit longer than the majority of fans, thats about it......
To be fair at point C he intimated there would be changes in the make up of the team as he acknowledged Euro 2012 wasnt a success. He talked about players like McClean and McCarthy allowing us to see if we could "change the system" (or words to that effect). Obviously it didn't pan out that way, we just ended up with the rigid system with some of our better players (Duff, Given) leaving, but back in the summer of 2012 he was making noises about changing the approach.
The other question to ask (at any of the stages, A to F) is who would we have got in. Even when people on this forum were clamouring for him to go after Kazakhstan (or it might have been Germany) there wasn't really a big list of viable candidates, even now there still isn't that much to chose from. At least at the end of a campaign there are in theory more options available - in 1-2 months there could be the likes of Hodgson, Terim, Morten Olsen, Paolo Bento, Deschamps, Tabarez, Fernando Santos available - all of them have done well at international tournaments with unfancied teams (although with Bento and Deschamps its with clubs in the CL rather than countries).
DeLorean, I hope you know that I rarely say anyone is wrong when I don't agree with him. I never say that I am right either, though by definition I almost always think I'm right! We all think we're right. But all it ever is is an opinion.
Unlike your opinion, I thought we were all huff and puff in the first half at home to Austria, but it was purposeful huff and puff and we played on the front foot and at times at a high tempo. In that sense it was a pleasant change, but coming so soon after an away performance where we played in a controlled and effective manner I thought it was a big step backwards.
Junior, you still think I might be talking about you. You're not actually that old anyway. I did offer you a clue by saying "wise owl". I'll make it even more clear. Take away the word "wise". You're left with "owl". Now add an "s" and the word "fan". That's who I think Paul was referring to.
Anyway, Paul can defend himself from now on.
To be fair to the FAI, the deal was 'if you get us qualified, we will extend your contract'Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
And that's often the way it goes with these contract.s If you hit the targets we set, you get a contract extension.
Germany drubbing was followed by credible performances and it may have been unfair to sack him until it was plainly obvious it had to happen after Sweden and Austria.
We were all very very hopeful with half an hour gone in the Sweden game.
An hour later everyone wanted him out.
EURO 2012 was a disaster and we were all pretty sick of Trap's system by then.
But until that point he had succeeded in hitting his targets
Have people only just noticed he got the sack...
:rolleyes:
Oh dont worry Stutts, I got the Owl reference and I didnt think you (or Paul for that matter) were really referring to me. So thats it then, Paul got his knickers in a twist because one poster was a more staunch supporter of Trap than seemed reasonable. If only he had put it that way and we could have saved ourselves some typing.
Anyway, Im sure he's finished in the Jacks by now and can come back and see the anguish he has caused ;)
Of course, and I know you don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
This just reads to me like you're saying that some people only thought we played well because they didn't want to criticise Trap, or something similar. I think most people can separate the good from the bad regardless of personal affinities or indifferences.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
The jist of some commentary was that criticism of Trap was futile because we might get worse. That's like not dumping the girlfriend you've grown tired of in case the next one is worse. There was also a fair bit of sophistry thrown in wrt formations.
Anyway, I thought Andy Reid's comments in all the papers today was interesting. He says all the Irish players have experience of playing in different shapes and formations anyway. As has been argued here before, it's not about the formations anyway, but about the players and the type of players picked.
The Guardian have now got an article up about this international league. Can't put it up because I'm using my mobile.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/...gue-friendliesQuote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982