Incredible to think Andy has 30 caps - he's pretty unlikely to get any more.
Pretty simple - Trap has often thought of Keogh as an extra wing option. Now he's got McGeady, McClean, Brady and Pilkington - not to mention Walters and Cox to play out there. Moreover he's got a whole bunch of strikers.
That's international football. Just ask Kevin Kilbane, Liam Lawrence, Stephen Ward, Kevin Doyle etc etc.
Tbf, Trap could be gone after the next 2 games?
Keogh clarifies his position: https://twitter.com/andykeogh16/stat...44404460007424
It might have been courteous but he's till too expectant. Trap has given Keogh plenty of time and opportunity; there's absolutely no requirement for him to further phone up or text every player he's ever selected in the past to let them know he's not considering them for selection on this occasion.Quote:
Not moaning bout bein left out jus gutted, lot of quality in the squad,maybe after Oman and NY a txt or phone call wud of been courteous !!
I am loath to restart something that has been discussed ad nauseum here, but I really dislike the way that players find out these things under Trap. Not getting a place happens, but its good to let players know why, and how they could get a place back.
Instead, another bridge set on fire, if not totally burned just yet.
Who else should he have texted/phoned? Keith Treacy? Conor Clifford?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
He could, but I can't seen another manager giving Keogh too many opportunities.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
I suspect Trap views this idea with the same kind of incredulous 'this is our job, we're very lucky, we don't have to go down a mine!' style attitude with which he often addresses player gripes.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
I'm inclined to agree with you, although how common would it be for an international manager to reach out to dropped players? If Roy Hodgson left out Gareth Barry, say, would he phone him to explain or would he expect the player just to understand that's how things go, and they'll have another look next time?
Game has changed since Trap's time - so many avenues of communication, so many ways to at least just reach out to a player and say 'thanks - but this time you're not there. Next time maybe'. Perhaps that's the modern way now - players are more accustomed to two-way communication and it's not like Trap has to light a candle, grab a quill and scribble an earnest letter. It seems another exhibit in the 'Trap is out of touch' trial.
Still the bottom line is Keogh doesn't deserve to be in the squad and, when it comes to loyalty, Trap has been exceedingly forgiving to a guy who is fairly limited. Bang in a few goals for Millwall and, if he's still out in the cold, have a good old moan then.
Don't rate Keogh much myself but I don't think it is too much trouble to inform the couple of players who are dropped that they are not in the next squad.
In fairness to Keogh, he played against Wales this month. Bit different to letting Joe Lapira know that he's not getting in the squad again.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Ha, well, Lapira would be at the other end of the extreme, but where exactly would this expectation for the provision of explanations to previously-selected players begin and end?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Well, imo, if you were in the last squad you deserve to be told that you're not in the new one by text at least. It'd take an FAI lackey about 10 minutes to make a list of who is now out and to get a group text thing going to just inform those players that they haven't made it but are still in the manager's thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
What does it matter how you find out? You find out when the squad is announced or an hour before in a private phone call? Honestly what is the difference?
Hmm, I suppose that seems like a reasonable cut-off point; if you've not been selected for the current squad after having been selected in the immediate one previous to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yard of Pace
Will that be the case though? Why bother filling some players with false hope? And won't players expect a personal explanation from Trap? Will a generic text from an FAI automaton actually satisfy them? Judging the tone of Keogh's original tweet, you'd think he was trying to suggest he was an indispensable member of the squad.Quote:
It'd take an FAI lackey about 10 minutes to make a list of who is now out and to get a group text thing going to just inform those players that they haven't made it but are still in the manager's thoughts.
Courtesy, apparently. Although I'm not sure how well Keogh's demand for courtesy stands up in light of his sarcastic tweet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
When I read your post it struck me that our EPL standard CBs are in the Championship and that, O'Shea excepted, our championship standard CBs are on the EPL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I think we've a solid enough bunch of CBs but I think it's fair to say we don't have a top class CB at the top of his game anymore.
Re-goalkeepers I'm happy enough with our options. Forde seems to be inspired by the jersey and brings a presence to aerial situations that we haven't had since Bonner in the late 80s, and is tidy enough all round. Westwood is probably a sharper and more agile shot stopper, but looks lost at crosses lately. Maybe that's lack of matches, but it concerns me.
In Gdansk I watched the 3 keepers in their pre match warm ups very closely. Shay had developed an alarming habit of fisting shots that were straight at him, which he repeated for Spain's second ( or third?) goal. Westwood seemed sharpest at getting down to low stingers and Forde seemed slowest down of the 3.
While I think Forde deserves to keep his spot I'd be very cautious about playing a rusty keeper into these games, so it's great for us that Westwood is starting for Sunderland at the moment.
I think Keogh deserved a polite call on the basis that he was with us for the last few games. 'Sorry Richard, but Dunne is back fit, keep playing well' would have done it. I think the same applies to anyone dropped from a squad but not to anyone expecting a call but who hasn't been involved recently.
Effing twitter though. It gives reason to amplify things beyond their actual importance.
Edit: sorry, I thought it was Richard Keogh! Same principle applies though
Jaysis, if Trap was going to entertain players like this, he would at least need to be sure he's texting the right Keogh first! Now you see how problematic such a practice could be. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Footballers these days give off such an aura of entitlement and preciousness... man up FFS!
Remember the media stir after Trap did actually text Kevin Doyle to inform him of his omission from the squad for the previous Sweden and Austria games?: http://balls.ie/football/kevin-doyle-text-message/
Most of the meedya that will be reporting on Irish team over next fortnight will be GAA heads/rugger buggers with an axe to grind against the "foreign game" and by god they'll take all that crap out on Trappatoni's management. Its already started and squad haven't convened yet!
the problem is Twitter more than the footballers. It gives an outlet for stream-of-consciousness communication and now the media will be all over this as if its some sort of disaster. "Footballer a bit upset but not that much really" is the story here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grafter
Edit: just saw that he was only a late replacement for Wales squad so Keogh must have guessed his place was precarious, in which case he probably is being a bit precious. Then again, as I say, Twitter amplifies things out of all proportion especially when it gives the Irish sports media a reason to take a swipe at our football team.
Some of the comments under the RTE story make foot.ie look like an elite university debating society.
Yep. Also "Footballer really wants to play for his country". I like that in an era of players retiring from international football in their 20s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Irish Times headline runs "Keogh questions Trapattoni over selection procedures". By tomorrow this will have turned into a full scale player strike among my rugby friends!
Twitter provides a forum for the publication of opinions and information of dubious newsworthiness that otherwise would not have been made publicly known and, therefore, not afforded further media exposure or public recognition. As you highlight, it confers upon such expressions an air of significance that would not have been enjoyed prior to the existence of social media. We live in an information age, however.
It's actually true, whenever I want to feel superior I read RTE comments section:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
On twitter, think Keogh tweeted that comment at half ten and in sports chat on Radio 1 at 11am it was the lead soccer story... bit ironic how Gibson chirped into the conversation with his two cents as well.
If anyone actually wants to read anything meaningful about the Sweden game The Examiner has actually decided to report on the match, Trap's thoughts on Dunne, Brady and Coleman and generally interesting stuff. Shame on them for breaking ranks like that!
http://examiner.ie/sport/soccer/trap...ng-241023.html
Trap needs to get on Twitter; might be the quickest way to get a response to his communication attempts from Gibson!Quote:
Originally Posted by Grafter
As an international football manager, you're looking at a pool of maybe 30 - 35 players who are likely to be selected at any one time. There's always going to be a core group of players who are always going to make the squad, but I'd say each one of those players reckons they have a decent shot of making the squad, and each one is going to be disappointed if they don't. You pick 23 players, the question is, what's the etiquette around notifying some or all of the 12 or so players who don't make the squad? The basic ground rules need to be:
1. Not every player needs to be told every time that they're not in a squad.
2. If you picked a player in the previous squad and have decided to not pick them this time, you need to call them and tell them.
3. When you call them, give them a reason as to why they're not in your squad. "You're not being picked for your club". "I've gone for a more physical side this time around". Whatever.
4. You don't need to keep ringing that player for every squad after that.
5. Texting is not appropriate. It's too open to misinterpretation and it's asynchronous. A 5 minute call will inform the player and give them a chance to ask questions and save the inevitable back and forth that texting causes.
If you follow those rules, players know where they stand. They know they'll get a call one way or another having been involved in the previous squad. They're not going to take to Twitter and spout shîte. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask a manager to spend 20 minutes making calls to previously involved players.
An Andy Keogh tweet makes it to headline news?
You're kidding, right??
sadly, noQuote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I think a phone call is more awkward than anything for the player tbh. I would rather just find out and not have to do any heavy breathing. I mean what do you try to do, lobby some FAI employee? So well um...did Trap say why? Ask if you can talk to Paola? And what if the guy doesnt pick up, like Gibson, and you leave a message? Do you call again to make sure he got it? Bit like a Seinfeld episode.
Keogh should count his blessings.
At this stage who cares, it's all a mess and we're just waiting for Trap to jump ship.
:(
Trap has more than a few old communist strains in his Opus Dei blood, considering his praise of the noble proleterian art of workmanlike football having such great value, over and above genius.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
“Some players sing, while others carry the cross,” he said. “You must go and work. Creative players don’t usually have this habit as they only play violin.
“Brady is creative but Sweden have a right-back [Martin] Lustig who is like Coleman. If you don’t run back, he will go and make a cross.”
Lustig's form is hot or luke warm, depends on his fitness/injuries, lately he's just putting in a string of average shifts. But even at his best, he'll not offer a special threat, at least not anything any Irish midfield player hasn't seen before or cannot cope with.
Lustig isn't great but surely if he has an inch he can put in a good cross, and Zlatan is about eight feet tall. Still, I doubt Walters' defensive capabilities are above Brady's.
The dangerous cross threat is great in theory but a good cross from open play is a rare sight.
Our central defenders are more likely to be able to deal with that sort of thing than a crafty Zlatan and his one man show, picking up the ball around the D, passing to himself, then picking up the return from himself, before nonchalantly flicking the ball into the top corner with his little toe, from 20 metres.
As long as this kid is in front we will be fine.
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...GrhkXk9iH860wZ
Swedish squad announced: http://svenskfotboll.se/arkiv/landsl...upp-september/
translated: http://translate.google.com/translat...rupp-september
"But to Norway Collection was a bit different conditions. Then, with Rasmus. Now is not available Rasmus and then I think Kim will be here."Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
That sounds like Trap speaking.
Rasmus will no doubt be tweeting his displeasure about this perceived slight.
I believe that Trap passed away a number of years ago and what we've been seeing is the first prototype Google-translate using, "Foreign Manager With Many Honours-bot", which has been utilized in this case by the hitherto useless Marco Tardelli. This bot values workrate stats and loyalty stats above any other football-related assets and will continue, hell-bent, and not for turning until his software is terminated by the organization which currently own the copyright. In this case, Denis O'Brien, the billionaire tyrant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Or we're all just fictional computer sprites in a game of Football Manager, in which the player controlling Trap has chosen to 'go on holiday' for several years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yard of Pace
http://i.imgur.com/pZLjI.png